[bamarammin87]

Originally Posted by soulless

anyone use a .17 hmr handgun? i think 17 hmr will do more damage than a .22 lr

I've never used one but I always wanted one. Theyre awesome, but the bullet is half the weight so idk how it does on people compared to a .22.

[soulless]

Originally Posted by Midnmax

with this, you can take out 100's of BGs in seconds..minutes..

[soulless]

Originally Posted by bamarammin87

I've never used one but I always wanted one. Theyre awesome, but the bullet is half the weight so idk how it does on people compared to a .22.

half the weight.. yes, but you should try shooting both and compare the damage.

I have a 22LR rifle and 17 hmr rifle. All using hallow points and the 17 HMR does a lot more damage. I remember shooting a fox squirrel in the torso and took it in half... The 22LR is a lot weaker compared to the 17 hmr. check out the videos on youtube.com. You will see the 17 hmr tearing up small games like nothing.. it's actually an overkill for small games. I can easily take out foxes and coyotes with it too. Shoot a deer in the head and it will be a goner...

Some people argued with me that a 17hmr cannot kill a person effectively... Sure, maybe not, but i'm pretty positive a shot to the head will do it... the 17 hmr rifle is scary accurate..if it fails, i have my glock 27 and 12 guage 00 buck shot..

17 hmr = 2300+ FPS
22 LR = 1000-1200 FPS, i believe..

[bamarammin87]

Originally Posted by soulless

half the weight.. yes, but you should try shooting both and compare the damage.

I have a 22LR rifle and 17 hmr rifle. All using hallow points and the 17 HMR does a lot more damage. I remember shooting a fox squirrel in the torso and took it in half... The 22LR is a lot weaker compared to the 17 hmr. check out the videos on youtube.com. You will see the 17 hmr tearing up small games like nothing.. it's actually an overkill for small games. I can easily take out foxes and coyotes with it too. Shoot a deer in the head and it will be a goner...

Some people argued with me that a 17hmr cannot kill a person effectively... Sure, maybe not, but i'm pretty positive a shot to the head will do it... the 17 hmr rifle is scary accurate..if it fails, i have my glock 27 and 12 guage 00 buck shot..

17 hmr = 2300+ FPS
22 LR = 1000-1200 FPS, i believe..

i know the facts on it, just don't know about the people. My savage 93r-17 is my favorite rifle (after my AK) and I have shot SEVERAL coyotes and quite a few squirells, and a couple possums with it, and steel plating too. I believe the standard load is 2550 fps from hornady too btw. I just don't know how well it'd do thru clothing and in a person. It just about shot thru plating tho! I love that cartridge. Its too much for shooting squirrels tho if you dn't hit them in the head. It blows their legs off sometimes, and leaves the bottm half of their body hanging by a thread. I like the hollowpoints even better tho, I gotta find my pics of the damage it does to coyotes, because I always hit them in the neck. I'm sure it would kill a person, just don't know its effectiveness on people compared to a .22. Most criminals and thugs don't know what a .17 is

[bamarammin87]

My .17 only gun I use coyote hunting (my passion) even if some think its too small for it. I get laughed at by other coyote hunters when I tell them I only use a .17. They should try it themselves tho, even if they don't drop, they'l drop very soon if you make a good shot. It's just getting too dang high to shoot!

[Porkchop]

Originally Posted by soulless

half the weight.. yes, but you should try shooting both and compare the damage.

I have a 22LR rifle and 17 hmr rifle. All using hallow points and the 17 HMR does a lot more damage. I remember shooting a fox squirrel in the torso and took it in half... The 22LR is a lot weaker compared to the 17 hmr. check out the videos on youtube.com. You will see the 17 hmr tearing up small games like nothing.. it's actually an overkill for small games. I can easily take out foxes and coyotes with it too. Shoot a deer in the head and it will be a goner...

Some people argued with me that a 17hmr cannot kill a person effectively... Sure, maybe not, but i'm pretty positive a shot to the head will do it... the 17 hmr rifle is scary accurate..if it fails, i have my glock 27 and 12 guage 00 buck shot..

17 hmr = 2300+ FPS
22 LR = 1000-1200 FPS, i believe..

totally agree.a head shot or a shot through the neck would no doubt end a humans life.I know i wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of a 17hmr

[cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by PAPACHUCK

I don't, but, I think a 4-6" .22WMR with 40-50gr.HP would probably do the job. Maybe a Grendel P30 if it could be made reliable.

Even with CCI Stingers or Velocitors, I believe the .22LR isn't quite up to the task.

just my .02

You'll never make the Grendel P-30 reliable, but there are a number of decent .22WMR revolvers out there, including an 8-shooter from Taurus.

[Texas357]

Originally Posted by cloudbuster

You'll never make the Grendel P-30 reliable, but there are a number of decent .22WMR revolvers out there, including an 8-shooter from Taurus.

I've talked to several Grendel owners who say the gun is 100% reliable, but very ammo-specific, i.e. it only likes one load from one mfr.

I think they should bring back the concept, keep the magazine size, but in .22LR, and tuned for bulk ammo.

[cloudbuster]

Originally Posted by Texas357

I've talked to several Grendel owners who say the gun is 100% reliable, but very ammo-specific, i.e. it only likes one load from one mfr.

I think they should bring back the concept, keep the magazine size, but in .22LR, and tuned for bulk ammo.

I've never owned a Grendel, but I own an AMT Automag II and it is definitely very, very ammo-specific (Winchester Super-X .22 Magnum) and having had years of experience with it, I take any claims of 100% reliability from P-30 owners with a grain of salt. The dimensions of the cartridge are just really poor for an autoloading handgun. And Grendel made notoriously shabby product. If you check around forums, the P-30 is widely regarded as a jammomatic.

But, an 8-round wheelgun is gonna be reliable. You want reliable in a .22WMR handgun, that's what you need to be going with. You want high-capacity, get rid of that sissy pistol and get yourself a Glock

BTW, I also had a Magnum Research Mountain Eagle .22LR pistol which was in fact very similar to the P-30 but took high-cap (20-round) .22LR magazines. It was actually pretty darn reliable, and used a constant-tension leaf spring, but it had all-plastic magazines and when it was killed as a product by the Clinton-era gun bans, the magazines became impossilbe to find. I dumped mine after the first time I had one of my magazine's plastic feed lips break. The same gun with a metal-sleaved magazine (and a couple other key parts done in metal that were regrettably plastic) would have been pretty sweet.

[OVERTHEHILLGUY]

As James Bond would say...."I always shoot them in the right eye and I never miss". OVERTHEHILLGUY

[James Markov]

Originally Posted by soulless

with this, you can take out 100's of BGs in seconds..minutes..

Is that a .22 Minigun? Do you have a video link?

[vafish]

Originally Posted by soulless

half the weight.. yes, but you should try shooting both and compare the damage.

I have a 22LR rifle and 17 hmr rifle. All using hallow points and the 17 HMR does a lot more damage. I remember shooting a fox squirrel in the torso and took it in half... The 22LR is a lot weaker compared to the 17 hmr. check out the videos on youtube.com. You will see the 17 hmr tearing up small games like nothing.. it's actually an overkill for small games. I can easily take out foxes and coyotes with it too. Shoot a deer in the head and it will be a goner...

Some people argued with me that a 17hmr cannot kill a person effectively... Sure, maybe not, but i'm pretty positive a shot to the head will do it... the 17 hmr rifle is scary accurate..if it fails, i have my glock 27 and 12 guage 00 buck shot..

17 hmr = 2300+ FPS
22 LR = 1000-1200 FPS, i believe..

.17 HMR does 2,550 fps from a rifle. But from a short handgun barrel does much less. Down around 1,000 fps IIRC. NAA used to have some ballistics data up on their web site, but it looks like they don't make the .17 Mini's anymore.

.22 LR drops down to about 700 fps from a short handgun barrel.

But the .22 bullet weighs more than twice the .17 HMR and will penetrate much deeper.

Out of a short barreled handgun I'll take a .22 LR over a .17 HMR any day.

Out of a rifle I'll take the .17 HMR over the .22 LR and .22 mag.

[James Markov]

I picked up a Walther P22 with a 3.5 inch barrel(I believe) and wow what a fun gun...

[Dan]

Originally Posted by James Markov

Anybody use a .22 revolver?

I own a S&W 317 Kit Gun, but not my home defense gun.

[fuji]

Okay here I go. I just picked up a lever action Henry. 22lr and it is slick as ____ if you ever get the chance to handle one it will come home with you.
My point is I can pump out 16 rounds and hold the zero just fine. Fast fire and you can still put them in the black even with the open sights. So the moral is I would have no problem sinking all those shots with a lever action and open no fancy sights.

I do not like to keep a loaded gun in the house so I do not use it for home defense but thought about it a lot. I know if someone broke in it would more than hurt.

Joe

Damn I have the G 27 in the night stand. I guess I lost my own argument. Why did I post. lol

[mac66]

Man, long thread. This thing started 2 years ago.

[paperairplane]

Originally Posted by Porkchop

...I know i wouldnt want to be on the receiving end of a 17hmr

What cartridge would you want to be on the receiving end of...?

I mean, I guess if I really had to pick something to get shot (modern cartridge) - maybe .22LR w/ rat shot...

He11 - I've been shot with a pellet gun, didn't like that much.

[James Markov]

Originally Posted by mac66

Man, long thread. This thing started 2 years ago.

Yea, but the concept is still a valid one-economically priced guns/ammo for defensive purposes. And the .22 rimfire fits that description...

[Cross-X]

Unless you have a physical disability, a .22 as a primary self-defense weapon is a joke.

[wjv]

Originally Posted by Cross-X

Unless you have a physical disability, a .22 as a primary self-defense weapon is a joke.

Horse****. . .

Worked in an ER/Trauma Center. Worked on a Ambulance. Saw a lot of people killed by that "joke" of a .22LR.

The newer .22 ammo like the CCI Velocitor is a significant leap over prior .22 ammo. It is a full 40 grains bullet traveling at 1400+ fps, which in test after test expands to .32" minimum (usually more), retains 95% of it's weight, and penetrates very well.

Also, Bill Jordan disagrees with you. . .

And here is a review of the Velocitor ammo.

Velocitor Performance Test

[Blast]

Let's not forget Robert Kennedy was killed with a .22 Iver-Johnson Cadet revolver.

Kennedy had been shot three times. One bullet, fired at a range of about 1 inch (2.54 cm), entered behind his right ear, dispersing fragments throughout his brain. Two others entered at the rear of his right armpit; one exited from his chest and the other lodged in the back of his neck.[28] Despite extensive neurosurgery at the Good Samaritan Hospital to remove the bullet and bone fragments from his brain, Kennedy died at 1:44 a.m. PDT, nearly 26 hours after the shooting. Five other people were also wounded: William Weisel of ABC News, Paul Schrade of the United Auto Workers union, Democratic Party activist Elizabeth Evans, Ira Goldstein of the Continental News Service and Kennedy campaign volunteer Irwin Stroll. Although not physically wounded, singer Rosemary Clooney, a strong Kennedy supporter, was present in the ballroom during the shooting in the pantry and suffered a nervous breakdown shortly afterward.

And there have been a number of instances where people have died within minutes of being shot as well as instantly, whether by accident or intentional.

Would I make a .22 my primary? No, but I'm a good enough shot to feel safe with one if it's all I got.

[searcher66083]

Since you brought up Kennedy, lets not forget that President Reagan was shot by Hinkley with a 22lr. I saw a thingthe other day that talked about it. Hinkley had some rounds called Devastators(I think) that were supposed to explode after penetration.

[MrMurphy]

A .22 would never be my first pick, but it's no joke.

Seen quite a few people shot up by every caliber and a .22 will certainly kill you in the right spots.

[mac66]

Originally Posted by James Markov

Yea, but the concept is still a valid one-economically priced guns/ammo for defensive purposes. And the .22 rimfire fits that description...

Yeah, but we covered this ground before, several times.

[vetteman]

I've got a 44 magnum so no need for me to use .22LR for home defense. But check out what 22LR fired from a rifle does to a gelatin block, if I had to use my 10/22, I would feel confident using it to defend myself but it still wouldn't be my first choice. A 22LR handgun I would not feel as confident with due to lower velocity and it would not be as accurate as a long gun and you do not have the larger caliber to compensate for the reduced accuracy of a handgun. If using 22LR to defend yourself, shot placement would have to be near perfect to a vital area. It is good to have a larger margin of error in a self defense situation so I prefer the larger calibers. A small fast moving bullet like the 17 HMR I would think would be likely to fragment and not penetrate deep enough.