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Old 09-06-2014, 11:08   #1
capnjim01
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Getting started with an AR

My G/F informed me that we need a big rifle.

So what do I start with and what are the must haves, with out breaking the bank for now? I know, but she has no idea, that you always need something else.

I'm thinking S&W MP15 carbine to start for home defense but I'd also like to be able to take it out with my friends and shoot couple of hundred yards.

We both are much better with hand guns than rifles and she is deadly at short distances with a 2" Charter Arms 38.
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Old 09-06-2014, 11:48   #2
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The M&P will serve you fine.
Stock up on mags and ammo.
For HD, add a light, sling, and when money permits a good red dot.
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Old 09-06-2014, 13:49   #3
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S&W M&P15 is a good choice. I would recommend the Sport model. It is already set up with iron sights. You can always mount a red dot optic or a 1-4x24 scope (0-300 yards) at some point.
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Old 09-13-2014, 07:19   #4
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Seeing you are in NC, as am I, I would strongly encourage you to go by Barnes Precision near Raleigh. Actually Apex, close to Jordan Lake on way to Chapel Hill. My buddy and I stopped by the shop for a tour and bought five patrol rifles last year. My buddy is big into 3 gun and that's how he knew about Barnes Precision, as they are quite popular.

I set one up for long range shooting that is already shooting 0.885 eight shot groups and I'm still working up that 69 SMK load. My buddy hits 400 yard plates with ease with his 77 SMK moly load. I set the other one up with EOtech. Very high quality guns without the price you would expect. We have thousands of rounds through these guns without any sort of malfunction. All parts are made in house, and he sells his bolts and parts to other more known companies.

Eds Gun Shop near Southern Pines, among many other gun shops, sell these rifles. Should be about $1200, if higher, be sure to call Eds. There has been some price gouging from some dealers on these Barnes rifles. I spoke with Andrew Barnes the other day about his 308 version which is coming out in Nov/Dec. Cant wait. It will also have the stainless Montana rifle barrel.

http://www.usamade-ar15parts.com/Default.asp

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Old 09-13-2014, 09:36   #5
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Well, OP, I would start with a questions for you.

How will you and the wifey use an Ar15?
What is your budget?

I have some thoughts on helping new AR buyers, that are based on my own experiences. I believe that most new AR buyers either do not know about the huge number of different manufacturers, types, and styles of ARs, along with the bewildering array of accessories on the market for them.

Or, they do know, and find it a bit over-whelming.

My personal thought is that it new AR owners would be better off doing two things; first, looking at AR15 picture threads, and getting a feel for what is available, and what they like.

And second, I suggest not buying an entry level AR, but something more mid-level......once the perspective AR owner has really figured out what they want and like.
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Old 09-13-2014, 15:20   #6
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Well, OP, I would start with a questions for you.

How will you and the wifey use an Ar15?
What is your budget?

I have some thoughts on helping new AR buyers, that are based on my own experiences. I believe that most new AR buyers either do not know about the huge number of different manufacturers, types, and styles of ARs, along with the bewildering array of accessories on the market for them.

Or, they do know, and find it a bit over-whelming.

My personal thought is that it new AR owners would be better off doing two things; first, looking at AR15 picture threads, and getting a feel for what is available, and what they like.

And second, I suggest not buying an entry level AR, but something more mid-level......once the perspective AR owner has really figured out what they want and like.
The M&P15 Sport would be a great platform. It provides a good base weapon to start with and is upgradeable should the OP decide at some point to take it to the next level. They can add a number of different optics to tailor it for their use. There is always the option to buy another AR in the future that is already upgraded with all the bells and whistles and give the Sport to the girlfriend. The M&P15 is not a beginner level AR. It is just a basic carbine without any of the frills. They are built very well and do not break the bank. They have a very good reputation.
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Old 09-14-2014, 00:58   #7
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If you are considering the M&P15 Sport then you should also look at the Colt Competition Sporting CSR-1516 http://www.gunblast.com/Colt-CSR1516.htm

http://www.30calgal.com/colt-csr-151...-this-perfect/
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:19   #8
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M&P 15 will meet the minimum requirements, but for a tiny bit more you can be in a whole new world of quality.

The "Peak AR" event is unfolding rapidly as the market continues to change on a daily basis. You owe it to yourself to consider all options.

In a recent build thread, it may-or-may-not have been demonstrated that you could come close to matching the off the shelf price of a 6920 with lesser parts.

...then a few days ago, AIM was advertising lowers that cost less than a shirt:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...er&groupid=722

Do some research and I'm sure you can find a quality rifle at the right price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs93accord View Post
I would recommend the Sport model.
Sport was an OK value when they had the 5R barrel and other options were several hundred dollars more. With better rifles so close in price and now the lower quality barrel, I don't see them as a good pick any longer.

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Originally Posted by BenjiEDF View Post
If you are considering the M&P15 Sport then you should also look at the Colt Competition Sporting CSR-1516
Those rifles are part of the failed Colt/Anderson partnership, and were dumped for a reason along with the LE6900.

I would definitely stay away.
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Old 09-14-2014, 06:57   #9
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M&P 15 will meet the minimum requirements, but for a tiny bit more you can be in a whole new world of quality.

The "Peak AR" event is unfolding rapidly as the market continues to change on a daily basis. You owe it to yourself to consider all options.

In a recent build thread, it may-or-may-not have been demonstrated that you could come close to matching the off the shelf price of a 6920 with lesser parts.

...then a few days ago, AIM was advertising lowers that cost less than a shirt:

http://www.aimsurplus.com/product.as...er&groupid=722

Do some research and I'm sure you can find a quality rifle at the right price.



Sport was an OK value when they had the 5R barrel and other options were several hundred dollars more. With better rifles so close in price and now the lower quality barrel, I don't see them as a good pick any longer.



Those rifles are part of the failed Colt/Anderson partnership, and were dumped for a reason along with the LE6900.

I would definitely stay away.
capnjim01, disregard anything coming from this guy. We have had issues with his biased and non-factual comments for years now. His rhetoric is well known and shunned by many. He is what I refer to as a "Kool-Aid" drinker. He is a Colt guy and basis everything he says on them. To him, they appear to be the holy grail from which he drinks his Kool-Aid.


PS. The "Kool-Aid Dinker" refers to the thousands of followers that Jim Jones was responsible for killing by means of having them drink a particular liquied that was poisonous.
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Old 09-14-2014, 09:16   #10
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capnjim01, disregard anything coming from this guy.
LOL... thanks for the warning.

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He is a Colt guy and basis everything he says on them. To him, they appear to be the holy grail from which he drinks his Kool-Aid.
I'm actually a Noveske guy- I don't even own a single complete Colt rifle!

That being said, it's undeniable that the LE6920 with Magpul furniture is the current value leader.

Anyone who does their research will quickly discover this- regardless of any advice I offer, or anything the Junk-Spec-Crew says to help justify their buyer's remorse.

M&P15 for $973 when you can get an LE6920 for $850?

http://www.budsgunshop.com/catalog/i...ath/36_763_977



Or a "sport" for $220 less?

Absolutely not. No way.

The best advice remains "do your own research," but I think the JSC is offering very poor advice to new shooters in this forum.

That said, I don't attack the person giving the advice, I merely point out that the lowest price is not always the best value.
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:08   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by capnjim01 View Post
My G/F informed me that we need a big rifle
You consider the AR-15 a "big rifle"?


Quote:
Originally Posted by jrs93accord View Post
capnjim01, disregard anything coming from this guy. We have had issues with his biased and non-factual comments for years now. His rhetoric is well known and shunned by many. He is what I refer to as a "Kool-Aid" drinker. He is a Colt guy and basis everything he says on them. To him, they appear to be the holy grail from which he drinks his Kool-Aid.
There are certainly a lot of those on the web, and Colt isn't the only manufacturer with a Fan Boy Club.

Quote:
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That being said, it's undeniable that the LE6920 with Magpul furniture is the current value leader.

M&P15 for $973 when you can get an LE6920 for $850?
Definitely cannot argue with that.

The thing is OP, you'll find a lot of fan boys pushing any and every brand. It often becomes a battle for validation to get someone to follow their advice. Some of these fan boys get down right rabid trying to get you to follow their advice.

The SW will probably serve you well enough. The Colt, just as well. If you like the SW and want it, go for it.

I picked up a Colt from a transfer FFL who commented "there is someone very special about the look of a Colt AR". And he was right. There is something perfect in the aesthetic appeal of a Colt. I don't own a SW...... yet.

Bravo Company is another of my favorites.

You really can't go wrong with any of them. If you are worried about properly staked gas keys, grab a hammer and chisel, and go to it. I don't know anyone who has had any trouble with gas keys on any "lesser brand". It could be that when tinkerers remove their gas key, that's when they start having problems. I've never seen it first hand, or heard about it in person.

One other thing to consider. I don't know the financial ties you have with your GF, or if she is bound to become your wife at some point in the future. If she is in a position to "encourage" you to get a rifle, and you go out and break the bank, don't expect any such blessing any time soon. She is probably not going to understand the difference between a Windham\Bushmaster\Stag and a Noveske, except the difference in cost.

If you like the SW, get it. You find a Colt for less, and decide you want it, get it. You probably cannot go wrong with either.

All that said, if you buy what the fan boys call a cheap rifle, here are the "differences" and the tweaks that you can do yourself. Read through it, and see if it makes you reconsider your purchase.

http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....w-better!-quot


http://www.m4carbine.net/showthread....ajor-AR-Brands
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:37   #12
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The M&P will serve you fine.
Stock up on mags and ammo.
For HD, add a light, sling, and when money permits a good red dot.
Agreed, with one caveat. With the prices you can get a Colt 6920 for online right now, there's really not much reason to get anything else in the under $1,000 price range if you want an AR. I've seen some listings for them that were even around $799.

Quote:
Originally Posted by BenjiEDF View Post
If you are considering the M&P15 Sport then you should also look at the Colt Competition Sporting CSR-1516 http://www.gunblast.com/Colt-CSR1516.htm
Except it's not made by Colt, and isn't up to the same standards as Colt.

OP, I would agree with the earlier suggestion to hit the photo thread in this forum and see if you see anything that really strikes your fancy.

You can easily make hits on man-sized targets to 300 yards using iron sights or a red dot with a fairly minimal amount of practice. If you want to shoot tiny groups at those distances, you will definitely need something with a fair amount of magnification.
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Old 09-14-2014, 11:57   #13
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Here is a good deal on the M&P15 Sport.

http://www.gandermountain.com/modper...fle&i=GM443424
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:20   #14
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The M&P15 Sport would be a great platform. It provides a good base weapon to start with and is upgradeable should the OP decide at some point to take it to the next level. They can add a number of different optics to tailor it for their use. There is always the option to buy another AR in the future that is already upgraded with all the bells and whistles and give the Sport to the girlfriend. The M&P15 is not a beginner level AR. It is just a basic carbine without any of the frills. They are built very well and do not break the bank. They have a very good reputation.
Right, I get all of that. Nothing against S&W ARs, I owned one and loved it. But it's an entry level AR, and there is better stuff out there for not much more money.

My thought is "buy once, cry once".

IF the OP and his wifey can settle on something more specific than a basic AR, they may save themselves time and money. Maybe something like a BCM KMR, or a D.D. of some nature. It's getting something a bit more, instead of starting at the bottom and working your way up through trial and error.

Of course, that requires some looking around in AR pic threads and seeing what they like.
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Old 09-14-2014, 12:26   #15
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16 in. Complete Barreled flat top upper with BCG & CH delivered to your door , Lower receiver & LPK & Buffertube ,buffer & Stock & BUIS of your choice and build it up to learn the platform...

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Old 09-14-2014, 12:56   #16
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I'd suggest just getting one of these. Add some Troy BUISs, an optic of choice, perhaps a VFG or AFG, a sling and a light.
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Old 09-14-2014, 13:00   #17
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I'd suggest just getting one of these. Add some Troy BUISs, an optic of choice, perhaps a VFG or AFG, a sling and a light.
That's a nice rifle, but:

1) It aint twice the gun a 6920 is for almost twice the price.

2) Welded on "Permamanent Tactical Compensator" is a big NO GO for me, and I love 14.5" ARs.
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Old 09-14-2014, 13:01   #18
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The M&P15 Sport would be a great platform. It provides a good base weapon to start with and is upgradeable should the OP decide at some point to take it to the next level. They can add a number of different optics to tailor it for their use. There is always the option to buy another AR in the future that is already upgraded with all the bells and whistles and give the Sport to the girlfriend. The M&P15 is not a beginner level AR. It is just a basic carbine without any of the frills. They are built very well and do not break the bank. They have a very good reputation.
This.
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Old 09-14-2014, 13:10   #19
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That's a nice rifle, but:

1) It aint twice the gun a 6920 is for almost twice the price.

2) Welded on "Permamanent Tactical Compensator" is a big NO GO for me, and I love 14.5" ARs.
It's a completely different AR from a 6920. 6920s are old-school. Standard carbine-length gas system, standard FSP, standard hand-guards, standard, standard, standard.

Why not just go straight for the KMR rail, the BCM Gunfighter Comp, 14.5" barrel, quality from stem to stern, top to bottom? It's also got the Mod 4 charging handle, it's a reasonably light AR....all the stuff that makes an AR pleasant to shoot.

And, since the wifey wants to shoot it, there's nothing smoother and softer shooting than a BCM mid-length 14.5" with their Gunfighter comp, it's just an excellent combination.

Is it cheap? No. But in my time on this earth, I have come to understand that the cheapest is never the best value. And this way, the OP and his wife can simply be done, have the AR thing covered, wrapped-up.
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Old 09-14-2014, 13:11   #20
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I'd suggest just getting one of these. Add some Troy BUISs, an optic of choice, perhaps a VFG or AFG, a sling and a light.
Why recommend an almost $1600 AR when you do not even know what the OPs budget is. If by chance he was looking at the M&P15 because it was more in his price range, you are way off in your recommendation.


Quote:
Originally Posted by KalashniKEV View Post
That's a nice rifle, but:

1) It aint twice the gun a 6920 is for almost twice the price.

2) Welded on "Permamanent Tactical Compensator" is a big NO GO for me, and I love 14.5" ARs.
I do not recall anyone saying anything about a BCM Recce 14 KMR being twice the AR than the 6920 is. It seems you have something negative to say about everything anyone else has to say. So typical.

I really hope the OP has decided to not even bother looking at this thread he started. He has not chimed in since he started this over a week ago and maybe with good reason.
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