Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 11-18-2014, 17:01   #1
danattherock
Senior Member
 
danattherock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 688
IMR Trail Boss. Anyone use this stuff?

I never hear or read much of anyone talking about it, yet it is impossible to find in person or online. I am intersted in making some reduced loads for 44 Special, 45-70, and 500 S&W with it, but load data eludes me. I have lead 240 gr Keith bullets for 44, 300 gr lead round nose for 45-70, and 400 gr Missouri Bullets crusher #1 lead flat nose bullets for 500.

Curious in general what your thoughts are on this powder and how a relatively new reloader like myself might go about working up loads with components which lack load data. I've relied on some guidance here but mostly stuck by the book. At this point, with this powder, I seem to be forced out of my comfort zone. Thanks for any thoughts.


Dan
__________________
The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.
danattherock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 17:05   #2
JBnTX
God Bless Texas
 
JBnTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between The Red And Rio Grande
Posts: 15,373
Trail Boss is excellent for low velocity, cast, cowboy type loads.
It's good for the 44 special and 45 Colt. Unique is far better though.

I bought a pound of Trail Boss and when it's gone I won't be buying any more.

It's good for powder puff loads, but if you want more bang and higher velocity, try Unique instead.
..

Last edited by JBnTX; 11-18-2014 at 17:10..
JBnTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 17:21   #3
Ceapea
Senior Member
 
Ceapea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 567
I use it to for low velocity loads in 38 spl and 44. It also has applications in some rifle loads. I have a very, very sweet load for my 30-30 for woods walks out to 50 yd or so. I have not yet found the sweet load for 30-06.
__________________
The man's nuts....grab 'em!
A pistol free zone is a crime spree zone!
NRA Life Member

Last edited by Ceapea; 11-18-2014 at 17:22..
Ceapea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 17:44   #4
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,329
Just fill the case to the bottom of the bullet and call this weight MAX

Start loading at 70% of MAX and work up.

Seriously! It's in the document, I didn't make it up!

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Google is your friend. It will lead you to all kinds of data. You can get more data at the IMR site:

http://www.imrpowder.com/

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 18:57   #5
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Just fill the case to the bottom of the bullet and call this weight MAX

Start loading at 70% of MAX and work up.

Seriously! It's in the document, I didn't make it up!

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Google is your friend. It will lead you to all kinds of data. You can get more data at the IMR site:

http://www.imrpowder.com/

Richard
Yep, been there done that.
308
30-06
45-70
458WM

Makes a nice powder puff load. 308, 30-06 would be good for rabbits. 45-70, 458WM would be good for deer.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

Last edited by RWBlue; 11-18-2014 at 18:59..
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 21:55   #6
danattherock
Senior Member
 
danattherock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 688
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Just fill the case to the bottom of the bullet and call this weight MAX

Start loading at 70% of MAX and work up.

Seriously! It's in the document, I didn't make it up!

http://www.imrpowder.com/PDF/Trail-Boss-data.pdf

Google is your friend. It will lead you to all kinds of data. You can get more data at the IMR site:

http://www.imrpowder.com/

Richard


Saw that, but for example, I've got 400 gr bullets for the 500 S&W. The data provided on the above link is for a 370 gr bullet with a start and max for Trail boss listed at 8-12 gr.

Then for the 440 gr bullet, it has start and max at 7-10 gr. So guessing, I would say the recommended range for a 400 gr bullet would be 7.5-11 gr.

But that guess, as I don't have one of only two bullet weights they list, is as close as I can find to 'data'. Perhaps this is common in reloading, but I haven't had to stray outside of printed loads yet, so wanted to get some feedback.



Dan
__________________
The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.
danattherock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 22:01   #7
danattherock
Senior Member
 
danattherock's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 688
Then for a hot load, I will use Longshot and the same 400 gr bullet. Data on the site is for a jacketed bullet. What adjustments would I want to consider using this data for a lead bullet. 18 Brinnel with no gas check. Aim for mid range?

BULLET WEIGHT400 GR. SIE JSP
ManufacturerHodgdon
PowderLongshot
Bullet Diameter.500"
C.O.L.2.050"

Starting Load
Grains18.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,274
Pressure36,500 PSI

Maximum Load
Grains22.0
Velocity (ft/s)1,458
Pressure49,000 PSI
__________________
The two loudest sounds known to man: a gun that goes bang when it is supposed to go click and a gun that goes click when it is supposed to go bang.
danattherock is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 22:50   #8
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,246
Quote:
Originally Posted by danattherock View Post
Saw that, but for example, I've got 400 gr bullets for the 500 S&W. The data provided on the above link is for a 370 gr bullet with a start and max for Trail boss listed at 8-12 gr.

Then for the 440 gr bullet, it has start and max at 7-10 gr. So guessing, I would say the recommended range for a 400 gr bullet would be 7.5-11 gr.

But that guess, as I don't have one of only two bullet weights they list, is as close as I can find to 'data'. Perhaps this is common in reloading, but I haven't had to stray outside of printed loads yet, so wanted to get some feedback.

Dan
I haven't done the math, but I think you are correct.

I like putting it all in a spreadsheet.

Try googling up a couple more data points and you should be able to graph this.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-18-2014, 23:25   #9
ShaneS
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Greater D/FW Texas, USA
Posts: 1,581
I have used Trailboss in some lead .38 Special loads with good accuracy results. It is different.


Sent from my iPhone using Ohub Campfire
__________________
Use Glock Talk's "Ignore" feature to hide comments from unhelpful members.

If socialism has failed everywhere else, why would we want to bring it here?
ShaneS is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 07:55   #10
Three-Five-Seven
Señor Mombo
 
Three-Five-Seven's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: Tucson
Posts: 3,326
I have used Trail Boss for several years in the 45-70 and 38-40. It is very consistent and accurate.

There is load data at the Hodgdon's site for most all the calibers the O.P. listed. I have found that loads in the bottom half of Hodgdon's recommended range of charges are more accurate that are hotter loads -- f.y.i.

Beware, the little "donuts" are very light and will often adhere to powder measure surfaces due to static electricity. You may have to wipe your powder measure down with dryer sheets to get things flowing. Visually verify every charge, as Trailboss is noted for clumping in the drop tube because of static electricity.

Great powder. Very clean and consistent.
__________________
That I could be wrong is an eventuality that has not escaped me. I just painted the pictures as I saw them. I do not know how to do anything else. (Saint Elmer, 1955)

Last edited by Three-Five-Seven; 11-19-2014 at 07:55..
Three-Five-Seven is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 08:45   #11
JBnTX
God Bless Texas
 
JBnTX's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Between The Red And Rio Grande
Posts: 15,373
Quote:
Originally Posted by Three-Five-Seven View Post

... I have found that loads in the bottom half of Hodgdon's recommended range of charges are more accurate that are hotter loads -- f.y.i.
^^^ I'll second that.
JBnTX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 09:40   #12
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by danattherock View Post
Saw that, but for example, I've got 400 gr bullets for the 500 S&W. The data provided on the above link is for a 370 gr bullet with a start and max for Trail boss listed at 8-12 gr.

Dan
The paper I linked above doesn't even mention bullet weight. Just fill up the case to the bottom of the bullet and call it MAX. Back off to 70% and work up.

Do some experiments! Use the procedure in the paper as a baseline for charge weight. See how that fits in the range of individual published loads.

I sure wouldn't use this procedure for Bullseye! Apparently Trail Boss uses a lot of powder to produce little pressure and velocity.

I tend to think of powder charges in terms of 0.1 gr. For Trail Boss, I guess I need to think in terms of teaspoons!

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 09:42   #13
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 22,116
Blog Entries: 3
I like it for light lead loads in large magnum cases. It's not cheap though.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 11:56   #14
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
I like it for light lead loads in large magnum cases. It's not cheap though.
If I ever see some, maybe I'll pick it up to load .44 Mag. A nice soft load in a Model 29 should be a lot of fun. Maybe something with a SWC profile.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 12:21   #15
Hoser
Mall Ninja
 
Hoser's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 2,370
I use it to load subsonic ammo in my 308. Cool powder.
Hoser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 12:28   #16
dkf
Senior Member
 
dkf's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 4,737
You don't need to use TB for the .44 special or mag with that bullet. There is data out for lower power loads using std pistol powders. Due to the large case volume I would save the TB for the 45-70 and .500.
dkf is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 12:44   #17
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoser View Post
I use it to load subsonic ammo in my 308. Cool powder.
Now that's interesting! Maybe I could find something that would eliminate the recoil of my .308 so my wife might enjoy shooting it.

There isn't much recoil as it is. The Holland muzzle brake does a real nice job even if it is distracting to nearby shooters.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 13:34   #18
fredj338
Senior Member
 
fredj338's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: so.cal.
Posts: 22,116
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
If I ever see some, maybe I'll pick it up to load .44 Mag. A nice soft load in a Model 29 should be a lot of fun. Maybe something with a SWC profile.

Richard
I prefer it to something like RedDot, which is my go to large case, light load. A max charge fills the case more than half. I can actually see the charge inside the case as it goes by on the progressive. It just needs to be 1/2 the cost. Red Dot works too for light loads, good loft. It was my go to CAS powder choice in the big 45colt case running a 200gr bullet @ 700fps.
__________________
"Given adequate penetration, a larger diameter bullet will have an edge in wounding effectiveness. It will damage a blood vessel the smaller projectile barely misses. The larger permanent cavity may lead to faster blood loss. Although such an edge clearly exists, its significance cannot be quantified".
fredj338 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 13:46   #19
F106 Fan
Senior Member
 
F106 Fan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Posts: 6,329
Quote:
Originally Posted by fredj338 View Post
Red Dot works too for light loads, good loft. It was my go to CAS powder choice in the big 45colt case running a 200gr bullet @ 700fps.
That's another cartridge I should be loading - .45 Colt. I have a S&W Model 25 but I have only used moon clips and .45 ACP.

Richard
__________________
"No matter how cynical you become, it's never enough to keep up." - Lily Tomlin
F106 Fan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-19-2014, 14:28   #20
Ceapea
Senior Member
 
Ceapea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Midwest
Posts: 567
Quote:
Originally Posted by F106 Fan View Post
Now that's interesting! Maybe I could find something that would eliminate the recoil of my .308 so my wife might enjoy shooting it.

There isn't much recoil as it is. The Holland muzzle brake does a real nice job even if it is distracting to nearby shooters.

Richard
I load real easy recoiling 30-30 rounds, and I know of several guys that load low recoil 30-06 rounds with TB. I havn't settled on any 30-06 loads as of yet.
But, using Hodgdons H4895 (NOT IMR 4895!), reduced down to about 60% of max load (not more than a 40% reduction) and light for caliber bullets, you can get some real soft 308 rounds too.
They have a link to that info on their site, but it doesn't work at this time.
Here is some more info...
http://hodgdon.com/PDF/Trail%20Boss%...oads%20R&P.pdf
__________________
The man's nuts....grab 'em!
A pistol free zone is a crime spree zone!
NRA Life Member
Ceapea is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:45.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 985
265 Members
720 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31