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Old 11-25-2005, 00:09   #51
jobob
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I like to carry my reload magazines one round down, not to relieve pressure on the spring, but to make reloading easier. More than once I've failed to fully seat the magazine on a reload. That one round makes quite a distance in the force needed to seat the mag.
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Old 11-27-2005, 00:29   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by racine
I thought I'd add a comment from Marc Cosat at ISMI on gun springs.

"...ISMI premium springs are manufactured exclusively with certified aerospace specification alloys; stainless or chrome silicon. Then our springs are heat treated, shot peened and stress relieved after winding to enhance performance and durability. Our springs utilize the same design and manufacturing technology as used in IndyCar and Formula One racing. In a typical 500 mile race, a valve spring in an IndyCar will go through more than 2,500,000 compression cycles. Consideration of factors such as modulus, wire diameter, mean diameter, active coils, total deflection, spring relaxation, maximum service temperature, and operating environment; results in you having modern spring technology available for your pistol.

Because of the properties of music wire; it cannot be heat treated, shot peened and stress relieved after the spring is wound. Additionally, music wire lacks consistency from bulk lot to bulk lot. This results in inconsistent performance from spring to spring. This is the same technology that was in use 90 years ago when John Browning designed the 1911 style pistol.

We believe that springs shouldn’t be an ongoing worry or concern for the shooter. Springs should be an annual routine maintenance item. Change them once a year; go shoot and have fun..."
He is selling a product, and wants to make money. You can't make money if people don't buy your product.

Spring set under load is a myth. If it were true, you would have to replace the springs in your car every few thousand miles, but you don't.

The reason that mag springs wear out is the same reason that firing pin springs, and recoil springs have to be replaced. from compression and decompression. But the recoil spring and firing pin springs are under a whole different set of stresses than a mag spring.

If this guy believes this, I guess that he changes his car's springs ever time he rotates his tires.
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Old 11-27-2005, 22:30   #53
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"...He is selling a product, and wants to make money. You can't make money if people don't buy your product.

Spring set under load is a myth. If it were true, you would have to replace the springs in your car every few thousand miles, but you don't..."

Your point is well taken. But you still have to consider the concept of quality control. If I don't have to replace my ISMI springs but every 2-3 yrs vs every year with the Wolff then I have saved some money and myself frustration. I would not knock it unless you've tried it. To suggest generalities about spring performance without taking into consideration ALL THE MANY variables involved is reckless and foolhardy. I don't think you can reasonably compare gun springs to automobile (let alone performance cars)springs. Just a different animal altogether.
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Old 11-28-2005, 14:06   #54
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Quote:
Originally posted by racine
Your point is well taken. But you still have to consider the concept of quality control. If I don't have to replace my ISMI springs but every 2-3 yrs vs every year with the Wolff then I have saved some money and myself frustration. I would not knock it unless you've tried it. To suggest generalities about spring performance without taking into consideration ALL THE MANY variables involved is reckless and foolhardy. I don't think you can reasonably compare gun springs to automobile (let alone performance cars)springs. Just a different animal altogether. [/B]
I have used ISMI springs, and found no difference in them than in wolff springs. I will even go so far as to say that the Wolff springs are better because they are the CORRECT LENGTH when you buy them, and you don't have to guess what length to trim them to.

A spring is a spring is a spring, just as a nail is a nail is a nail, so the analogy is very reasonable. THe concept is the same.
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Old 11-28-2005, 15:40   #55
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A spring is a spring is a spring, just as a nail is a nail is a nail, so the analogy

Your analogy is flawed based on basic metallurgy alone. If a "...spring is a spring..." then why have all manner of industries come up with validity testing, Quality Controls, Random Sampling to maintain a higher standard of product and improve on what we once had. If I were to follow your analogy then I'd still be driving a model T, using iron nails on my roof, drinking water from the river... Sorry, that kind of thinking did not get us to the moon...
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Old 11-28-2005, 23:15   #56
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Re: A spring is a spring is a spring, just as a nail is a nail is a nail, so the analogy

Quote:
Originally posted by racine
Your analogy is flawed based on basic metallurgy alone. If a "...spring is a spring..." then why have all manner of industries come up with validity testing, Quality Controls, Random Sampling to maintain a higher standard of product and improve on what we once had. If I were to follow your analogy then I'd still be driving a model T, using iron nails on my roof, drinking water from the river... Sorry, that kind of thinking did not get us to the moon...
THe point is that the CONCEPT BEHIND SPRINGS IS THE SAME.

Of course this guy says his springs are better. He wants to sell them and make money.

But are they REALLY any better? Not really, and I have used ISMI before.

If you want to get into theory and all the rest of it, it would be better for them to sell springs PRECUT, instead of having you do it at home with who knows what kind of tool. THat way they can regulate the cut, the direction of the grain (yes, metal has a 'grain') and temper the cut.

But they don't.

Like I said, if he REALLY thinks that spring set is a REAL problem, then he must get his springs changed every rotation, because spring set would affect ALL springs, not just mag springs.
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Old 12-02-2005, 23:42   #57
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A spring is a spring is a spring, just as a nail is a nail is a nail, so the analogy

"...If you want to get into theory and all the rest of it, it would be better for them to sell springs PRECUT, instead of having you do it at home with who knows what kind of tool. THat way they can regulate the cut, the direction of the grain (yes, metal has a 'grain') and temper the cut. But they don't.
Like I said, if he REALLY thinks that spring set is a REAL problem, then he must get his springs changed every rotation, because spring set would affect ALL springs, not just mag springs..."

I get it, you're joking right? How does PRECUTing "regulate the direction of the grain or the temper of the cut??? I think your grasping at staws here. Seriously though, ISMI sells their springs long to accomodate the hundreds of different "OEM" magazine lengths, styles, and capacities so you yourself can determine what length works best for your needs. I'm sorry those springs don't work for you but for my SA45 7/8/10 rounder, HK USP45 12/17 rounder, G35 15/20 rounder magazines are all ISMI. Given them a call, I'm sure he would be glad to refund your money. I don't work for them nor do I purposely advertise for them, I just know their springs work. Funny, for the longest time I thought BMW too was just a whole lot of hype- till I drove one.
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Old 12-03-2005, 18:02   #58
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Re: A spring is a spring is a spring, just as a nail is a nail is a nail, so the analogy

Quote:
Originally posted by racine
"...If you want to get into theory and all the rest of it, it would be better for them to sell springs PRECUT, instead of having you do it at home with who knows what kind of tool. THat way they can regulate the cut, the direction of the grain (yes, metal has a 'grain') and temper the cut. But they don't.
Like I said, if he REALLY thinks that spring set is a REAL problem, then he must get his springs changed every rotation, because spring set would affect ALL springs, not just mag springs..."

I get it, you're joking right? How does PRECUTing "regulate the direction of the grain or the temper of the cut??? I think your grasping at staws here. Seriously though, ISMI sells their springs long to accomodate the hundreds of different "OEM" magazine lengths, styles, and capacities so you yourself can determine what length works best for your needs. I'm sorry those springs don't work for you but for my SA45 7/8/10 rounder, HK USP45 12/17 rounder, G35 15/20 rounder magazines are all ISMI. Given them a call, I'm sure he would be glad to refund your money. I don't work for them nor do I purposely advertise for them, I just know their springs work. Funny, for the longest time I thought BMW too was just a whole lot of hype- till I drove one.
Have you ever bought a recoil spring from them? I have and it had to be cut to the proper length.
It's not grasping at straws when you read what the guy from ISMI wrote about their desire to control quality to the nth degree, so why leave a variable, and go on about qc this and qc that?
Sorry, but I have used OEM and aftermarket springs, and the best ones I've found so far are Wilson springs for 1911s and Wolff for everything else.

I don't dispute the fact that they may shotpeen their springs, or do what they claim to do, but when they go into a sales pitch in a spring discussion, you really have to wonder.....

I never said that their springs were crap, but when he statrted to prattle about how much they go into QC, why leave a variable like cutting the spring? The ycan figure out the best tension for a certain mag size, and sell them precut, and shot peened, and relieved at the cut if it REALLY makes as much difference as THEY claim.
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Old 12-04-2005, 09:33   #59
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So far in the years I have been into weapons, I have only had to change 1 mag spring. It was for a factory 15rd beretta mag I picked up at a gun show for $5. Why $5? Because it was a VERY USED MILITARY MAG. The spring was very weak from god only knows how many rds. I had the mag refinished, along with a new spring. I kept the original follower in it. Works great.

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Old 12-11-2005, 23:24   #60
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Mag spring woes?

I shoot often enough and rotate my mags (always fresh ammo) never had a problem, I am on Glock #8.

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Old 12-14-2005, 17:48   #61
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i keep mine loaded all the time. i never had a problem with a magazine.(but i do go out to the range each month.)
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Old 12-20-2005, 17:16   #62
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My uncle had an old 25 calibur pistol he hadn't shot in about 20 years. We took it to the range and it fired with those old bullets. I have no doubt Glocks will work find after 30 days.
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Old 12-26-2005, 17:07   #63
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I once had a glock mag spring break on me, it snapped about two third's down. My local gunshop had a real giggle about it. The mag spring was replaced without charge, not that it would have caused me any problem's, as I have a further 10 mag's to choose from.

Tony
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Old 12-29-2005, 14:30   #64
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Some of this on this sounds at least comforting considering mine stay loaded a lot. But with extensions on a 9 round they comfortably take 10. Not as much pressure as when they only loaded 9. That's good too. Anyway, my husband wants to buy me some extra mags so that I can rotate, because he is still of the mind that they need rotation. They will be 15 round mags, which will be nice. So for selfish reasons I am not showing him this thread until I get those mags. Once I have my extra mags you can persuade him that I don't really need to rotate.
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Old 12-31-2005, 18:56   #65
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Quote:
Originally posted by toemag
I once had a glock mag spring break on me, it snapped about two third's down. My local gunshop had a real giggle about it. The mag spring was replaced without charge, not that it would have caused me any problem's, as I have a further 10 mag's to choose from.

Tony
Do you always carry 10 mags with you all the time? I'm a firm believer in Murphy's law. I don't care if you went out to the range and shoot you grandpas mag that has been loaded since World War 1. Would you take it and use that mag for a carry piece. I sure would not, Yes it works fine out on the practice range but when the chip are down Murhpy takes over. How many of you go out to the range and shoot a gun nothen happens. Go to a match and as soon as the buzzer goes off everything goes to hell, Murhphy's Law at work again. If you like carrying a mag in your gun that has been loaded for the last 10 years that is your prerogative. Me, I switch mags every month and change the ammo every 6 months. just like the battery in the smoke detecter. I know Murphy all to well. Just my 2 cents.
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Old 01-04-2006, 23:17   #66
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Great thread thanks to all for the info.
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Old 01-09-2006, 06:21   #67
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Old 01-09-2006, 11:44   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by unclebob
Do you always carry 10 mags with you all the time? I'm a firm believer in Murphy's law. I don't care if you went out to the range and shoot you grandpas mag that has been loaded since World War 1. Would you take it and use that mag for a carry piece. I sure would not, Yes it works fine out on the practice range but when the chip are down Murhpy takes over. How many of you go out to the range and shoot a gun nothen happens. Go to a match and as soon as the buzzer goes off everything goes to hell, Murhphy's Law at work again. If you like carrying a mag in your gun that has been loaded for the last 10 years that is your prerogative. Me, I switch mags every month and change the ammo every 6 months. just like the battery in the smoke detecter. I know Murphy all to well. Just my 2 cents.
Nobody said never to change mag springs or rotate mags. WHat has been said is the the issue of spring set is way overblown.

You don't need to change mag springs every six months in the vast majority of cases.
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Old 01-09-2006, 17:24   #69
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Your right Unclebob, I don't always have 10 mag's on hand. On a normal range day I'll have 5 or so in the range bag, and another two in the box with the G17.

Mr. Murphy has done enough to me in the past few year's to start a thread or a blog, just on him & his escapade's. I wonder what he pack's?

We don't have a need for CCW here, if and when I carry the G17 while hunting I normally have two mag's on me, I think that 34 round's will be more than I could need. As a rule I carry the Colt Detective Special 2, with 2 speedloader's filled with SJHP.

Apart from that one spring that broke on me, I aint replaced any of the other's and they work fine.

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Old 01-18-2006, 06:27   #70
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Old 01-20-2006, 05:26   #71
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Over Stress LImits

After reading the above I am happy that our mags can stay loaded aka compressed.

However, what if I added one of those Grip Extension things (Pearce, Scherer, etc) that add +1 or +2 capacity.

Guess that may overload the spring, possibly not, what do you think?
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Old 01-20-2006, 18:21   #72
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Quote:
Originally posted by a1911owner
Nobody said never to change mag springs or rotate mags. WHat has been said is the the issue of spring set is way overblown.

You don't need to change mag springs every six months in the vast majority of cases.
That is not what I said. I have over 80 Glock mags the only springs that I have changed so far is I think 10 of them that I wanted a longer spring In the mag. Other than that All of the others are okey. I never said to change the mag springs every six months. I said For my carry gun I rotate my 5 carry mags every month, and change the ammo every 6 months. Yes the issue of spring set is probably overblown. But I'm not going to be the one that test out some ones else theory, that he or she may or may not know what they are talking about. If you want to keep your same mags load for 6 months or 6 years, that is your prerogative. It's just not mine. I don't claim to be a expert. Just almost 60 years of personal experance dealing with Mr. Murphy on and off.
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Old 01-22-2006, 09:57   #73
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When I went to Iraq in 2003 they told us not to load our M16A2 mags with the full 30 rounds. We could only load 28 rounds in 3 mags and carry 40 extra rounds on clips. But my Glock 19 and 32 always stay loaded. Never had any problem.
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Old 02-06-2006, 18:46   #74
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Loaded mags still effective

While the fact of my magazines being constantly loaded to "Max" for the past 7 years hardly compares to that of the WWII magazines, it does present sufficient time to assure that time compressed does not bring about significant or meaningful decrease of the springs' functional integrity. In terms of the "myth" coming in, I believe that it is not "myth", but "marketing". We are told by those who would sell us "rebuild kits" for our magazines that we "need them". Not! I have never rebuilt any magazine, and all of my magazines still function fine. This was a fantastic thread! Thank-you all! Save your money for something more significant--more magazines, not more magazine springs.

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Old 02-21-2006, 13:53   #75
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I back off 1 round.

why,
-what jobob said about seating the magazine, I have had more than 1 mag fall out.
-racking the slide is much harder with the full mag.
-that last round is just a *%^$# to load and cuts my fingers after doing it all day.
-It can only help the spring.
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