[RandyWallace]

Oops. just figured it out on my own. COM = Center of Mass. You said aim at the COM not just the whole body as a target. That was throwing me off. I assumed the COM was part of the whole body.

[gary newport]

Originally posted by RandyWallace
COM???

Center-of-mass. Better, aim for the sternum (or "high titty" area, as one of my Viet Nam vet shooting buddies calls it) on a frontal shot.

[entropy]

Originally posted by taters
it amazes me that people believe other people who say i have witnessed someone get shot multiple times in the chest with a .45 230 grain jhp and keep on fighting. the truth is just one of these rounds hitting the bad guy in the chest will stop the attacker 9 out of 10 times!!!!! that's police statistics.no one can convince me that a .45 jhp 230 grain hitting someone in the chest 4 times will not stop a bad guy. a 9mm yes but a .45 nah boys

Don't you know that 85.915% of all statistics are made up?

Seriously though, think of the bell curve.. once in a while some guy is gonna get really lucky and survive multiple shots to the chest from a .45, just like how every so often some guy dies or faints from a .22. Most of the time it's somewhere in-between, though, so most of the time one or two handgun shots will drop the BG. You're still better off with a long gun and/or better shot placement, of course.

[PBR Sailor]

Originally posted by RandyWallace
COM???

I believe he is referring to Center of Mass.

[RandyWallace]

In IDPA we often practice with 2 shots to the body and 1 to the head. If you are accurate, that would probably take out the bad guy.

But you know, if I am being attacked, I would probably unload on the bad guy. And maybe even re-load and shot some more. Better safe, than sorry......

Originally posted by PBR Sailor
I never have heard of an incident in which someone took a load of buckshot and kept on coming. I would not mind hearing about it if it in fact happened. I do wholeheartedly agree that you have to shoot until you are no longer threatened. No one can predict how many rounds it will take.

I believe in shot placement but looking at statistics means nothing to me with service calibers because of all the factors statistics will leave out.There are people who survive 4 story falls and others who die tripping on the sidewalk.Larger calibers do leave a smaller chance of error,but yes shot placement is the most important followed by caliber and bullet design.Statistics don't mention if certain factors where involved like drugs,bad angles,barriers,poor shot placement,jhp cavity failure to expand do to cavity clogging.
MOHAA

[Alaskapopo]

Originally posted by MOHAA Player
I believe in shot placement but looking at statistics means nothing to me with service calibers because of all the factors statistics will leave out.There are people who survive 4 story falls and others who die tripping on the sidewalk.Larger calibers do leave a smaller chance of error,but yes shot placement is the most important followed by caliber and bullet design.Statistics don't mention if certain factors where involved like drugs,bad angles,barriers,poor shot placement,jhp cavity failure to expand do to cavity clogging.
MOHAA

You forgot the most important factor of all, Luck!
Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Then sometimes you could do everything right and still lose. Thats just life.
Pat

Originally posted by Alaskapopo
You forgot the most important factor of all, Luck!
Sometimes its better to be lucky than good. Then sometimes you could do everything right and still lose. Thats just life.
Pat

Skill and luck together go a long way

[OldRonin]

I don't believe in luck. But I am wary of Murphy's Law(s)!

Originally posted by OldRonin
I don't believe in luck. But I am wary of Murphy's Law(s)!

Murphy's Law,Skill,Luck all play a role in the out come of a deadly confrataion but in the end I would say having SKILL comes first.
MOHAA

[SIGtrarian]

I believe it was Phil Engledrum who said "2 to the chest and 1 to the head even the Jolly Green Giant will fall down dead".

[Boring]

The stopping power of any service caliber weapon is directly related to the amount of practice the shooter has with that weapon and with the amount of rounds the shooter gets on target.

That's my measurement of stopping power.

[Vulthoom]

Getting shot with a handgun is really just about like getting stabbed really hard. Handguns don't do the velocity related damage that rifles do.

So how many folks get stabbed and immediately fall down? Not many, not many at all.

[gonnagetmine]

i dont know if anyone's linked this yet, i didn't go through all 14 pages

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppi....asp?Caliber=0

look at all the ~90% ONE shot stops

[RMTactical]

Originally posted by gonnagetmine
i dont know if anyone's linked this yet, i didn't go through all 14 pages

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppi....asp?Caliber=0

look at all the ~90% ONE shot stops

I wouldn't feel terribly comfortable carrying a gun that only worked 98% of the time. Why would I be satisfied with a 98% one shot stop percentage?

Besides, who's to say how accurate those numbers are... I wasn't there...

No reason to stop shooting unless your attacker has stopped, so keep the front sight on them and keep shooting until they are down... and train that way too...

[taters]

i can't believe some of you guys believe someone could get hit with 5 rounds of .45 and say they felt like bee stings. 9 out of 10 bad guys hit with a .45 go down after one shot. thats not me just making stuff up thats police statistics.8 out of 10 bad guys go down after 2 shots with a .40.....9mm is a whole different story.don't believe these fairy tales. you get hit with a 230 grain hydro shoc .45 bullet you are out of the fight no matter how good the pcp is you just smoked......

Originally posted by taters
i can't believe some of you guys believe someone could get hit with 5 rounds of .45 and say they felt like bee stings. 9 out of 10 bad guys hit with a .45 go down after one shot. thats not me just making stuff up thats police statistics.8 out of 10 bad guys go down after 2 shots with a .40.....9mm is a whole different story.don't believe these fairy tales. you get hit with a 230 grain hydro shoc .45 bullet you are out of the fight no matter how good the pcp is you just smoked......

WOW you must have info that no one else can get a hold of about the 230gr 45acp Fed HS.Can you please provide us with any proof at all that the Fed 230gr HS stops everyone no matter what with one hit every time.It's funny how soldiers in war continue to fight back after taken hits from AK's,M16's,AR's,grenade fragments but the 45acp will stop a fight every time.
MOHAA

[RandyWallace]

Originally posted by gonnagetmine
i dont know if anyone's linked this yet, i didn't go through all 14 pages

http://www.handloads.com/misc/stoppi....asp?Caliber=0

look at all the ~90% ONE shot stops

In the table it lists 9mm and 9mm+P and 9mm+P+.

What's the difference?

[taters]

in the history of the world no man ever kept coming after being hit with 5 230 grain hydro shoc 45.and then said they felt like bee stings. how anyone could believe that is beyond my comprehension

[taters]

thats fbi stats. 9 out of 10 bgs hit with a .45 are stopped. 8 out of 10 bgs are stopped after being shot with .40 check it out

Originally posted by taters
thats fbi stats. 9 out of 10 bgs hit with a .45 are stopped. 8 out of 10 bgs are stopped after being shot with .40 check it out

Link to stats please?

[taters]

i have the article. it is based on the hatcher report. i got it when i took the 4 day handgun course at frontsight in pahrump nevada. i will sendit to you if you want but you must return it to me as it is the only copy i have.taters

[jhoagland]

just finished page one and realized over two hundred more post (at least) to go so maybe this was answered....what about a shot to the head? I got to believe a .45 acp to the head will drop even some one on pcp!

Originally posted by jhoagland
I got to believe a .45 acp to the head will drop even some one on pcp!

Any service caliber 9mm thru 45acp with there top loads should end in the same result when talking head shots.
MOHAA

[Doc Holliday]

Originally posted by taters
in the history of the world no man ever kept coming after being hit with 5 230 grain hydro shoc 45.and then said they felt like bee stings. how anyone could believe that is beyond my comprehension

Hey, it could happen, just ask the expert: