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Old 05-17-2014, 20:19   #1
PghJim
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Texas DPS Keep the 357 Sig

I have been out of pocket and do not know if this has been covered, but the rumor is that the officers did not want to leave the 357 Sig.

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...rns-sig-sauer/

Last edited by PghJim; 05-17-2014 at 20:21..
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Old 05-18-2014, 06:45   #2
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Wow, kind of a kick in the teeth of S&W, kind of a shame them being an American company and all. I have the M&P fs .40, the Shield 9mm, and ,40c and 9c. The full size .40 and the shield I really like. The 9c & .40c the grip length just bugs me. I contacted GAP floor plate company a couple of years ago to see when they were going to make them for the M&Pc models and they replied soon. Well that never happened so they sit in the safe. I think the floor plates would make them work for me.
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Old 05-18-2014, 09:45   #3
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I have a P226-9 and a M&P45. If I could only keep one it would be the Sig.
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Old 05-18-2014, 10:22   #4
Iceman cHucK
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Does anyone know what the problems were with the M&P 9 that caused the Texas DPS to bring back out the 357 SIG 226 ?
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Old 05-18-2014, 10:48   #5
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It is my bet that the troupers raised such a fuss at both the change in caliber and the change in gun that the administration just gave in. In order to get out of their contract, they would have to say that the guns did not perform. Whoever heard of a 9mm M&P having any reliability issues. I know it was not a popular move and they have had great success with the 357 sig.
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Old 05-18-2014, 13:28   #6
barth
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Sig 357 rules.
I like my Sig P239 357.
But I love my HK P2000/SK 357 Sig guns.

My only S&W handguns are pre-lock revolvers.
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Old 05-21-2014, 20:34   #7
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Texas is a union state I do believe. I don't think the troopers wanted to step down to 9mm. Didn't the M&P beat the Sig in their initial testing?
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:23   #8
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Didn't the M&P beat the Sig in their initial testing?
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Old 05-22-2014, 07:26   #9
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Old 05-22-2014, 13:04   #10
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Yeah, more details on the malfunctions would be interesting to read, if such report exists.
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Old 05-22-2014, 16:57   #11
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Yeah, more details on the malfunctions would be interesting to read, if such report exists.
Look, the pencil pushers made a bad decision but the academy trainers had a way to fix it. Who is going to argue with an academy trainer who says there are reliability issues with these M&Ps. There are no reliability issues with a 9mm M&P, but saying so was the only way out of the contract without loss. The initial decision may, and probably did, have to do with money, and maybe politics. But the Troupers, which includes their famed academy trainers could care less about those issues. They only care what is going to give them the best chance to survive, and the P226 and the 357 sig have proved themselves as far as those who have to carry a gun are concerned.

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Old 05-22-2014, 18:28   #12
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Look, the pencil pushers made a bad decision but the academy trainers had a way to fix it. Who is going to argue with an academy trainer who says there are reliability issues with these M&Ps. There are no reliability issues with a 9mm M&P, but saying so was the only way out of the contract without loss. The initial decision may, and probably did, have to do with money, and maybe politics. But the Troupers, which includes their famed academy trainers could care less about those issues. They only care what is going to give them the best chance to survive, and the P226 and the 357 sig have proved themselves as far as those who have to carry a gun are concerned.
I have a couple of M&P pistols, and if there are reports of problems, I would like to read about it. I hope DPS will release their findings. I don't completely buy the conspiracy on the troopers and the trainers part. There was a contract right? I doubt they can back out of it by claiming reliability problems without documented and substantiated reports. What would you do if you were Smith&Wesson in this case? Simply say thank you for giving us a shot, and good luck with Sig? I think not.
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Old 05-22-2014, 21:18   #13
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I have a couple of M&P pistols, and if there are reports of problems, I would like to read about it. I hope DPS will release their findings. I don't completely buy the conspiracy on the troopers and the trainers part. There was a contract right? I doubt they can back out of it by claiming reliability problems without documented and substantiated reports. What would you do if you were Smith&Wesson in this case? Simply say thank you for giving us a shot, and good luck with Sig? I think not.
Oh, I am sure there is a report, there would have to be. Am I am sure a couple of limp wristed new guys may have had a malfunction. S&W quickly said we will address everything and the response from the trainers is that we have sigs in storage and do not have time to have problems resolved.

They could have given S&W a chance. I am sure S&W would have shipped new guns for the trainees overnight. Google reliability issues with M&P 9mm and only this article comes up.
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Old 05-23-2014, 07:30   #14
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357 Sig is apparently not "dying" despite the prediction of some based on local ammo availability.
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Old 05-23-2014, 08:06   #15
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I think if it were not for internet sales, the 357 sig would die off. The fact that you just have to change your 40 barrel to get to a 357 sig helps too. When I was at one of the largest gun dealers in the area, I asked one of the guys as to what caliber I should buy in a Glock and he did not mention the 357 sig, even though they carried them. When I pointed to one and asked what is that. He said he did not know anything about it.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:21   #16
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I never had any failures with my M&Ps. However, my M&P9 was pretty inaccurate compared to my Glock 17.
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Old 05-23-2014, 09:48   #17
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357 Sig is apparently not "dying" despite the prediction of some based on local ammo availability.
I had two M&Ps, one an M&P9c that I swapped for an M&P40c and never warmed up to either though they functioned reliably. I have never shot a 226 but I have two P229s and two P239s in 40/357 and 9mm for each model. I would much rather use a Sig than an M&P.
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Old 05-23-2014, 16:30   #18
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Does anyone know what the problems were with the M&P 9 that caused the Texas DPS to bring back out the 357 SIG 226 ?
Lots of failures due to poor QC. Triggers, sights, extractors, etc. The word was that every single trainee had some type of failure. Compound that with the very few who pu$hed for the $witch and the many who opposed it.

If DPS does eventually switch to 9mm my money is on them using Sig P226 & P229. No new system to learn and all the old duty gear still works.
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Old 05-23-2014, 17:04   #19
PghJim
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Lots of failures due to poor QC. Triggers, sights, extractors, etc. The word was that every single trainee had some type of failure. Compound that with the very few who pu$hed for the $witch and the many who opposed it.

If DPS does eventually switch to 9mm my money is on them using Sig P226 & P229. No new system to learn and all the old duty gear still works.
Chuck - since you are from the great state of Texas, do you know the reason they wanted to go with the 9mm. My few contacts claimed that was not popular either.
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Old 05-23-2014, 18:15   #20
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Originally Posted by vtducrider View Post
I have a couple of M&P pistols, and if there are reports of problems, I would like to read about it. I hope DPS will release their findings. I don't completely buy the conspiracy on the troopers and the trainers part. There was a contract right? I doubt they can back out of it by claiming reliability problems without documented and substantiated reports. What would you do if you were Smith&Wesson in this case? Simply say thank you for giving us a shot, and good luck with Sig? I think not.
Actually, the dept. I work for had the same thing happen.
We had Sig 226/239 in 357sig. Never had problems. But when came time to replace the sigs, the chief stated that he couldn't afford Sig's, so we ordered the full size m&p and the sub compact m&p, in 357 Sig. We had problems from the start with those guns. S&W really tried to correct the numerous problems we were having, to no avail.
Finally, they bought back all the guns, and we switched to glock 31/33 gen 4's. Have not had any problems with the glocks.
There was just something about the m&P's in the 357sig round, that just didn't work. Unlike their other calibers. And why you will not see to many in the caliber.
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