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Old 03-28-2015, 12:35   #1
CDW4ME
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Why the 357 Sig Glock 32 is my current carry choice.

The 357 Sig Glock 32 offers these desirable features:
-A full grip without the need for any extended magazine base.
-Compact enough at 5'' height to IWB appendix carry
-13 + 1 capacity
-500+ #KE with a manageable recoil

I have converted a Glock 23 and 23C to 357 Sig by simply buying a Glock 32 barrel; I also swapped magazine followers, but that is me.
The converted model 23's have worked 100% and (as a bonus) brass ejection was improved with one of them versus as a 40.

357 HST averaged 1,364 fps for a 6 shots today out of my 2nd conversion, very consistent with what I got previously with the first one.

Why the 357 Sig instead of 40 or +P 9mm?

Comparing data I previously obtained:

Glock 32:
Winchester Ranger T 125 gr. @ 1,340 fps / 499# KE / PF 168
Speer Gold Dot 125 gr. @ 1,344 fps / 501# KE / PF 168
Federal HST 125 gr. @ 1,358 fps / 512# KE / PF 170

Glock 23:
Federal Hydra-Shok 180 gr. @ 969 fps / 375# KE / PF 174
Remington Golden Saber 165 gr. @ 1,048 fps / 402# KE / PF 173
Winchester Ranger T 165 @ 1,146 fps / 481# KE / PF 189

165 gr. 40 Ranger T is "hot"; compared to the 357 Sig KE is close, but that "hot" load generates about 11% more recoil than the 357 Sig.

180 gr. 40 Hydra-Shok is "mild"; compared to 357 Sig recoil is close, but the 357 Sig generates about 27% more KE than the "mild" 40.

Glock 19: (A typical 9mm+P and one of the hottest +P+)
Golden Saber 124 gr. +P @ 1,152 fps / 365# KE / PF 143
Ranger T 127 gr. +P+ @ 1,224 fps / 423# KE / PF 155

At 1,364 fps/517# KE, the 357 Sig offers 18% more KE than +P+ 9mm, for only 9% more recoil.
Compared to the +P 9mm the 357 offers 29% more KE, for just 16% more recoil.

The 357 Sig Glock 32 is my current carry choice.
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Old 03-28-2015, 12:45   #2
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Great numbers.
I love my G31.
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Old 03-28-2015, 13:03   #3
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Not sure but I bet the 9 +p+ has more pressure then the 357 sig also.
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Old 03-28-2015, 13:15   #4
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357 Sig Rules the Day

Quote:
Originally Posted by millerg23 View Post
Not sure but I bet the 9 +p+ has more pressure then the 357 sig also.
You are very wrong about that.
+P+ can be anything as it's not SAAMI rated.
But generally it's ~10% more than +P.
Check out Underwood and compare their 9MM vs 357 Sig.
IMHO, all things equal, 357 Sig > 9mm +P+.
SAAMI 9mm 35,001 PSI / 40 S&W 35,000 PSI / 357 Sig 40,000 PSI.

BTW 9mm bullets aren't generally designed to run at 357 Sig velocities.
Speer 9mm +P and 357 Sig are quite different bullets.

Last edited by barth; 03-28-2015 at 14:04..
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Old 03-28-2015, 13:50   #5
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I love my 357 Sigs. Ive carried my 33 religiously but haven't had a chance to carry my 32. Looking forward to giving it a try.
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Old 03-28-2015, 14:41   #6
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Just curious, how many rounds per month of .357 Sig do you practice with?
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Old 03-28-2015, 14:44   #7
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.40 has 11% more felt recoil over the .357

.357 has 9% more felt recoil over the 9


Last edited by cowboy1964; 03-28-2015 at 14:46..
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Old 03-28-2015, 15:16   #8
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In terms of tissue disrupted per ft-lb of recoil .357 Sig is the most inefficient of all service/duty calibers.
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Old 03-28-2015, 15:29   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by barth View Post
You are very wrong about that.
+P+ can be anything as it's not SAAMI rated.
But generally it's ~10% more than +P.
Check out Underwood and compare their 9MM vs 357 Sig.
IMHO, all things equal, 357 Sig > 9mm +P+.
SAAMI 9mm 35,001 PSI / 40 S&W 35,000 PSI / 357 Sig 40,000 PSI.

BTW 9mm bullets aren't generally designed to run at 357 Sig velocities.
Speer 9mm +P and 357 Sig are quite different bullets.
Some 9mm +P+ MAP is around 42 kpsi!!!!
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Old 03-28-2015, 15:31   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QED View Post
In terms of tissue disrupted per ft-lb of recoil .357 Sig is the most inefficient of all service/duty calibers.
I am not arguing with you, but out of curiosity why?

Please be safe
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Old 03-28-2015, 15:36   #11
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Quote:
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I am not arguing with you, but out of curiosity why?

Please be safe
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Too much velocity for the mass of the bullet is the short answer.
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Old 03-28-2015, 17:59   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by triggerjerk View Post
Great numbers.
I love my G31.
Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboy1964 View Post
Just curious, how many rounds per month of .357 Sig do you practice with?
I never claimed to shoot every month.

Back in 1992-1994 I shot about 10,000 - 12,000 rounds a year of 9mm and 45; I'm not a new shooter, but I am not burning through 250 rounds of ammo every weekend anymore.

I do not shoot that much, but I'm satisfied with what I do.

When I do shoot, I typically focus on double taps at 6 yards. I may take two or three pistols and shoot a couple magazines through each, goal keeping both 1st and 2nd shot on a 6 inch circle at 6-7 yards. It doesn't much mater if I'm shooting a Glock 23, 32, or 19 my split times in that specific drill (-landing two rounds inside the "coke bottle" of a silhouette is completely different) average .25 - .33 second regardless.
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Last edited by CDW4ME; 03-28-2015 at 18:08..
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Old 03-28-2015, 18:06   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QED View Post
In terms of tissue disrupted per ft-lb of recoil .357 Sig is the most inefficient of all service/duty calibers.
I get the impression that the 357 Sig is very good at tissue disruption looking at these videos:


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Old 03-28-2015, 18:19   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CDW4ME View Post
I get the impression that the 357 Sig is very good at tissue disruption looking at these videos:

.357 SIG Speer Gold Dot Ammo Test - YouTube

.357 SIG Federal HST Ammo Gel Test - YouTube
Sure, all service calibers are reasonably good at tissue disruption (just make sure you disrupt the right tissue, of course). HOWEVER, with .357 Sig you pay a greater price for a given amount of tissue disruption in terms of increased recoil -- compared to other service calibers.
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Old 03-28-2015, 20:18   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QED View Post
Sure, all service calibers are reasonably good at tissue disruption (just make sure you disrupt the right tissue, of course). HOWEVER, with .357 Sig you pay a greater price for a given amount of tissue disruption in terms of increased recoil -- compared to other service calibers.
My addition of a Wolff stainless steel guide rod and Wolff 20# recoil spring noticeably reduced the G-32's recoil. The pistol shoots very much like my compact 9mm pistol, just slightly sharper recoil but very similar characteristics.
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Old 03-28-2015, 21:44   #16
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for me I like the sig in my 27 for summer carry, its has a little lighter recoil than the .40. I am kicking the idea around about getting a barrel for my 23 but I really like the 165 HST or Gold Dot I carry in the 23. I had a sig barrel for the 23 but sold it and ammo with the last ammo shortage and bought a G30sf. I carry the 357sig HST and GD.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:17   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QED View Post
Sure, all service calibers are reasonably good at tissue disruption (just make sure you disrupt the right tissue, of course). HOWEVER, with .357 Sig you pay a greater price for a given amount of tissue disruption in terms of increased recoil -- compared to other service calibers.
You must remember that the people who care enough to carry a 357 Sig generally aren't going to quibble over a little more recoil. Personally I will "pay the price" to get a better SD round and with practice a shooter can adapt to the feel of a .40, 357 Sig .45 etc. and minimize any real world difference in performance as related to recoil.
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Old 03-29-2015, 01:51   #18
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Great info.
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Old 03-29-2015, 05:50   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by QED View Post
Some 9mm +P+ MAP is around 42 kpsi!!!!
As previously stated +P+ is not SAAMI rated.
You can hand load or over load whatever you want.
And blow up your gun if you like.

BTW what ridiculous factory 9mm is loaded to 42K PSI?
I'm thinking nothing...

Last edited by barth; 03-29-2015 at 06:08..
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Old 03-29-2015, 06:42   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Railsplitter View Post
You must remember that the people who care enough to carry a 357 Sig generally aren't going to quibble over a little more recoil. Personally I will "pay the price" to get a better SD round and with practice a shooter can adapt to the feel of a .40, 357 Sig .45 etc. and minimize any real world difference in performance as related to recoil.
IF there was evidence that 357 Sig is a better round (more tissue disruption where it matters) than .40 or .45 for SD, I would be willing to suffer a bit more recoil too. As it is, you get more recoil with 357 Sig for a given amount of tissue disruption compared to 9mm/.40/.45 (147/180/230 gr.). In the right pistol, the recoil from all service calibers is probably sufficiently manageable for most people -- with sufficient practice.
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