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Old 11-04-2013, 18:07   #1
TigerSpider
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23 Gen 4: 1000+ rounds zero probs, now malfunctioning

In the four months or so I have owned my Gen4 23 I fired more than 1200 rounds of a variety of high quality FMJ and JHP ammo with ZERO malfunctions. Early on I customized it a bit. First was a Glockmeister tungsten RSA. Then your basic extended slide lock and take down levers and other minor upgardes. Then a Travis Haley SKIMMER carry trigger, stainless pins, etc. Then a ACS tritium extractor. All of these things were done within the first 4 or 5 hundred rounds and I had at least 600 beyond the last mod with still ZERO malfunctions.

Then recently I replaced the stock barrel with a Lone Wolf stainless steel (standard length). I had nothing but problems with it. Loads of feed/FTF malfunctions. I contacted LW and they asked me to send the barrel back to them. Unfortunately, I don't still have their email that told me exactly how the "fixed" it, but they basically filed and polished and tested and sent it back. Here's where it gets interesting...

When I got it back I put another 200+ rounds of my usual target ammo, which is the flat-nosed stuff fmj mostly Federal 165 or 180 including American Eagle. I had ZERO problems and was very happy. Then I shot two days in a row as part of a class where I fired about 100 per day. Zero problems the first day, but then I didn't clean it before second day and I had the same malfunctions* again. Because it was a class after one or two problems I quickly put the stock barrel back in and, of course, had no problems. By this point I had about 1400 rounds through the stock barrel with ZERO problems. Here's where it gets more interesting... or weird.

So today was my first day at the range since the aforementioned class a couple weeks ago. The gun was thoroughly cleaned and I had put the LWD stainless barrel back in. I started having the malfunctions right away. I'd shoot a half dozen shots and then nothing. No click. Not reset. Nothing. No boom. I'd TAP, RACK, ASSESS. Shoot another round, maybe two and then same thing. Nada. After the last shot the slide goes back, but you can feel right away that there is a problem.

Today I took the LWD S/S barrel out and could see a metal shaving - a thin circular piece of the barrel circumference - at the feed ramp. I got to talking with the range officer and he wanted to blame the flat nosed FMJ .40 rounds. I told him that after the barrel was "fixed" and returned to me that I shot a couple hundred without problem. Regardless, I put the stock barrel back in to keep shooting. That was when I became real frustrated. For the first time ever, I started having the same problem with the stock barrel. Before switching was an immediate and permanent fix. Now I had exactly the same thing happening with the same frequency with the stock barrel. It seems the other malfunctions had done something non-barrel related that now affects using the stock barrel as well.

Anybody have any ideas? Obviously I am disappointed with the LWD barrel. They were quick to remedy before so I am sure they'll help me again. But to have problems now with the stock barrel in my favorite gun sucks. Guess I'm looking for a gunsmith, but I am interested in feedback.

If you read all of this, thanks for your patience!
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Last edited by TigerSpider; 11-04-2013 at 18:09..
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Old 11-04-2013, 19:24   #2
ken grant
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why not put it back the way it was new?
most likely will cure all problems.
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Old 11-04-2013, 19:29   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
why not put it back the way it was new?
most likely will cure all problems.
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Old 11-04-2013, 19:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ken grant View Post
why not put it back the way it was new?
most likely will cure all problems.
Did you read the whole post?

The replacement barrel "upgrade" was the source of problem, no doubt. And returning to the original barrel did solve problem until today. But now the stock barrel is also resulting in same problem. "The way it was new" isn't necessary. 1200, maybe 1400 rounds went fine with the other modifications.

I realize some people think "Glock perfection" means stock is best. But there are plenty of improvements that can be made. Glock has to maintain a certain price point. That can't really market the perfect Glock. That is why companies like Lone Wolf, Glockmeister, etc. exist. For those of us who want better than what $600 can buy. Every modification I've made has been an improvement. Only the Lone Wolf barrel has been a disappointment. Maybe I'll order a Storm Lake... Perfection is an ongoing process...
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Last edited by TigerSpider; 11-04-2013 at 19:37..
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:04   #5
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Tiger,

I'm sorry to hear about your problems with your Gen 4. It's a real shame as Lone Wolf usually has great products. If you really want to go for accuracy in your Glock, try a KKM barrel.

I had one in a Glock 22 and I'll attest to it's accuracy! Pretty much one hole groups when I did my part!

http://www.kkmprecision.com/shopping...page=cat&cat=G
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Old 11-05-2013, 02:21   #6
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Strange. I would try putting all of the stock parts back in the gun. Not just the barrel. See if that fixes it. If it does then work backwards. start adding your after market stuff and see where your gun stats to malfunction. Add one thing at a time and test it. The old process of elimination approach.

If the gun won't run with all stock parts in it I would give Glock a call our find a gun Smith.

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Old 11-05-2013, 16:00   #7
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I concur with NEOH212- the KKM barrels are great. I've had one for my Glock 22 for a while and they're accurate and have had 0 trouble feeding.
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Old 11-05-2013, 16:26   #8
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Sounds like the LW barrel might have had a flaw and then they fixed it.
LW barrel might have damaged something.
I would try just the stock RSA and Stock barrel and see what that does.
Make sure locking block and frame are not damaged.
If trigger includes trigger bar and other parts not just trigger, I would try stock trigger too.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:02   #9
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Glock Problems

My first Glock (a G23) was a great pistol until I started "improving" it with after market products. When I returned the G23 to its original configuration, the issues stopped. Since then, the only "improvement" I make is to change out the standard magazine release with a Vickers extended magazine release. Frankly, even the stock Glock will shoot better from a bench rest than I can shoot it free hand, so I have accepted that the Glock, mostly "as is", is an accurate and reliable personal firearm capable of shooting any type of factory ammunition flawlessly. So for my daily carry weapon (I live on a ranch in Central Texas) I don't need anything more than the standard factory Glock. And my G34 is a great competition pistol as is.
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:51   #10
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Originally Posted by LMGTEXAS View Post
My first Glock (a G23) was a great pistol until I started "improving" it with after market products. When I returned the G23 to its original configuration, the issues stopped. Since then, the only "improvement" I make is to change out the standard magazine release with a Vickers extended magazine release. Frankly, even the stock Glock will shoot better from a bench rest than I can shoot it free hand, so I have accepted that the Glock, mostly "as is", is an accurate and reliable personal firearm capable of shooting any type of factory ammunition flawlessly. So for my daily carry weapon (I live on a ranch in Central Texas) I don't need anything more than the standard factory Glock. And my G34 is a great competition pistol as is.
I very much appreciate your constructive and helpful reply. I understand what you're saying. The Glock (any Glock) is as close to perfect as handguns get. A Glock out of the box would be my choice over any other. My point is that there are ways to improve it. That is why there was a Gen 3 and is a Gen 4. Even just the simple extended magazine release you mention (a similar improvement made from Gen 3 to Gen 4) betters the gun. An extended take down lever and slide lock improve the gun. My aftermarket trigger, which by the way uses all OEM Glock parts, it is just modified a bit and ultra-polished, is much better than the very excellent stock trigger. I'd consider a Ford or Dodge truck to be pretty awesome right on the dealer's lot, but there are plenty of aftermarket improvements to be had.

Back to my issues... The gun shot great with all of my improvements until I got the Lone Wolf barrel. I will scrap it. I will not return the gun to the way I bought it though. That is unwarranted. What I do intend to do is do a complete detail strip and "super clean". Then I will fire it with the stock barrel and see if I have any malfunctions. If I do I will return it back to stock one modification at a time until it functions flawlessly. Since I shoot about 300 rounds each week it is easy to give it an extended test and any reversions to "as is" will happen one a week. I hope the barrel is the only culprit. If not, the ACS tritium extractor will be the next part to exchange. I doubt it will be necessary to return to the way it left Glock. Sure some people still wear tighty-whiteys. But aren't colored boxer briefs or boxers much better?
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:55   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RJHUB View Post
Sounds like the LW barrel might have had a flaw and then they fixed it.
LW barrel might have damaged something.
I would try just the stock RSA and Stock barrel and see what that does.
Make sure locking block and frame are not damaged.
If trigger includes trigger bar and other parts not just trigger, I would try stock trigger too.
Thanks for your reply. I am thinking the same as you. The LWD barrel obviously had a flaw, which was corrected for a short time after I returned it to them, but the flaw has resurfaced*. And I think that it damaged something else. As I wrote in my last reply, I am detail stripping, cleaning and inspecting everything today and will be checking everything one component at a time as suggested.

* I want to repeat that I am not saying there is anything wrong with Lone Wolf barrels or other products. I have been a repeat customer of LWD, am still a fan of their products, have other LWD products installed, and was impressed by how they handled my return of the barrel and how quickly they returned it to me. I consider my issues with their barrel to be a fluke. Unfortunately, their reworking only fixed the problem for a short time and I even saw a coil of metal shaving at the feed ramp when the issue recurred. I'm just "gun shy" to use their barrels again IN THIS PISTOL and would try another brand. I will have no problem ordering a LWD barrel again in the future when I do a new custom gun (really want to make a new 35 "race gun", and will probably get one of their slides, compensators, etc. for it. I wear my Lone Wolf hat often and my opinion of them hasn't changed. This was just a random bad experience.
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Last edited by TigerSpider; 11-08-2013 at 09:40.. Reason: added footnote
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Old 11-06-2013, 11:59   #12
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Originally Posted by Jakestir View Post
Strange. I would try putting all of the stock parts back in the gun. Not just the barrel. See if that fixes it. If it does then work backwards. start adding your after market stuff and see where your gun stats to malfunction. Add one thing at a time and test it. The old process of elimination approach.

If the gun won't run with all stock parts in it I would give Glock a call our find a gun Smith.

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Thanks for your reply. That is exactly what I am going to do, only in reverse. I will remove one "improvement" at a time until it functions flawlessly again. But if I can't be sure I will go back to stock first as you suggested and then add one after market part at a time. In fact, if I can't still causes problems during my next trip to the range, I will go right back to stock and make sure it fires great before wasting the time of successive steps. Until then, my G17 Gen 4, which has plenty of aftermarket mods and has had ZERO malfunctions in 2000 rounds, will be at my side. And I'm shopping for a 19 Gen 4 FDE and 30S [will wait until Gen 4 is released]
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Last edited by TigerSpider; 11-06-2013 at 12:09..
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Old 11-06-2013, 12:02   #13
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Thanks for the tips on the KKM barrels. My original intention was to have a precision barrel and once I solve the issues I will be willing to give another aftermarket barrel a try.
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Old 11-07-2013, 13:20   #14
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UPDATE: Great news! Fired 178 rounds today without issue. Last night I did a complete detail strip, clean, polish, lube and put the stock barrel back in and also reinstalled the stock extractor. For Monday's range session I will reinstall the ACS tritium extractor and see what happens.
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Old 11-07-2013, 17:31   #15
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Are the after market barrels usually more accurate than a Glock barrel ?
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Old 11-08-2013, 07:35   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sgt rock View Post
Are the after market barrels usually more accurate than a Glock barrel ?
Yes, a precision or match grade barrel is typically more accurate than a stock barrel in any firearm. I'm a pretty good shot with everything from my 17 to 1911s to a S&W 29 .44 magnum, but for some reason this 23 is the least accurate for me. So I tried to improve accuracy with the LWD stainless barrel. However, it was flawed and a disappointment*. I certainly am considering a KKM or Storm Lake to give a precision aftermarket barrel a chance.

The other reason for an after market barrel in a Glock is that Glock barrels have hexagonal rifling (octagonal in .45) and these polygonal barrels limit what types of ammo you can use and reloads, remanufactures and lead bullets are excluded (although I doubt many use the latter). Many prefer the more traditional rifling of most aftermarket barrels.


* I want to repeat that I am not saying there is anything wrong with Lone Wolf barrels or other products. I have been a repeat customer of LWD, am still a fan of their products, have other LWD products installed, and was impressed by how they handled my return of the barrel and how quickly they returned it to me. I consider my issues with their barrel to be a fluke. Unfortunately, their reworking only fixed the problem for a short time and I even saw a coil of metal shaving at the feed ramp when the issue recurred. I'm just "gun shy" to use their barrels again IN THIS PISTOL and would try another brand. I will have no problem ordering a LWD barrel again in the future when I do a new custom gun (really want to make a new 35 "race gun", and will probably get one of their slides, compensators, etc. for it. I wear my Lone Wolf hat often and my opinion of them hasn't changed. This was just a random bad experience.
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Last edited by TigerSpider; 11-08-2013 at 10:01.. Reason: added footnote
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Old 11-08-2013, 17:40   #17
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The enemy of good is better.

Hope you find what you are looking for and fix your problem.

As far as aftermarket barrels: they are usually stainless, not nitrided, use standard rifling, will not last as long as the stock-- they can call it what they want, but "match grade" is just a marketing label.

Yes there are many aftermarket choices after your consumer dollar- but the conversion barrel is the best logical use.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:36   #18
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Get rid of all that crap. First off the LW barrel is NOT better then the Glock Barrel. It's worse. It's locking blocks are poorly sized and it can actually ruin the locking block and the take down lever (which helps lock up the barrel). So a poorly fitting barrel can cause real issues that will eventually translate to the stock barrel. Take out the take down lever and see if it's bent. Get rid of those silly pins. What the heck do you need those for? It's not needed or helping a thing and potentially damaging "if" they are poorly made. I am not a "Glock Only" guy but I will only put something in the gun that actually serves a legitimate purpose.

My gun runs a KKM barrel. I had a LW but sold it. It was not a improvement over stock and was way tighter then needed. Lugs were oversized for no real purpose. Glock "-" connector, Wolf Springs, Wolf Guide rod, Good set of sights. The gun is great. I have a extra power RSA but it didn't do much, didn't make things worse and made extraction with minor loads slightly more consistent so I am keeping it for a while. If I didn't shoot lead exclusively I would not even run a KKM. I run lead in stock Glock Barrels but prefer to not have to watch the barrel so closely for lead build up. It never builds up but the KKM is "normal rifling" so I guess I just worry less about it. More a piece of mind thing. BTW, I have over 100K rounds in my G34. And the guns just runs and runs. Moslty because I make quality ammo and I didn't fiddle with the design to much to screw it up. Glock makes good parts. No reason to replace it with inferior aftermarket when Glock actually make most the parts better from the start.
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Old 11-12-2013, 12:55   #19
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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Get rid of all that crap. First off the LW barrel is NOT better then the Glock Barrel. It's worse.
Did you miss the part where I said it sucked and that it is gone? I have learned about LW barrels.

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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
Get rid of those silly pins.
Silly pins?



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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
My gun runs a KKM barrel. ... Glock "-" connector, Wolf Springs, Wolf Guide rod, Good set of sights.
Sounds like a lot of changes for a guy who states get rid of all that crap.

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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
BTW, I have over 100K rounds in my G34. And the guns just runs and runs.
Glock perfection.

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Originally Posted by Colorado4Wheel View Post
No reason to replace it with inferior aftermarket when Glock actually make most the parts better from the start.
Glad your gun is completely stock.
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Old 11-12-2013, 15:52   #20
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Originally Posted by TigerSpider View Post
Did you miss the part where I said it sucked and that it is gone? I have learned about LW barrels.



Silly pins?





Sounds like a lot of changes for a guy who states get rid of all that crap.



Glock perfection.



Glad your gun is completely stock.
Other then Wolff Springs and Wolf Guide rod it would be completely stock if I didn't shoot so much lead. My other Glock is completely stock. Only my USPSA gun is modded. Your the guy with a bunch of goofy stuff on the gun that doesn't work. I was pointing towards the stuff that could have been damaged by you throwing parts at it. My parts that are not stock actually do something worthwhile. Glock makes a perfectly good reduced power connector, They however don't make reduced power springs. Wolff does. If I was shooting factory full power ammo I would also not be using the wolff recoil assembly either. I would be using the stock items there as well. Basically my heavily modded race gun has Glock parts except springs and the RSA. I could easily live with out the RSA. But I do like the lighter springs for improved trigger feel.

Locking Block in the frame
Take down lever
Frame (because of those "silly pins", what the heck do you need pins for anyway)

Just to start.
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Last edited by Colorado4Wheel; 11-12-2013 at 15:58..
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