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Old 11-22-2014, 09:55   #1
cgfitch
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CCR vs Fail Zero -Nickel Boron Plating

I am considering having the slide on my G42 nickel Boron plated. CCR currently has it on sale for around $89.00. Fail Zero charges $125.00. I'm not concerned about the price because there's not that much difference. What I would like is some feedback from people who have used both services. Which one would you recommend and why? Thanks
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Old 11-22-2014, 15:21   #2
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I have a G17 that I had CCR coat in their matte stainless a few years back. It is nice, cleans up well, though it does wear more than I'd like, especially on the inside of the slide. Outside is not that bad considering it's my IDPA gun and I draw a lot from the holster. If I was to get another slide refinished I would maybe use their CP II. Or just go with Robar NP3+.
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Old 11-23-2014, 00:08   #3
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My G30S slide is at CCR for their CP II treatment. I'll post some pics when it comes home.

I've used CCR many times in the past and have never had a problem with their finishes!
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Old 11-23-2014, 06:04   #4
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CCR's CP II is a nice addition and with their current sale...

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Old 11-23-2014, 08:45   #5
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Go with CCR.
I have several Glocks redone in CPII.

I just had another slide done by CCR. Not in CPII though, I did house black this time on a lonewolf slide for my frankenGlock.
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Old 11-23-2014, 17:56   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cgfitch View Post
I am considering having the slide on my G42 nickel Boron plated. CCR currently has it on sale for around $89.00. Fail Zero charges $125.00. I'm not concerned about the price because there's not that much difference. What I would like is some feedback from people who have used both services. Which one would you recommend and why? Thanks
I would not plate a Glock slide in N/B, its brings nothing of real value to the steel, and it looks awful as it begins to accrue scratches, which it definitely will be doing. I saw four of these plated Glocks recently, all looked as though they had been tied to the bumper of an auto and dragged through the streets. N/B offers no advantage over the gas/nitride steel hardening all Glock steel is treated too.

The little bit of gain in lubricity being hardly worth the effort, and definitely not worth the cost. You already can run a Glock with little to no lube as it is. Gas/nitride is inferior to the old Glock tenifer bathed steel, but its still far better then the N/B plating.
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Old 11-24-2014, 00:20   #7
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Just remember DO NOT get any type of Bore Cleaner or ANYTHING with Ammonia on the plating or it will flake and/or peel off slowly over time.

If you want something that looks good and is pretty much chemical proof better off Cerakoting it.
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Old 11-24-2014, 06:29   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunsmith Dan View Post
Just remember DO NOT get any type of Bore Cleaner or ANYTHING with Ammonia on the plating or it will flake and/or peel off slowly over time.

If you want something that looks good and is pretty much chemical proof better off Cerakoting it.
that is true of regular Nickel with a copper base...Electroless Nickel (the Nickel in Nickel Boron) has no copper base...I've never had an issue using cleaners that might have ammonia on my EN pistols since buying my first in 1987...

...as for scratches...anything that would scratch your Nickel Boron pistol will probably scratch any finish...

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Old 11-24-2014, 15:22   #9
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Actually it is more true on NiB coating than regular nickel plate to have a copper base. Copper plate has good build up properties and is normally used to fill in small pits, scratches and deep tooling marks then polished down to high polish then plated with a much harder coating (Nickel, NiB, Nickel + Chrome, Cobalt). That is the way to get a truly smooth and slick surface before final layer of plating is done.

While you might have been very lucky if you call the companies that do NiB platings that will be one of the main warnings they will tell you when cleaning.

If the company that is doing the NiB plating tells you they do not do a copper plate then polish before NiB plating then find someone else (normally the really cheap guys do not do this). The benefit you receive from a properly done NiB plating is well justified in the amount of money you pay for it, ones done on the cheap do not have the same performance.
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Last edited by Gunsmith Dan; 11-24-2014 at 15:36..
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Old 11-25-2014, 06:54   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gunsmith Dan View Post
Actually it is more true on NiB coating than regular nickel plate to have a copper base. Copper plate has good build up properties and is normally used to fill in small pits, scratches and deep tooling marks then polished down to high polish then plated with a much harder coating (Nickel, NiB, Nickel + Chrome, Cobalt). That is the way to get a truly smooth and slick surface before final layer of plating is done.

While you might have been very lucky if you call the companies that do NiB platings that will be one of the main warnings they will tell you when cleaning.

If the company that is doing the NiB plating tells you they do not do a copper plate then polish before NiB plating then find someone else (normally the really cheap guys do not do this). The benefit you receive from a properly done NiB plating is well justified in the amount of money you pay for it, ones done on the cheap do not have the same performance.
interesting you say this as both Klein Plating (at the time - EN) and CCR on this Forum (Cera Plate II) have mentioned that they don't use copper and that the use of ammonia cleaners is not a worry...I can't speak of NiB but Cera Plate II is Nickel Boron...

Thanks...I will look into this further...I do however have nearly 30 years experience with EN plated pistols but I don't seek out ammonia based cleaners...

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Old 11-25-2014, 07:35   #11
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a response on another Forum to a similar claim...

Hello Everyone,

This is an interesting thread and I would like to weigh in on the conversation. As current owner and an employee whose first job at Klein Plating was finishing Sig Sauer pistols, I can with authority say ALL Sig's that we plated were finished in electroless nickel. At no point did we ever use a copper underplate. We offered Sig a few different "looks" in terms of the finish, but all of them were plated to an internal quality specification requiring electroless nickel.

I hope this helps resolve the debate. Please let me know if you have any other questions regarding the plating services we used to offer to Sig Sauer.

Joe Dudenhoeffer
President
Klein Plating Works, Inc.
2020 Greengarden Road
Erie, PA 16502


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Old 11-25-2014, 19:45   #12
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The problem is you are comparing new from factory to used with different coating to be switched to NiB (the abbreviation for Nickel Boron coatings).

A new from factory should have no surface defects so no copper plating is needed.

BUT

A used firearm with a different coating that has wear and tear does need a copper plate to smooth out and fill in defects to have a perfectly smooth surface. While yes you can have someone polish out the defects, that is a lot more time consuming and expensive than using copper plate to fill defects then polishing the copper (much softer than steel). You also have to consider that polishing the base metal instead of a plate can cause tolerance issues which can only be repaired by plating.

Then from a chemical standpoint a nickel plate over a copper plate provides much greater adhesion between the layers than a straight nickel plate would, regardless of Electro or Electroless plating.

Does that mean it is a crappy job ..... no it does not BUT if you gonna spend the money might as well have the best possible plating process that wears and lasts the longest.
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Last edited by Gunsmith Dan; 11-25-2014 at 19:56..
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Old 11-26-2014, 05:57   #13
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the pistols I sent to Klein Plating were used...and followed the same process...same with CCR using their CP II (Nickel Boron)...applied to used pistols...no copper...as I recall...
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Last edited by silversport; 11-27-2014 at 07:11..
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Old 11-26-2014, 07:44   #14
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CPII is an Nickel/Boron Nitride plating process. It is an electroless process that you do not use a copper strike with.

If the slide has dings dents or rust pits the proper way is to remove them before plating. The key is in the prep work that we do to the substrate.

We do parkerize but prior to applying our Cera-Hide finish not our CPII

Look for our BLACK FRIDAY GLOCK SPECIAL TOMORROW
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Old 11-26-2014, 16:23   #15
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Lots of confusion on the subtle distinction between steel treatment and surface applied finish. The original slide and barrel are Nitride treated, then coated black on the surface-- electroless finish applied will not affect the treatment, if anything it is an added benefit, as well as more resistant to wear than the factory surface black coat.

At best, it is silly to need any "coating" on a Glock, since the steel has been treated, but these Nickel Boron options do hide the wear and tear marks on the Glock surface black coat. Purely cosmetic, and it beats paint type surfacing.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Tacoma View Post
I would not plate a Glock slide in N/B, its brings nothing of real value to the steel, and it looks awful as it begins to accrue scratches, which it definitely will be doing. I saw four of these plated Glocks recently, all looked as though they had been tied to the bumper of an auto and dragged through the streets. N/B offers no advantage over the gas/nitride steel hardening all Glock steel is treated too.

The little bit of gain in lubricity being hardly worth the effort, and definitely not worth the cost. You already can run a Glock with little to no lube as it is. Gas/nitride is inferior to the old Glock tenifer bathed steel, but its still far better then the N/B plating.

Last edited by cciman; 11-26-2014 at 16:24..
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Old 11-27-2014, 00:16   #16
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CCR is great to deal with. Good people. My G20 with CPII


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Old 11-27-2014, 07:04   #17
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I had my carry/IDPA gun done by CCR(cpii). After 8k rounds and unknown draws it still looks great. They have a great price, great costumer service and a very fast turn around.
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Old 11-27-2014, 07:11   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccr View Post
CPII is an Nickel/Boron Nitride plating process. It is an electroless process that you do not use a copper strike with.

If the slide has dings dents or rust pits the proper way is to remove them before plating. The key is in the prep work that we do to the substrate.

We do parkerize but prior to applying our Cera-Hide finish not our CPII

Look for our BLACK FRIDAY GLOCK SPECIAL TOMORROW
thanks for clearing that up...

Bill
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Old 12-14-2014, 19:10   #19
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I've had nothing but good luck with CCR. They were in slow-a down mode for a few months (Mary had a stroke but apparently has recovered fully) and their work has been superb. I've sent in a Colt RG that had the factory finish practically scrapped off from my Kydex holster and when I got it back it looked better than new. Also sent in a Surplus G3 collapsable stock that looked like it went to war (and it might have) and it came back factory new. Went with house black including the internals. Can't say enough nice things *except* they're not great at returning email's so plan on calling if you need to check progress on something, otherwise, recommend without hesitation. Am sending in a Tavor BCG as soon as I can get a loaner rifle.

Last edited by Justdave1; 12-14-2014 at 19:13..
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