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Old 10-02-2007, 21:08   #441
Blinky
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Quote:
Originally posted by speck
Yeah, I knew she was an alpha female. And oh boy does she regard me as 'above' her ... my girlfriend too. We don't have any problems with her in the home.

Ok. I'll work with a professional in the car...

Re: the park -- she down-stays just fine, even up to an hour. She'll down stay this long at home too. The only time we have the issue is if a jogger or bicyclist passes nearby.. there's a biking/jogging path right outside of the fence. The other problem is getting her attention and getting her to break off the chase. I'll see if my friend still has the remote correction collar that she bought and decided not to use.
Well, if the down stays are good, try this. When she is in a down stay have your girlfriend play the role of a jogger/bicyclist. Keep the leash on the dog and before your girlfriend goes by the house, discreetly put your foot on the leash. When she tries to get up, she'll get a correction. Toss in a good firm NO and maybe a reward when she calms down and after a little while things should work themselves out.

This just my suggestion. If Mike has a different idea then you should try that first.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:29   #442
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That will work

Also, you can do some work inside your local pet store. Just tell the employees ahead of time so they know what is going on. Most times they will help you for free.
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Old 10-03-2007, 08:51   #443
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Anyone have a suggestion on working with a leash agressive dog?

To make a long story short, my dog was attacked while on his leash by a pit bull. I was trying to let him off so that he could fight the battle unrestrained, but we got all tangled up. Luckily he was able to pin pit, and the pit ran off( I don't think it was full grown), but I think it was a very traumatizing experience for him.

If people bring dogs over to the house and he is properly introduced to them, they have a good time, and being a 100lb dog, he is still gentle enough to play with my yorkie and not hurt her. He is nice around people, and friendly with kids.

If he is off leash, he will even play with dogs just fine that he has met, like say at a dog park.

Unfortunately, when you take him out on a leash, and he encounters a strange dog, he will bark in a very menacing manner. He obviously feels extremely vulnerable on his leash, and I don't seem to be helping.

Any ideas of what I can do to help my buddy out? Is this something I may need a professional trainer for? I just don't know if the problem is now more me, or him. I wonder if I have pent up apprehension now that I am not even aware of, causing him to get that way.
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:00   #444
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Re: Anyone have a suggestion on working with a leash agressive dog?

Quote:
Originally posted by Guod
I just don't know if the problem is now more me, or him. I wonder if I have pent up apprehension now that I am not even aware of, causing him to get that way.

BINGO!
You could try an E-collar but again we need to deal with you more than the dog.
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Old 10-03-2007, 11:33   #445
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If there was one thing I would say if I had to analyze myself, I would say that I probably tense up as we approach a dog. I am preparing in case he freaks, as I would certainly not want to lose hold of him, so anticipate, and I am sure he can sense this.

I tried a prong collar, which I also couple with another collar in case the prong collar "pops" during correction, as I have heard they can do. The thing is, I have tried lots of different types of collars and leads, and nothing has ever worked long term. Like the prong collar is fine when I am just correcting him with it for little things, which really are few and far between as he is pretty good just walking and stuff, and if I tell him to stop doing something, he will stop. But when it comes to dog incidents, he acts like the prong collar isn't even there

I have considered e-collars, but have been worried that if I correct him during an "incident" with it, he will actually think it is the other dog causing the shock, and will become more aggressive.

if I were to try one, any suggestions on material to learn to properly use it, and what collar to use?

It's all just very depressing in a way, because he used to be such a happy go lucky dog, but some jerk with no experience with pit's decided to just let his newly adopted dog off leash in a park, and now I have to deal with the results.
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Old 10-03-2007, 16:13   #446
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Quote:
Originally posted by Guod
If there was one thing I would say if I had to analyze myself, I would say that I probably tense up as we approach a dog. I am preparing in case he freaks, as I would certainly not want to lose hold of him, so anticipate, and I am sure he can sense this.
Here in lies your work. I'm positive he is picking up your tension. Work on this and just using a normal metal "choker" collar and do a lot of down stays in front of other dogs. When you can get him to drop on a hand signal from 20-50ft with dogs around and then stay for 30-45minutes, you will have won!.

1 page back for e-collar stuff
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Old 10-03-2007, 17:20   #447
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OK, so let me know if this seems like a good plan. I am going to take him to the local dog park where there are always people getting in and out of cars with dogs and walking them to the play area. Then from a distance, when I see a dog, I will get him into a down/stay, and then allow him to acknowledge the dog is there, but correct him if he begins getting excited. Basically just have him look at the dog.

Then over time, do this and get closer and closer and closer until I can have him calm within a close distance of other dogs.

The reason I kinda ask this is because some people would say that as soon as they react you are supposed to turn around and walk away. I was worried that I was setting the dog up for a confrontation by having him see the dog, and then forcing him to stay and look at it. Although this was what my first inclination was to do.

And of course number one, I need to try and be confident, and have zero reaction myself to the "sighting" of another dog.

Thanks for your help
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Old 10-04-2007, 15:24   #448
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Actually had an unexpected crazy incident today. Was walking both of my dogs...the one in question, and the little yorkie. I decided to just go with a straight choker like you said, and made sure it was up nice and high.

Well we were walking in a very narrow passage, basically it's a walkway between the fences of two houses and out into a park. Well there were a couple dogs barking at this one house, and next thing I know, this little bugger of a pug or some such actually comes out from a hole dug under the fence. My large dog definitely started to get a little nutz, but I simply put some pressure on the chain, and he pretty much calmed. The yorkie on the other hand was freaking...lol

I stayed calm, and thats what I think worked with the big guy. I figured that should the pug or whatever it was come to attack, he would either rethink by the time he got there, or my dog would would give him a pretty good whoopin well before he got to the yorkie...of course last resort, I would would throw its stupid butt back over the fence.

Had another "incident" later where a dog kinda came out of nowhere, I remained calm as he started to "go after it" but with a little pressure he calmed down and all was well

I was really happy with him and me. Next test will be the dog park.
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Old 10-04-2007, 15:58   #449
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Right on Guod!! It's amazing how much the little things matter isn't it? A relaxed state of mind coupled with the proper tools and technique is a wonderful thing.
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Last edited by Blinky; 10-07-2007 at 22:20..
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Old 10-05-2007, 14:02   #450
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The gentleman that taught me everything I know, the very first day of training he told me "That leash is an electrical power line going straight from your heart to the dog’s brain". If you are anxious, uncomfortable, angry, etc, your dog, will pickup on those emotions immediately.

One more thing, you don’t want your dog to even look at the oncoming dog, he should be focused on you and nothing but you. Be a little more aggressive and take command. If you don’t, he will.

Sounds like you aare making leaps and bounds!

I wish you the best!
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Old 10-09-2007, 21:21   #451
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I didnt read through all 18 pages of this thread, but Im curious to know if you use the clickers?? I started Maggie(1year and 10 months old yellow lab/chow mix that came from the St Augustine humane society) tonight with the clicker. She has already figured out, if I click she gets a treat. And this worked well when she roaming through the yard attacking lizards this evening. How long should I do the charging/loading thing(click treat), before I can expect her to learn to mark the behavior?? She has a very high energy level.

The real test will come in the morning when she is outside and trying to murder the lizard overpopulation in the yard. I can not make her come when she is trying to get them. But she did come tonight when I was clicking.

Before the clicker stuff, she has already learned sit, down, stand, hugs(ok its a version of a hug), fetch. Stay, rollover, crawl are the next things she probably will learn.

And more thing. If she pees in the house,(it has happened 3 times), should I use vinegar and a water mix(its carpet near the backdoor.)or some of the commerical stuff. She will not go in the crate at all. And I try to limit her water intake at night, because if I dont she is up and awake at 630 in the morning.

Heres a pic from their web page
http://www.staugustinehumanesociety....gs_puppies.htm
She is on the left side with 2 pics.

Here is a second from home...
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Old 10-09-2007, 21:25   #452
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and one from the razr fone. She learned to climb in the tub, even I mention the word. Tub, and she is in there. Absolutley loves water!!

The humane society in St. Aug hasnt taken her picture down yet, even though I adopted her about 2 weeks ago or so..

Sorry about the quality sometimes the razr fones just take a sh***** picture.
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Old 10-10-2007, 10:54   #453
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Every trainer has their "thing" that works best for them. I have used a clicker in the past with a few dogs with good success and it can be a great tool, however, I have found it all goes back to timing with praise and/or rewards.
If you need it to help you learn timing more power to you. It will work.
I “prefer” to use food rewards only because it makes the dogs so much happier about learning and it also clarifies what I want of them.
Good luck with your clicker
Mike
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Old 10-16-2007, 12:29   #454
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for the unrinatingin the house
I tried this stuff and it works for my dobe and my 7 yr old malti-poo who sometimes marks in the house.

http://www.getseriousproducts.com/

Unlike vinegar and ammonia, this takes the "Pheramone" out of the spot, making the dog forget to come back to that spot.
That said, he/she may try to go somewhere else, which is where just keep an eye on em and their water intake, since he/she is still kinda young til they get it.
Worked for me.
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Old 10-21-2007, 10:40   #455
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For what it's worth I agree with G20.. We have four german shepherds that all train one way or another.. In my humble view, G20 hit the nail on the head.. proper timing with praise and rewards works every bit as good as clickers. The other thing is, using a clicker requires you to have it in your hand all the time.. and that can make it harder to handle leads, treats, toys and other equipment during training sessions.. And hey, what happens when you get on the field only to discover you've forgotten your clicker.. Finally, and this is a "me" thing.. I just feel that using my voice and my body language, and not a mechanical device, leads to a stronger bond with my dogs... because it's what they hear and know and both on and off the training field.. hey, I could be totally off base but again, that's just how I feel.. Anyway, good luck and have fun..


Cheers

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Old 10-31-2007, 09:58   #456
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Now how do I train this Yorkshire Terrier?

Some of you may remember my post from a while back where I had a GSD mix that was experiencing leash aggression because of a time he was attacked. It was suggested that I just go with a straight choker and control my anxiety. Well I did that, and it started to work quite well. He was still having some ocassional sessions with other dogs, so I decided to try out a "leerburg dominant dog collar". All I can say is wow. With this thing, because of the fitting style, I can cut off his "session" before he even gets a chance to fully lunge. I am amazed at how well it works, as I am able to calmly just lift up and cut off his air supply before he can get going, and even bark. Plus he is generally calm immediately after I do that, so I can release him, and he will be calm, even if the dog is still there and barking at him. I rarely even have to correct him anymore.

Anyway, the Yorkie seems to have picked up where the other dog left off. Unfortunately I think she learned it from him during his "bad" stage, but I don't know how to stop her. I am only used to working with dogs I can get "physical" with. I would imagine a choke collar may just rip the little dogs head off and do damage to her. I tried grabbing her and muzzling her with my hand for a few moments, but that doesnt seem to be working. Any ideas? Does she need some sort of a small gentle leader or something. Probably something that could redirect her, and close her mouth at the same time would be good. This is, of course, supposed to be my wifes dog, and I have done little training with her, A) because I don't have time, and B) because it's supposed to be her dog. The dog does get plenty of excercise and I take her on almost all walks. She is good as far as housetraining and such, but my wife lets her on furniture and the bed and stuff, and I don't think thats helping.

I am a real softie when it comes to small animals. My wife will smack the cat if he gets on the counter, whereas the cat just looks at me and knows I wont do crap. I just can't bring myself to smack a little cat...lol I just gently nudge him off.
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Old 10-31-2007, 10:16   #457
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Glad to hear we got the GSD in shape. I have never heard of that type of collar, but after some research, I see it operates exactly like a metal choker with small links.

Guod,
You learned to use a tool to correct the GSD’s behavior. Why would you think any differently about a small dog? They all think the same way, size really doesn’t matter. (Being a dog would be good! )
You need to be the leader, there are lots of tools out there to use. If you prefer to use a Halti collar and it gets the job done, use it. If it doesn’t, it ain’t the collar that failed.
Bottom line, use what works for you and what you feel comfortable with.

BTW, tell wifey to stop smacking the cat. If you don’t get your message thru within 3 corrections the animal doesn’t understand what you want. Try a squirt bottle set on jet stream.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:37   #458
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I think I will give a halti a try with her,and see what happens. BTW, I also noticed that she seems to be in heat, so that may have something to do with the behavior. At least maybe making it more pronounced.

As far as the smacking of the cat. Oh, he knows what she wants, if she even looks at him, he will jump of the counter. For instance the other night she was on the couch, and the cat had jumped on the counter. I am standing there staring at him, and he just kept sitting there. So then I pointed it out to my wife, she turned around, and he immediately jumped down. Maybe ill just use a squirt bottle. Good call.

As far as the collar, whats good is that the way it clips allows for the collar to be much smaller than one that would need to slip over the head. This way the corrections are much quicker, because there is barely any travel between when correction begun, and when it is actually applied. With this collar I can correct him before he even has the opportunity to bark. He starts to lunge, and I can correct him before he can even begin to his action.
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Old 10-31-2007, 12:45   #459
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Ok, being heat may effect her behavior, I will give her that. Let us know how it works out for you.
Congrats on learning how to work the collar! Again if it works for you, use it. Next time in the pet store, try a small link metal or even a cloth choker and see if your timing is still there. After all, that is what we are discussing. There is no magic bullet if ya know what I mean.
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Old 11-04-2007, 23:34   #460
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Wow, G20man, this is quite a thread!

I skimmed through all of it, but not super-thoroughly, so forgive me if the answer to my questions are back on page 8.

Background: Rescue dog from Puerto Rico, it's safe to assume he was significantly abused. Oh, and he's just a MUTT (God love him!). 30lbs, knee-high, solid, medium in all ways. Was in foster home in PR for a couple of months, then fostered locally for two or three more "because he was so shy." I'm not dog experienced, but I've done a TON of reading, and I don't think he's shy; he's submissive. *shrug*

So anyway, we get him six months ago, at about 10 months of age. Great with us, great with the kids, hadn't had a LICK of training. I caught him in the act of peeing in the house ONCE, scolded him, took him outside, gave the command 'go potty,' and it was like he said, "Oh, you don't want me to pee in the house? Why didn't you say so? Okay, I won't."

Foster mom liked him to put his paws up on her jacket pocket to ask for a treat. Cured him of that with a firm OFF and ignoring him for a few seconds.

Spent a couple of days teaching: Sit, Down, Stay, and Release - all with words or hand signals. Also knows Kennel, Mat (bed outside the kennel), and Give as words.

For correction, I usually grunt "Aaaant" somewhat like a "wrong answer" buzzer on a game show. He stops the incorrect behavior and takes a submissive posture.

Two issues:

Big One: He's protective to a fault.

He's got this 'berzerk' bark he uses sometimes. For example, if he's out in the yard he 'regular' barks if someone walks by. He 'berzerk' barks if someone goes buy with a kid in a noisy little red wagon or if a loud motorcycle drives by too slowly. The berzerk bark is snarly and he snorts when he breathes in between barks. His brain is in overdrive and he can't hear me. He has one other bark: If we're inside and he hears a suspicious noise, he does a low 'hoof/woof' bark that says "Mom, something's up, let's check it out." If I don't respond to that, he noses me till I do - I LIKE that behaviour.

Further, he does not believe that anyone should be allowed in our home, besides the family and one local relative. He has nipped at the shoes of child guests (I kennelled him for the duration of the play date). He nipped at a friend's jeans-covered ankle and left two small bruises.

We got trick-or-treaters on Halloween. I had him separated from the door with a 'dog board'. He jumped behind it (not over it - thank God!), doing the 'berzerk' bark. I think he goes more berzerk over kids than adults (not good).

He's really good with MY kids. The 8 yo likes to be bossy, so they do fine. The 6 yo wants to be his friend. He takes a little advantage of her, but NEVER nips or shows aggression, just some dominant body postures (to which she is oblivious). I'm working with her on being more bossy.

I got a dog because I wanted a 2nd set of ears, and I wanted a dog that would be protective. Consequently, I haven't commented (to him) much when he barks at passers by - because I dont' know what to 'say.' I want him to be protective, but I also want him to shut up when I say so.

Second issue: He doesn't potty on the leash. Foster mom told me so, and she seems correct. He held it for 12 hours when we drove to visit grandma...then peed 3 times in 10 minutes. lol But there may come a time when he can NOT be off leash; he needs to get over this.

After reading thru this thread, I know what you're going to say about issue number two: leash him to your waist. Okay, I'll consider that, but I'm more worried about the protectiveness.

The other thing I picked up from this thread is that his "stay" is not very good. If there's a food treat pending, he will stay longer than if I just downstay him. But he tries to belly crawl closer. I'll start working on that. I wasn't sure just how much was to be expected of a downstay at this age (15-18 months, estimated). One idea I have is to downstay him while his breakfast/dinner is prepared. It takes about 10 minutes (for the broth to soak into the kibble -Nutro, BTW, which is then mixed with a spoonful of homemade). Dh thought that was way too long, but I think now that that is probably a good interim goal.

What else do I need? Where do I start?

Thanks a MILLION!!!!!
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