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Old 06-14-2005, 09:57   #176
Quail Fat
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
There is a very simple answer to that one, the chamber will not rupture upon case head separation, the case fails at the six oclock position and high pressure gases are blown out thru the magwell...
Sometimes the Glock chamber will rupture upon case head separation yet H&Ks, Sigs and XDs do not.

This won't happen to an XD
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:08   #177
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
Sometimes the Glock chamber will rupture upon case head separation yet H&Ks, Sigs and XDs do not.

This won't happen to an XD
Never say never my friend, neither of us can state categorically that there are no xd or hk barrels out there with blown chambers, only a fool would do so, when at any time he could be proven to be wrong, there is also the numbers thing, there are hundreds of thousands more glocks out there than hk or xd combined, therefore there is a much larger chance that any given thing is going to happen in the glock.
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:24   #178
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
Never say never my friend, neither of us can state categorically that there are no xd or hk barrels out there with blown chambers, only a fool would do so, when at any time he could be proven to be wrong, there is also the numbers thing, there are hundreds of thousands more glocks out there than hk or xd combined, therefore there is a much larger chance that any given thing is going to happen in the glock.
There are more 1911s out there than Glock 21s. Not too many reports of 1911 chambers going south..

;b
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Old 06-14-2005, 10:45   #179
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After many years of shooting and reading, I have come to the conclusion that all guns, under the proper (bad) conditions, can explode causing damage (call it a KB or what ever you want). To determine the cause of the explosion damage, a full examination of all components is required and as many variables need to be eliminated as possible.

Even the massive 8 inch guns of the USS IOWA could not contain a charge that was too hot for a heavy projectile, but it took a team of experts to find the true cause. Check out below for details.

http://anil299.tripod.com/vol_003_no...b/page004.html

In general, the dynamics of over pressure explosions causing damage are the same for all types of pistols, revolvers, rifles, shot guns and cannons. In the most basic terms, the damage relates to to how high the pressure gets, how fast the pressure is lowered by venting and where the venting occurs. Variables such as locked/unlocked breach, chamber/barrel thickness, heavy or light recoil springs, material used in construction, type and weight of powder charge, primer, design and material of casing, head spacing, design and fit of bullet, rifling, condition of gun, and etc.,etc., all factor into the end result. The true or full cause of a KB may prove to be very simple or very complicated.

The pressure caused by the expanding gas of the burning powder must vent (be released) somewhere unless the chamber/barrel is strong enough to fully contain it. In all probability, it will vent first at the point of least resistance. Without an obstructed barrel, given proper a proper powder charge, proper head spacing and a properly sized bullet, the normal point of least resistance is to push the projectile (bullet) down the barrel. However, all may not be proper or normal.

If a round is double charged with a fast burning powder or the bullet is too heavy for the charge, an over pressure condition will result -KB. If a squib round lodges in the barrel and a second round is fired without clearing the obstruction, an over pressure condition will result - KB. If the bullet is physically retarded from moving out of the case, an over pressure condition will result - KB. The over pressure condition may result in some damage to the gun, barrel or casing - KB. If the casing is not fully seated into the chamber before detonation, the casing will not likely contain the pressure and will rupture - KB. The rupture may also cause secondary damage or detonation - KB. An explosion with negative consequences will likely occur from the above circumstances. The extent and area of damage will depend on many factors including the design of the gun.

In short, over pressure and/or malfunction can blow up ANY gun, so proceed with caution and common sense.
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Old 06-14-2005, 11:32   #180
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
There are more 1911s out there than Glock 21s. Not too many reports of 1911 chambers going south..

;b
Do you have actual numbers of glock and 1911 chambers that have failed? If not any conjecture is meaningless.
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Old 06-14-2005, 14:09   #181
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
Do you have actual numbers of glock and 1911 chambers that have failed? If not any conjecture is meaningless.
Here's a snippet for you..
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Old 06-14-2005, 14:55   #182
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
Here's a snippet for you..
As I thought, good luck on you quest my friend, live long and prosper.
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Old 06-14-2005, 15:33   #183
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
As I thought, good luck on you quest my friend, live long and prosper.
May the force be with you ;b
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Old 06-14-2005, 15:58   #184
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Has anyone run side by side tests (same cal. - same loads - same brass) with a Glock, 1911, Sig, H&K, Beretta or others at max levels or above and compared the casings for expansion, over expansion, buldges, cracks or ruptures?
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Old 06-14-2005, 16:18   #185
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmacelree
Has anyone run side by side tests (same cal. - same loads - same brass) with a Glock, 1911, Sig, H&K, Beretta or others at max levels or above and compared the casings for expansion, over expansion, buldges, cracks or ruptures?
This would be a plugged bore test. As far as I know, only Ruger and H&K tested their guns with a plugged bore. The Dept. of Homeland Security had a plugged bore test, which the Sig passed.
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Old 06-14-2005, 19:19   #186
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Some how in this discussion there is an attempt to make the "standard of comparison" HK and XD pistols.

But, rather should it not be the SAMMI spec for the ammo used?

Other brands of pistol may indeed be stronger than Glock.


And, other brands may indeed be less prone to 6 oclock failures due to tighter chambers.

But the standard is the SAMMI ammo standard.

When brass fails it:
Is either weaker than the SAMMI standard or
The pressure is higher.

If the Glock chamber fails, then it would require post failure analysis of the barrel and case to see what the pressures were.


If you shoot non-standard ammo, then guns with higher proof ratings may be a good choice for you.

Otherwise, if you shoot loads that meet SAMMI specs then what difference does it make?



Regarding, Glocks firing with un-closed chambers - please try for yourself the test I ran by shortening a 10mm case.

Until the case is short enough to allow the Glock to close, you can't close it.
However, ONCE it does close, it can close completely.
Try it.
Report back.

Phil
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Old 06-14-2005, 19:21   #187
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
Here's a snippet for you..
AHA! With a "reliable source" like Dean Speir, you certainly have the "facts" to support your position! ;Q
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Old 06-14-2005, 20:14   #188
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Quote:
Originally posted by gary newport
AHA! With a "reliable source" like Dean Speir, you certainly have the "facts" to support your position! ;Q
Yep. Sure Dean is Crusty and all, but as far as I can tell, he's not making this stuff up.
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Old 06-14-2005, 20:49   #189
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I did a search of Google Groups starting Jan 1, 1985 and ending Dec. 31, 1990 and found only 59 hits for the word "Glock".
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups...2&as_maxy=1990
Some were not even about Glock handguns.


I then narrowed the search for the year 1991 only and found over 400 hits.
http://groups-beta.google.com/groups...2&as_maxy=1991



More people were starting to get online and I started finding some interesting threads about glocks.
This was my own attempt at getting to the bottom of all the Kaboom stories.
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Old 06-14-2005, 22:24   #190
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Why chambers should not explode
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Old 06-15-2005, 12:17   #191
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Quail Fat, with most of your knowledge of Glocks coming from Dean Speir, I guess pretty soon we could say "Yer perty neer genious!"

Walter must be losing his mind wanting to answer this thread...;g


Eddie
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Old 06-15-2005, 13:36   #192
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
This would be a plugged bore test. As far as I know, only Ruger and H&K tested their guns with a plugged bore. The Dept. of Homeland Security had a plugged bore test, which the Sig passed.
I want to take the plugged bores, bad bullets, bad seating, firing out of battery, and etc. out of the variables and deal only with high pressure or over pressure loads as they affect the casing and any resulting damage to the gun.

So much has been said about "unsupported brass chamber design" that I was hoping to find a test limited to that issue. Does it make a difference and if so, what is that point and what is the difference?

We can all conjecture, I am looking for hard test data on one aspect of design.
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Old 06-15-2005, 22:06   #193
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Has anyone any NEW news from Portland PD.

I note that the snippet linked above is about a year old.


It would seem that they would have been able to complete any needed lab tests by now.

Anyone?

Is anyone a Portland resident?

thanks
Phil
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Old 06-15-2005, 22:17   #194
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eddie C.
Quail Fat, with most of your knowledge of Glocks coming from Dean Speir, I guess pretty soon we could say "Yer perty neer genious!"

Walter must be losing his mind wanting to answer this thread...;g


Eddie

Although I don't agree with some of his opinions - I am curious about this disparagement of Dean Speir.

I once challenged Walter to provide evidence of his oft stated accusations that Dean was an inveterate prevaricator.

I received what I considered to be a "null" response.

Did you ever see anything that materially disproved any facts that Mr. Speir has stated?
Could you give an example?

Thanks
Phil
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Old 06-16-2005, 08:43   #195
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Quote:
Originally posted by philkryder
Although I don't agree with some of his opinions - I am curious about this disparagement of Dean Speir.

I once challenged Walter to provide evidence of his oft stated accusations that Dean was an inveterate prevaricator.

I received what I considered to be a "null" response.

Did you ever see anything that materially disproved any facts that Mr. Speir has stated?
Could you give an example?

Thanks
Phil

I was sent this by a friend of ours:

Eddie,

Philkryder unknowingly answered his own question about Speir's veracity and honesty. Wonder why the info on the Portland PD hasn't been updated in a year?? Fact is, Portland PD doesn't want to admit what White Laboratories told them, which is that they had an ammo, not a Glock problem.

W.
--------------------------------------------


Hope that helps.

Eddie;f
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Old 06-16-2005, 08:53   #196
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Is the White Lab report public? If it was sent to a police department would that be available through a freedom of information request?

What was the problem with their ammo?
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Old 06-16-2005, 10:53   #197
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eddie C.
I was sent this by a friend of ours:

Eddie,

Philkryder unknowingly answered his own question about Speir's veracity and honesty. Wonder why the info on the Portland PD hasn't been updated in a year?? Fact is, Portland PD doesn't want to admit what White Laboratories told them, which is that they had an ammo, not a Glock problem.

W.
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Hope that helps.

Eddie;f
I wondered if our friend was going to get in on his sticky somehow;f Kind of like someone who has passed from the scene and keeps an eye on us from out there.;f
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Old 06-16-2005, 16:17   #198
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
I wondered if our friend was going to get in on his sticky somehow;f Kind of like someone who has passed from the scene and keeps an eye on us from out there.;f




^6 ^c
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Old 06-16-2005, 19:18   #199
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Quote:
Originally posted by Eddie C.
I was sent this by a friend of ours:

Eddie,

Philkryder unknowingly answered his own question about Speir's veracity and honesty. Wonder why the info on the Portland PD hasn't been updated in a year?? Fact is, Portland PD doesn't want to admit what White Laboratories told them, which is that they had an ammo, not a Glock problem.

W.
--------------------------------------------


Hope that helps.

Eddie;f
Actually it doesn't help much.

I think "our friend" is putting the worst possible construction and interpretation on the Portland events as they relate to Speir.

This is the type of response that Walter would often provide - seemingly erudite - but orthogonal to the issue at hand.

The fact that Portland PD hasn't come forth with any new news (even an interim status report of what they are doing) is a reflection on the Portland PD - but hardly on Speir -

Or am I missing something?

A simple link to a page in error with a quote would have been a direct and straight-forward response.

I've never gotten such a simple response.

Phil
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Old 06-16-2005, 19:33   #200
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Quote:
Originally posted by philkryder
Well - I think "our friend" is putting the worst possible construction and interpretation on events.

The fact that Portland PD hasn't come forth with any new news (even an interim status report of what they are doing) is a reflection on them - but hardly on Speir -

Or am I missing something?

A simple link to a page in error is all I'm asking for.
Phil
Phil, do you actually think deano is fair and balanced in his treatment of glocks?
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