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Old 06-04-2005, 20:59   #151
Quail Fat
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Here is a Glock chamber for comparison with the above post.
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Old 06-10-2005, 14:08   #152
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I think it's sad that this has to be sticky. There are no conclusions in this entire guide that an individual of reasonable intelligence, and minimal education shouldn't be able to reach on their own. Yet some won't accept facts that contadict their beliefs-- unless they are presented in a manner which requires sufficient hoop-jumping in the form of occasional usage of terms that they learned in school. This seems to be how they(individuals of reasonable intelligence who think themselves superior to genius) determine that you are on par with their grossly exaggerated minimum level of reasoning set to determine whether or not a view is fact or fallacy, regardless of the tangibility of their own original belief *cough Dean Speir cough*.
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Old 06-10-2005, 14:27   #153
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I shouldn't say too much about Speir, as if it weren't for his kb! page's liberal use of anecdotal 'evidence', and general Glock bashing(consisting primarily of lies- not even bent truthes just made up on the spot information almost as if the 'Brady Campaign' manages his site and 'research') with frequent references to GlockTalk Forums, I would have never found this place. Kudos to Speir for introducing me to you guys!
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Old 06-10-2005, 15:15   #154
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I have Several Glock pistols and love them.
I carry a Glock 23 Daily and would bet my life on one.
With that said, I do think a Glock is more likely to KB than other pistols.
Just look at the other forums.
Do they have a KB sticky?
Almost everyone I know (People who do alot of shooting that is)have had or witnessed or know someone who has had a KB with a Glock at one time or another.
If you use good ammo, It is HIGHLY UNLIKELY you will ever have a problem with a glock.
If you shoot reloads, LEAD or FMJ, you run a Greater chance of a KB with a glock than with a sig, beretta ,hk or 1911.
I know some who reload all the time for Glocks without problems.
But you better be careful with Brass selection etc. (AMERC) for one.

If I carry one, I must not be too worried about a KB!
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Old 06-13-2005, 11:37   #155
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Appologies in advance ... What does KB stand for?
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Old 06-13-2005, 13:24   #156
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Originally posted by BeBop
Appologies in advance ... What does KB stand for?
KA-BOOM
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Old 06-13-2005, 14:31   #157
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat

Bullet setback, lead in the barrel or a double charge of powder, when combined with a thin chamber is a receipe for disaster.
Lead in a barrel may or may not cause a problem in some handguns, bullet setback sure can raise pressures and double charges of certain powders will almost always cause problems. Have never personally seen a blown Glock, heck I just bought my 1st one, a Glock rebuilt G-23, but I have seen some Single Action and double Action revolvers blow from what I assume were double charges. Did see one S&W M-36 with a blown cyl. due to what looked like a blockage in the bbl. With as many Glocks out there as ther are I am not surprised that some have failed, the question becomes is it a flaw with the gun or what was being fired in it. Saying it hase not happened to an XD or HK is just foolish, at best.
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Old 06-13-2005, 16:40   #158
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrapdoorBilly
Saying it hasent happened to an XD or HK is just foolish, at best.
You won't find an XD or an H&K chamber that has ruptured, however there are a lot of Glock chambers that have burst.

Again, you won't find a picture, nor has anybody reported a ruptured XD and/or H&K chamber.

Glock chambers are thin, loose and sloppy. Look at the picture, the XD and H&K has the best support and has a thick chamber wall.
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Old 06-13-2005, 16:48   #159
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
You won't find an XD or an H&K chamber that has ruptured, however there are a lot of Glock chambers that have burst.

Again, you won't find a picture, nor has anybody reported a ruptured XD and/or H&K chamber.

Glock chambers are thin, loose and sloppy. Look at the picture, the XD and H&K has the best support and has a thick chamber wall.
You won't? An XD or H&K can't be blown up by a serious overpressure event? As Walter would probably say, "horsehockey!" Do you know any more funny stories?

Thick or thin, put too much pressure in that chamber and it WILL blow!
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Old 06-13-2005, 17:35   #160
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
You won't find an XD or an H&K chamber that has ruptured, however there are a lot of Glock chambers that have burst.

Again, you won't find a picture, nor has anybody reported a ruptured XD and/or H&K chamber.

Glock chambers are thin, loose and sloppy. Look at the picture, the XD and H&K has the best support and has a thick chamber wall.
Send me one of each and I'll blow it six ways from sunday, I have personally seen a head separation in an hk that trashed the frame, the same would happen in an xd, and as far as burst chambers are concerned the stronger the containment the stronger the bomb.
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Old 06-13-2005, 18:48   #161
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
Here is a Glock chamber for comparison with the above post.
I checked all my three pistols, Glock 17, 27 and a Kimber .45 5" , I removed the barrels and inserted a new cartridge in all three. They ALL looked like the photo you posted. The cartridge wasnt fully supported all the way to the back in the 6 o clock position.

All three catridges exposed just about the same ammount of brass in that area.

I think its inherent of the browing type pistol design.
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Old 06-13-2005, 19:10   #162
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
Send me one of each and I'll blow it six ways from sunday, I have personally seen a head separation in an hk that trashed the frame, the same would happen in an xd, and as far as burst chambers are concerned the stronger the containment the stronger the bomb.
Duh.. Of course the reciever will blow. I never said it wouldn't. It's the chamber on the Glock that blows. With the H&K and XD, bullet setback or a double charge of powder will only trash the reciever. There isn't enough powder to blow the chamber, the only thing that blows is the case.

The Glock chamber is loose. As the brass expands, it slaps into the wall of the chamber. If you slap it hard enough the chamber will burst. With a snug XD or H&K chamber, there isn't enough room for the brass to slap it, like it does with the Glock.

You won't see the chamber blow on the H&K and the XD. It will never happen...
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Old 06-13-2005, 19:25   #163
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
Duh.. Of course the reciever will blow. I never said it wouldn't. It's the chamber on the Glock that blows. With the H&K and XD, bullet setback or a double charge of powder will only trash the reciever. There isn't enough powder to blow the chamber, the only thing that blows is the case.

The Glock chamber is loose. As the brass expands, it slaps into the wall of the chamber. If you slap it hard enough the chamber will burst. With a snug XD or H&K chamber, there isn't enough room for the brass to slap it, like it does with the Glock.

You won't see the chamber blow on the H&K and the XD. It will never happen...
Not true, many kbs you read of are caused by case head separations, and your theory on why kbs happen is patently ridiculous, I dont know where to start it is so wrong, you actually think the case wall slapping the chamber causes ruptures?
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Old 06-13-2005, 20:35   #164
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
Not true, many kbs you read of are caused by case head separations, and your theory on why kbs happen is patently ridiculous, I dont know where to start it is so wrong, you actually think the case wall slapping the chamber causes ruptures?
Why would a case head separation cause a Glock chamber to burst?

Nobody elses chambers burst from a case head separtaion...

The case wall slapping the chamber causes metallurgical stress of the chamber. The thinnest area of the chamber is at the 4 and 8 o'clock position. This area doesn't have the neccessary strength to contain a case head separation, this is where Glock chambers will usually start to separate.

In most pistols, the gasses will vent out of the weakest part of the case. With the Glock, this will be the thinnest area of the case, were it is unsupported. This is also the location of the 4 and 8 o'clock position.

What else causes Glock chambers to blow apart?

Again, why do Glock chambers explode and H&K and XD chambers stay together?

Why are the only chambers that blow apart, Glock chambers?

I've never heard of a Sig chamber blowing apart. Nor have I heard of a Ruger, H&K, XD, or a Steyr chamber exploding.
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Old 06-13-2005, 20:45   #165
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
Why would a case head separation cause a Glock chamber to burst?

Nobody elses chambers burst from a case head separtaion...

The case wall slapping the chamber causes metallurgical stress of the chamber. The thinnest area of the chamber is at the 4 and 8 o'clock position. This area doesn't have the neccessary strength to contain a case head separation, this is where Glock chambers will usually start to separate.

In most pistols, the gasses will vent out of the weakest part of the case. With the Glock, this will be the thinnest area of the case, were it is unsupported. This is also the location of the 4 and 8 o'clock position.

What else causes Glock chambers to blow apart?

Again, why do Glock chambers explode and H&K and XD chambers stay together?

Why are the only chambers that blow apart, Glock chambers?

I've never heard of a Sig chamber blowing apart. Nor have I heard of a Ruger, H&K, XD, or a Steyr chamber exploding.
As Walter pointed out when he started this thread, a case failure is NOT a kB! A 9mm fired in a Glock .40 has a catastrophic case failure, yet nothing at all happens to the gun, even though the chamber gets "slapped" with the radically-expanded 9mm case. A simple case failure might blow the magazine out and do a few minor things to some frame parts, but it will NOT rupture the chamber by "slapping" it!

More to the point: if you think that Glocks are the ONLY handguns to experience kBs, you need to get out more. Come to the range I frequent and you'll see two big Smith N-frames and a bull-strong Ruger hanging on the wall with topstraps bowed and broken. An overpressure event can be catastrophic for any gun.
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Old 06-13-2005, 21:22   #166
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Thanks, Trap! Lots to learn. It sounds like KB's are due to ammo, as opposed to the firearm. Of course, I also can't seem to get the smilies to show up on my Mac. Darn Junior members!!!
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Old 06-13-2005, 22:50   #167
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Quote:
Originally posted by gary newport
As Walter pointed out when he started this thread, a case failure is NOT a kB!
Obviously case failure is not a kB. I never said it was. A kB is the chamber exloding and blowing shrapnel all over Kingdon Come, which seemingly, Glock has cornered the market with regards to pistols.

Quote:
Originally posted by gary newport
A 9mm fired in a Glock .40 has a catastrophic case failure, yet nothing at all happens to the gun, even though the chamber gets "slapped" with the radically-expanded 9mm case. A simple case failure might blow the magazine out and do a few minor things to some frame parts, but it will NOT rupture the chamber by "slapping" it!
The 9mm fired in a 40 won't cause a kB because the 9mm brass won't slap the 40 chamber. Probably because eithr the bullet will exit the case and vent the gases around the bullet out the front of the barrel, or the 9mm brass will tear before it has the chance to expand to 40 caliber. The slow moving bullet will simply funnel it's way out of the end of the barrel at whatever velocity it left the case.


I never said GLocks are the ONLY handguns to experience kBs. I said GLocks are the only PISTOLS. A big Smith N-frame is a REVOLVER. Yes revolvers will explode. We are discussing polymer framed pistols..


Here are some questions for you:

If the expanding brass slapping the Glock chamber wall doesn't cause the chamber to rupture, then what does? It does happen does it not? This question, for some reason never gets an answer. (Hint: Think loose, thin, brittle and unsupported)

Why do XDs, SigSaurs and H&K chambers stay together? I've never heard of one, nor have I seen a picture of a grenaded chamber from one of these three gun manufacturers. However, there are plenty of photographs, range stories and WWW reports of Glock chambers that have been trashed.

A tight unsupported chamber, like a Beretta 40 doesn't explode.. Yet some Glock 40/45 chambers do explode. It is VERY VERY rare, but it is nonetheless a fact.

Glock chambers sometimes burst, yet other manufacturers chambers do not. (referring to XD, Sigs and H&K)

Sigs, XD and H&K chambers are not only tighter, but also support the brass and are thicker. That is a fact. Glock chambers are loose, thin and offer less chamber support,this is also a fact.

Quote:
Originally posted by gary newport
More to the point: if you think that Glocks are the ONLY handguns to experience kBs, you need to get out more. Come to the range I frequent and you'll see two big Smith N-frames and a bull-strong Ruger hanging on the wall with topstraps bowed and broken. An overpressure event can be catastrophic for any gun.
An overpressure will cause an XD, SigPro and an H&K USP/P-2000 to blow up the polymer frame, but for Lords sake, the freakin' chambers don't fly apart like the do on a Glock.

There are very few reports of a Glock chamber staying together while the frame comes apart. Glock chambers are simply inferior. Why is this such a hard pill to swallow? I own a Glock 21, I shoot it all the time. It has never malfuctioned and realistically it more than likely won't have a kB.

With my XD, there isn't a remote possibilty of my chamber coming apart. It's impossible. The XD chamber is overengineered.

It should be obvious that Glock simply didn't do any plugged bore tests with their guns prior to releasing them. Heckler and Koch and SigSaur, along with Rugers and designed to not blow apart their chambers with a plugged bore.
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Old 06-14-2005, 06:18   #168
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat


Here are some questions for you:

If the expanding brass slapping the Glock chamber wall doesn't cause the chamber to rupture, then what does? It does happen does it not? This question, for some reason never gets an answer. (Hint: Think loose, thin, brittle chamber
No, the case "slapping" the chamber wall does not cause the chamber to explode, where did you get this "slapping" theory? Is it your own? Or do you have a some data to cite? The reason chambers explode, and it can happen on any firearm from the largest bore rifle to the smallest pistol, is there is an over pressure event, wether it be from to much powder or an obstructed bore, if you were to put a bullet in a paper cartridge and double charge it with fast burning powder and fire it, it would cause a ruptured chamber just the same as you would have with a brass case, would that be because the paper "slapped" the chamber hard enough? The simple answer to your question is the brass case "slapping" the chamber has nothing to do with rupturing the chamber, it is a simple matter of overpressure, the case actually helps contain the explosion it adds to the overall strength of the chamber, take fast burning powder and pack it in a pipe with a fuse, set it off, what happens?
There was no brass case to "slap" the inside of the pipe, why did it explode? There was to much pressure for the pipe to contain so it ruptured thats why.
If glock started making rubber cases would chamber ruptures be a thing of the past? There would be no case "slap" right? or better yet a caseless cartridge it would be impossible for one to blow up because there is no case to "slap" the chamber right?
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Old 06-14-2005, 06:56   #169
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^ The more of QF I read the more convinced I am that his only problem, if you can call it that, is he does not like Glocks.
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:15   #170
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
No, the case "slapping" the chamber wall does not cause the chamber to explode, where did you get this "slapping" theory? Is it your own? Or do you have a some data to cite? The reason chambers explode, and it can happen on any firearm from the largest bore rifle to the smallest pistol, is there is an over pressure event, wether it be from to much powder or an obstructed bore, if you were to put a bullet in a paper cartridge and double charge it with fast burning powder and fire it, it would cause a ruptured chamber just the same as you would have with a brass case, would that be because the paper "slapped" the chamber hard enough? The simple answer to your question is the brass case "slapping" the chamber has nothing to do with rupturing the chamber, it is a simple matter of overpressure, the case actually helps contain the explosion it adds to the overall strength of the chamber, take fast burning powder and pack it in a pipe with a fuse, set it off, what happens?
There was no brass case to "slap" the inside of the pipe, why did it explode? There was to much pressure for the pipe to contain so it ruptured thats why.
If glock started making rubber cases would chamber ruptures be a thing of the past? There would be no case "slap" right? or better yet a caseless cartridge it would be impossible for one to blow up because there is no case to "slap" the chamber right?
Maybe slapping is a poor choice of words. If loose chambers are such a great idea, how come only Glock uses them?

Jeez.. why can't somebody tell me why Glock chambers explode and why H&Ks, Sigs and XD don't?

Once again, my question is avoided.
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:24   #171
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Quote:
Originally posted by TrapdoorBilly
^ The more of QF I read the more convinced I am that his only problem, if you can call it that, is he does not like Glocks.
I don't hate Glocks. Did you even read my post? I've owned over 20 of them and I shoot Glocks very well.

Will somebody please answer this simple question.

1. During case head separation, Why do some Glock chambers explode, while H&K/Sig/XD chambers do not explode?
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:34   #172
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
I don't hate Glocks. Did you even read my post? I've owned over 20 of them and I shoot Glocks very well.

Will somebody please answer this simple question.

1. During case head separation, Why do some Glock chambers explode, while H&K/Sig/XD chambers do not explode?
Did you read my post or do you just choose to ignore it, can you state categorically that there has never been a rupture of a hk or xd chamber?
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Old 06-14-2005, 07:37   #173
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In order for your question to be relevant you have to be able to prove there has never been a rupture of an hk or xd chamber.
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Old 06-14-2005, 09:03   #174
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Quote:
Originally posted by fabricator
In order for your question to be relevant you have to be able to prove there has never been a rupture of an hk or xd chamber.
There hasn't been. You can't prove otherwise.

So I have to prove there has never been a rupture of an XD/H&K/SigSauer chamber for my question to be relevant?

I have searched all over the web and have never read of any reports, nor have I ever heard of any reports, nor have I ever seen a photograph or witnessed an H&K/XD/SigSaur chamber explode. I can't offer any more proof than that.

Why can't the Glock 40/45 chamber contain a case-head separation??
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Old 06-14-2005, 09:22   #175
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Quote:
Originally posted by Quail Fat
There hasn't been. You can't prove otherwise.

So I have to prove there has never been a rupture of an XD/H&K/SigSauer chamber for my question to be relevant?

I have searched all over the web and have never read of any reports, nor have I ever heard of any reports, nor have I ever seen a photograph or witnessed an H&K/XD/SigSaur chamber explode. I can't offer any more proof than that.

Why can't the Glock 40/45 chamber contain a case-head separation??
There is a very simple answer to that one, the chamber will not rupture upon case head separation, the case fails at the six oclock position and high pressure gases are blown out thru the magwell, causing the mag to be blown out and often cracking the frame as has happened here And would happen on an xd also, can you prove that a case head separation has ever caused a glock chamber to rupture?
I have personally had case head separations with glock, colt, kimber, in all these events the chamber did not rupture, and the only damage to the guns was trashed mags and in the glock a broken mag relaese, these were all case head separations and nothing happened the chamber here is the one that I had in my 21 note the intact chamber.
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