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Old 11-08-2005, 09:54   #241
Babysinister
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Re: Monday, 11-7-05 KB!

Quote:
Originally posted by Albert Shear
Ammo-after re-composing myself I checked each box of the Federal 155gr HydraShok in the case, round by round. Including the unfinished box I was shooting at the time of the incident. All of the other headstamps read Federal but this one box read FC. Clearly the older rounds. The seller had found a way to get rid of them, hide them in case lots. Lesson learned!
I have a few boxes of Federal Hydra Shok in 9mmP for my G19, including my carry rounds. I wasn't aware there was a problem with the older rounds. Mine are practically all FCs. Were these FC's recalled?? Would love to know!
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Old 11-08-2005, 13:25   #242
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Re: Monday, 11-7-05 KB!

Quote:
Originally posted by Albert Shear
Ammo-after re-composing myself I checked each box of the Federal 155gr HydraShok in the case, round by round. Including the unfinished box I was shooting at the time of the incident. All of the other headstamps read Federal but this one box read FC. Clearly the older rounds. The seller had found a way to get rid of them, hide them in case lots. Lesson learned! [/B]
Ouch! Glad you're still in one piece, even if your gun isn't -- you can buy a new Glock, you can't buy new fingers.

I'm always dubious about gun show ammo to begin with. Sometimes it looks like old stock, sometimes new, but I always wonder how the guys at these tables can get ammo and sell it lower than some of the usual online places that seem to be low-price leaders.

I've bought some remanufactured .45ACP, but the guy selling it was locally based (he had flyers and contact info), and I'm a little less worried about .45 than other ammo.
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Old 11-08-2005, 21:23   #243
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hello Albert, I understand your pain! A good day shooting should not end that way! You should read the preceding posts about the kb's of the .40 caliber glocks? Lots of good discussion there. I am not an expert gunsmith/engineer by no stretch of the imagination, but from my experience reloading pistol and rifle ammo, I have a hard time believing that the 6'oclock bulge in the brass shot from a glock should be acceptable. It is just plain and simply, poor barrel engineering for such a high pressure catridge like the 40. My factory barrel bulged the brass "every" time with mildly loaded Winchester white box ammo. I have a Storm Lake barrel for my glock 23, and I shoot 180-200 grain, loaded for bear stuff with no sign of case bulge at the 6 o'clock position. One can learn a lot from the empty brass their pistol or rifle ejects.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:49   #244
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Glad that you are OK.

I wonder if some of the ammo was reloaded, not just old. You might want to notify Federal and Glock and preserve the evidence for their professional inspection. They might be able to check this out by an examination of the cases and disassembly of the rounds.
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Old 11-09-2005, 08:53   #245
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Quote:
Originally posted by jbremount
hello Albert, I understand your pain! A good day shooting should not end that way! You should read the preceding posts about the kb's of the .40 caliber glocks? Lots of good discussion there. I am not an expert gunsmith/engineer by no stretch of the imagination, but from my experience reloading pistol and rifle ammo, I have a hard time believing that the 6'oclock bulge in the brass shot from a glock should be acceptable. It is just plain and simply, poor barrel engineering for such a high pressure catridge like the 40. My factory barrel bulged the brass "every" time with mildly loaded Winchester white box ammo. I have a Storm Lake barrel for my glock 23, and I shoot 180-200 grain, loaded for bear stuff with no sign of case bulge at the 6 o'clock position. One can learn a lot from the empty brass their pistol or rifle ejects.
I can only guess that the Glock engineers tested various barrel configurations and determined the amount of case head support for reliable function with new ammo that also gave them the biggest opening to feed new rounds to prevent jamming.

One gets the impression, though, that the tolerance associated with case head support favors the big opening/reliable feeding aspect vs. more case head support.

I have a KKM Precision for my G29, and given the number of aftermarker barrel vendors and the relative popularity of them among Glock owners, I'm surprised Glock hasn't offered "full support" barrels either as a model variation (G29S) or as an accessory. Maybe this would be tantamount to admitting that their barrels lack support and increase their liability -- I don't know.
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Old 11-09-2005, 10:23   #246
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The after market barrel and design issues have been discussed at very great length. Even after market barrels will KB if the load is too hot or defective. That is why it is important to first determine if the ammo was within specs.

If the ammo was within spec., then the agrument for design change and after market barrels is stronger.

The other lesson to be learned here is about not using any ammo with a suspect history.

Cheap ammo can be very costly - way beyond the value of the gun. What are your fingers, hand, arm or eyes worth?
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Old 11-09-2005, 10:29   #247
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Quote:
Originally posted by jmacelree
The after market barrel and design issues have been discussed at very great length. Even after market barrels will KB if the load is too hot or defective. That is why it is important to first determine if the ammo was within specs.

If the ammo was within spec., then the agrument for design change and after market barrels is stronger.

The other lesson to be learned here is about not using any ammo with a suspect history.

Cheap ammo can be very costly - way beyond the value of the gun. What are your fingers, hand, arm or eyes worth?
I don't disagree about "cheap" ammo, but I think the important and unanswered question is about how much tolerance the stock barrels are offering should ammo vary from spec.

There's all kinds of things besides reloading or double-charging that could cause a case to fail, and pushing the case support to the outer limits of case strength tolerances just seems risky.
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Old 11-09-2005, 10:50   #248
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Thanks all.
The Federal ammo all appeared to be new boxes,unbroken end flaps and new, unfired rounds that did not look to be reloaded. Comparing to a new box of HydraShok I just purchased they are identical.

Babysinister-FC stamped had a weakness in the web area of the case construction-a defect. Federal strengthened the case and to differentiate the the newer cases from the older they began stamping the Federal instead of FC.

As soon as I get more into the gun and install a new extractor and remove the case remnant from the chamber, my 'smith and I will go over completely. Right now it appears no other damage exists.
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Old 11-10-2005, 06:33   #249
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pics

I took a few pics yesterday.
Valuable Info

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And split in mag.
Valuable Info
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Old 11-10-2005, 08:36   #250
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That you need to send to Glock and Federal
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Old 11-10-2005, 11:46   #251
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Quote:
Originally posted by Albert Shear


Babysinister-FC stamped had a weakness in the web area of the case construction-a defect. Federal strengthened the case and to differentiate the the newer cases from the older they began stamping the Federal instead of FC.
Thank you for the info. I do have a whole bunch of 9mm Federal stamped FC, that's why I asked. I bought my first Glock, a G19, just a month ago. I haven't been able to fire it yet, what with Wilma and post-hurricane repairs and all. I had it in my range bag all ready to go for this weekend. I guess now I'll unload the FC 9mm and replace the batch with some Georgia Arms factory ammo that I bought when I got the gun. Whew! Seems that the time lag between buying the gun and taking it to the range for the first time is a blessing in disguise. What do you do when you have a bunch of FC stamped ammo, return it to Federal? Or just flush them down the toilet?
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Old 11-11-2005, 15:20   #252
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I was thinking about doing a test on glocks and federal FC stamped ammo and other ammo. Just to find out which glock models are most prone to blowing up due to a defective load.

I just need all the glock owners here to send me their guns so I can test. I'll cover shipping and I'm not responsible if your glock is returned to you in more than one piece.
;f ;z
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Old 11-11-2005, 17:10   #253
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New Federal v old FC?

Isn't it the other way 'round?

I have a bunch of new production Federal 9mm ammo (American Eagle and HST) and it's marked FC, not Federal.

I know there was some problems w Federal 40 S&W ammo a few yrs ago, and the 40 cases were tweaked... 155 HS and 180 FMJ to be specific. Blew cases in guns other than Glocks too BTW.

The new HST ammo I have was made long after those problems were discoverd and fixed, and they are marked FC. ;b
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Old 11-20-2005, 14:09   #254
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if my brand new glock 26 can eat up wolf ammo like nuthing,than i agree it most likely won't go boom in my hands...
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Old 11-21-2005, 11:27   #255
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Quote:
Originally posted by CCCPsoldier
if my brand new glock 26 can eat up wolf ammo like nuthing,than i agree it most likely won't go boom in my hands...
I think Wolf is made with steel cases. They may be stronger than brass cases, which would reduce the problem.
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Old 11-21-2005, 13:10   #256
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yah they are steel cased.also in some wolf ammo they use a little steel in the bullets to make things cheaper.not really hard steel or anything.recently wolf ammo makes quality hunting ammo in brass cases in bunch of dif calibers.would take a lot more pressure to rupture a steel case!
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Old 12-10-2005, 01:11   #257
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A brief primer on KB's

First off what does KB stand for?
Is this mostly an issue with Glock
40 SW and if so should I only
use factory ammo if I buy a Glock?
Am I better off to buy a SIG 40 SW
if I want to use reloads because quite
frankly this freaks me out a little.
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Old 12-10-2005, 06:28   #258
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Re: A brief primer on KB's

Quote:
Originally posted by DRH
First off what does KB stand for?
Is this mostly an issue with Glock
40 SW and if so should I only
use factory ammo if I buy a Glock?
Am I better off to buy a SIG 40 SW
if I want to use reloads because quite
frankly this freaks me out a little.
Is that supposed to be a poem? If so it doesnt rhyme very good.
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Old 12-10-2005, 09:57   #259
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Re: Re: A brief primer on KB's

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Originally posted by fabricator
Is that supposed to be a poem? If so it doesnt rhyme very good.
You'd prefer Haiku format?

Glock a loose chamber
Feeds fresh rounds very easy
Will sometimes kaboom

Third party barrel
With better chamber support
Fires reloads with ease
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Old 12-10-2005, 12:12   #260
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Re: Re: Re: A brief primer on KB's

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Originally posted by mobocracy
You'd prefer Haiku format?

Glock a loose chamber
Feeds fresh rounds very easy
Will sometimes kaboom

Third party barrel
With better chamber support
Fires reloads with ease
Better still, how about a Nostradamus prophetic quatrain?

In the New City in the year five
careless owner place cylinder with bad stuffing
inside tube that shoots; its end is weak,
therefore kaboom will happen with great sound.
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