Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-09-2006, 13:09   #161
Hugh Neal
Member
 
Hugh Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Erith, Kent just SE of London, UK.
Posts: 56
Thanks 1911Copper - I thought that the thread had died!

I cannot help you with the link, but UKProGun might be able to.

Incidentally, since I posted the article about the woman cop shot by a bad guy, she has made a pretty much full recovery and the police made an arrest (it has not gone to court yet).

Everyone in the UK seems to be pretty much preoccupied with the 53 Million (about $75 million) cash robbery that took place a couple of weeks ago in Tonbridge, Kent (not very far from where I live, actually). Some of the cash has been recovered in Welling, Kent (literally up the road from my place). Lots of jokes about looking for hidden cash in the garden potting shed and the like, but there really is around 30 million still unrecovered and I guess the stash must be local to me.....
Hugh Neal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2006, 16:45   #162
UK Pro Gun
Dimension one
 
UK Pro Gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Area 81.x.x.x
Posts: 110
Hi all,

1911Copper
Is this the link you were looking for:

http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/publications.php

Click on, "Alvazzi del Frate, Anna, Van Kesteren, J.N., (2004) 'Criminal Victimisation in Urban Europe. Key findings of the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey'. Turin, UNICRI. Full text in PDF"

If you think that the worse thing that can happen here in GB, (Gone Barmy Britain) is that you can't use a gun for active self defense then look at this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4788930.stm

Last Updated: Thursday, 9 March 2006, 11:14 GMT
E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Schoolboy wears stab-proof vest
A schoolboy wore a stab-proof vest beneath his uniform after being threatened.

The boy, 16, is believed to have worn it on his journey to and from the Lammas School in Leyton, east London.

A police officer was made aware of a pupil wearing "what was believed to be a stab-proof vest", said a spokesman for Scotland Yard.

He added that in consultation with the school "the officer told the pupil to remove the vest".

Police became aware of the vest through the local Safer Schools officer - part of a programme running in 34 local education authorities, with high levels of truancy and crime.

They have become increasingly concerned about the number of people arming themselves with knives - nearly 80 people were killed in knife attacks in London last year.

They have also been running several campaigns in an attempt to alert youngsters to the dangers of carrying knives.


So now passive defense is also illegal, what next, if mugged and you actually run away you'll be fined!


New topic:
Any jobs for a wirefree fire alarm techhie in NC? Help a poor 'subject' get to become a real citizen;g

__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


____MBR #8
UK Pro Gun is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2006, 22:59   #163
1911copper
Aequitas
 
1911copper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oklahoma City Ok
Posts: 1,274
Thanks, UK.
__________________
"For he beareth the sword not in vain"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
1911copper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2006, 09:52   #164
Laserlips
"Laus Deo"
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,237
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
At last, someone who talks with some sense.
To be honest I'm totally bored with most on here b itching about our way of life in the UK, when in fact, most have absolutely no idea about life here. You don't like it? Fine, don't come here, you wont be missed.
TommyT:

There is one fact about the UK that overrides all others FOR ME.

I feel that the US has ONLY two allies who will both defend themselves, and support the US in our defense, and the UK is one of them.

That single fact is more important to me than whether or not I understand why the British subjects have allowed themselves to basically become disarmed.

So, while the continuing disarmament of the British is a puzzle to me, it's basically none of my business.

I think if we could exchange places for a year or so both of our attitudes about firearms and many other subjects would be forever altered.. It's all about the "walk a mile in my shoes" deal.

Basically as it stands, I think the average British subject feels no need of personal firearms ownership, so it's no big deal. On the other hand, a great number of Americans believe even if we have no personal need for firearms, we are free citizens, and should have the option to have them if we so chose. I think it's also a different mindset between a "subject" and a "citizen". Apparently that has been true for a long time, therein the 2nd Amendment.

Or, we are legally entitled to own firearms by our Constitution, so we resent anybody fooling with that 2nd Amendment freedom. We take the legal ownership of firearms as a given, and it's surprising to us why people in other countries don't have the same rights.. (Or even "want, or need" the same rights.)

As for visiting the UK, I would hope to do so one day. My great-great Grandfather must have thought it was a great place to leav.. ur, live.. Or he did up to the moment he saved enough green stamps* to hitch a ride on the first thing sailing for the "colonies"....

After all's said and done if the "ball falls" I believe the British and American people have allies in each other.. And TO ME, that's a big deal. (perhaps that's one reason the Argentine folks are still po'ed at us?)

Best Wishes - Sincerely.

J. Pomeroy

* Actually I think he came over as an "indentured servant".. (You know that fact sucks when you try to brag about your family "heritage")..



__________________
"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened".


(PX/PX15/Laserlips: all samo/samo)
Laserlips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 18:12   #165
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Laserlips
TommyT:

There is one fact about the UK that overrides all others FOR ME.

I feel that the US has ONLY two allies who will both defend themselves, and support the US in our defense, and the UK is one of them.

That single fact is more important to me than whether or not I understand why the British subjects have allowed themselves to basically become disarmed.

So, while the continuing disarmament of the British is a puzzle to me, it's basically none of my business.

I think if we could exchange places for a year or so both of our attitudes about firearms and many other subjects would be forever altered.. It's all about the "walk a mile in my shoes" deal.

Basically as it stands, I think the average British subject feels no need of personal firearms ownership, so it's no big deal. On the other hand, a great number of Americans believe even if we have no personal need for firearms, we are free citizens, and should have the option to have them if we so chose. I think it's also a different mindset between a "subject" and a "citizen". Apparently that has been true for a long time, therein the 2nd Amendment.

Or, we are legally entitled to own firearms by our Constitution, so we resent anybody fooling with that 2nd Amendment freedom. We take the legal ownership of firearms as a given, and it's surprising to us why people in other countries don't have the same rights.. (Or even "want, or need" the same rights.)

As for visiting the UK, I would hope to do so one day. My great-great Grandfather must have thought it was a great place to leav.. ur, live.. Or he did up to the moment he saved enough green stamps* to hitch a ride on the first thing sailing for the "colonies"....

After all's said and done if the "ball falls" I believe the British and American people have allies in each other.. And TO ME, that's a big deal. (perhaps that's one reason the Argentine folks are still po'ed at us?)

Best Wishes - Sincerely.

J. Pomeroy

* Actually I think he came over as an "indentured servant".. (You know that fact sucks when you try to brag about your family "heritage")..



Totally agree with you! A well reasoned post by you LaserLips. All I was asking for (unsuccessfully) was some empathy for the way we live.
Contrary to what many people on here think, we enjoy just as many freedoms and liberties as our cousins accross the pond, with the exception of a right to bear arms. Our freely elected government decided to bring in sweeping gun laws, which I can assure you were widely welcomed by the vast majority of the population.

As a side point, I am not a British Subject. My passport says "British Citizen". A "British Subject" is something different. *SEE HERE*
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 03-27-2006 at 18:17..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 18:44   #166
Laserlips
"Laus Deo"
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,237
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT


As a side point, I am not a British Subject. My passport says "British Citizen". A "British Subject" is something different. *SEE HERE* [/B]
TommyT:

Ok.. I give. But you've got to admit unless you read all that stuff it could be confusing.'

Heck, I still can't figure out what the relationship of your Queen and Canada is? Or even why half of Canada speaks French.

Lifes a puzzle, then you die..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy



__________________
"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened".


(PX/PX15/Laserlips: all samo/samo)
Laserlips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 18:56   #167
seanmac45
CLM Number 38
Charter Lifetime Member
 
seanmac45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Brooklyn, NY
Posts: 6,163


They deserve whatever they get.
__________________
"Certainly there is no hunting like the hunting of man and those who have hunted armed men long enough and liked it, never really care for anything else thereafter." Ernest Hemingway
seanmac45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 19:53   #168
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Laserlips

Ok.. I give. But you've got to admit unless you read all that stuff it could be confusing.'
Hell yeah!

The Queen is the head of state of Canada. All goes back to the colonial days and the fact that it's never changed. AFAIK The Queen is still very popular over there. Thats not to say it wont change in future. In fact, the Australians are having this very debate again. In 1999 they voted in a referendum to keep The Queen as head of state rather than become a republic. It looks as if the tide is turning and things may well change. Good luck to them. If that's what the people of Oz want, fair play to them.
Many of the old Empire countries have become republics, athough most remain members of the Commonwealth.
She remains the head of state of most of the Carribean countries (ex British colonies), Australia, New Zealand, Canada and of course The UK.
Altough she is head of state, she holds no political power in the UK other than she must sign all new laws (Royal Assent). All decisions are made by the government.
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 03-27-2006 at 20:01..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2006, 19:54   #169
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by seanmac45
They deserve whatever they get.
Who do?
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 13:04   #170
Tempest UK
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Bucks, England
Posts: 24
Quote:
Originally posted by seanmac45
They deserve whatever they get.

Care to explain what you mean by that? Wouldn't want people to think you're simple minded or incapable of expressing yourself, after all

Regards,
Tempest
Tempest UK is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 13:29   #171
Laserlips
"Laus Deo"
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,237
Quote:
Originally posted by Tempest UK
Care to explain what you mean by that? Wouldn't want people to think you're simple minded or incapable of expressing yourself, after all

Regards,
Tempest
Well, I don't have a clue as to what seanmac45 was referring to, but since I'm a semi-senile redneck who lives in the woods of SE Ga. in a double-wide I don't even consider being called simple-minded, or incapable of expressing myself as a negative.

Heck, right after my sister and I got married we took some crap from Dad, (who thought he had "dibs" on her), but in a "simple minded" way we expressed our thoughts pretty clearly.

I will admit the conversation centered around the size of a hole a #4 buck will make on a human, a fat human, from 6 feet. Poppa fell off the turnip truck for sure, but it wasn't yesterday, so he kindly stepped aside and we went on off to Wally World on our honeymoon.

All to say when you get on this firearms forum you will certainly at some point in time be offended, but don't let it get to you, it's a National pasttime.. And if nothing else we are "equal opportunity offenders"..

Best Wishes,
J.P.

Gun-Control Issues

P.S.

No reason for the pictures other than it's two of my favorite concealed firearms. You need a set like this!
__________________
"Don't cry because it's over. Smile because it happened".


(PX/PX15/Laserlips: all samo/samo)
Laserlips is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 14:58   #172
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
[QUOTE

Gun-Control Issues

P.S.

No reason for the pictures other than it's two of my favorite concealed firearms. You need a set like this! [/B][/QUOTE]




I like the one on the right
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 15:55   #173
Ian
Senior Member
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: USA
Posts: 1,704
TommyT.
Good to see that you are still alive!
You mention that there is a large threat from knives rather than firearms.
How do cope with a knife wielder?
Surely you would be better equipped with extensive firearms training and a handgun.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 16:28   #174
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
TommyT.
Good to see that you are still alive!
You mention that there is a large threat from knives rather than firearms.
How do cope with a knife wielder?
Surely you would be better equipped with extensive firearms training and a handgun.
Hi Ian. Yeah, I'm still about.
Knives are indeed much more of a day-to-day threat. I've been a front line cop for nearly 3 years now and I have NEVER been to an incident involving firearms. Of course, they do happen, and tragically and officer in northern England was recently killed. It may happen a lot in the States, but here it is thankfully extremely rare, and national front page news.
Firearms 'jobs' are dealt with by the guys in the Armed Response teams.

Anyway I digress. How do we cope with a knife wielder? Well naturally it all depends on the incident. Factors like environment and amount of people involved all play a part, but our first line of defence is our mouths. Communication plays a monumenatlly big part, and I have been involved in numerous highly charged incidents where an officers ability to empathise and talk to, what often can be very disturbed people, has resulted in a safe outcome for all. We do of course carry ASP batons and CS spray. The CS is highly effective in dissabling violent people and has been use many times to great effect (although not by me, yet.)
As I might have mentioned before, CS spray here is a Class 5 firearm, and as such, is illegal to possess by all except on-duty police officers. It is kept securely at the police station when we are off duty.

The problem with arming the police service here is not just about the training, it's about recruitment. I know of extremely competent, highly skilled officers that would be useless with a gun. It's not their fault, it's just that they have never held a gun. I bet that 99% of beat cops serving in the UK have never fired a gun.
Until they implement some sort of assessment at the recruitment stage, where they can get an insight to someones ability to learn how to fire and safely handle guns, we can't be armed.

Currently the UK has 2 fully armed civilian police forces, but they are very small and highly specialized. I know for a fact that both these forces, the Ministry of Defence Police and The Civil Nuclear Constabulary, assess a persons suitability for firearms training upon application.
Take a look *HERE* and *HERE*.

To be honest, I cannot see it happening. However, our firearms guys do now carry Tazers, and maybe they might be generally issued in the future. We'll see......

Regards,

TT

P.S. I forgot to mention that we routinely wear overt body armour. Mine is brand new, and so we are told, the very best money can buy. Stab and ballistic proof.

Gun-Control Issues
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 03-29-2006 at 17:53..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 16:37   #175
1911copper
Aequitas
 
1911copper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oklahoma City Ok
Posts: 1,274
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
Hi Ian. Yeah, I'm still about.
Knives are indeed much more of a day-to-day threat. I've been a front line cop for nearly 3 years now and I have NEVER been to an incident involving firearms. Of course, they do happen, and tragically and officer in northern England was recently killed. It may happen a lot in the States, but here it is thankfully extremely rare, and national front page news.
Firearms 'jobs' are dealt with by the guys in the Armed Response teams.

Anyway I digress. How do we cope with a knife wielder? Well naturally it all depends on the incident. Factors like environment and amount of people involved all play a part, but our first line of defence is our mouths. Communication plays a monumenatlly big part, and I have been involved in numerous highly charged incidents where an officers ability to empathise and talk to, what often can be very disturbed people has resulted in a safe outcome for all. We do of course carry ASP batons and CS spray. The CS is highly effective in dissabling violent people and has been use many time to great effect (altough not by me, yet.)
As I might have mentioned before, CS spray here is a Class 5 fiream, and as such, is illegal to possess by all except on-duty police officers. It is kept securely at the police station when we are off duty.

The problem with arming the police service here is not just about the training, it's about recruitment. I know of extremely competent, highly skilled officers that would be useless with a gun. It's not their fault, it's just that they have never held a gun. I bet that 99% of cops serving in the UK have never fired a gun.
Until they implement some sort of assessment at the recruitment stage, where they can get an insight to someones ability to learn how to fire and safely handle guns, we can't be armed.

Currently the UK has 2 fully armed civilian police forces, but they are very small and highly specialized. I know for a fact that both these forces, the Ministry of Defence Police and The Civil Nuclear Constabulary, assess a persons suitability for firearms training upon application.
Take a look *HERE* and *HERE*.

To be honest, I cannot see it happening. However, our firearms guys do now carry Tazers, and maybe they might be generally issued in the future. We'll see......

Regards,

TT

P.S. I forgot to mention that we routinely wear overt body armour. Mine is brand new, and so we are told, the very best money can buy. Stab and ballistic proof.
Tommy,
First, I'd like to speculate about the cultural differences involved between the two of our nations. I once had a "Bobby" ride-along with me, and he told me that typically they could respond to a bar fight and point to suspects, and say, "You, you, you and you- you're all under arrest. Come along now," and most of the time they'd comply. This is a far cry from our experience, where we without exception handcuff everyone behind their back (its necessary) and would likely have to fight some or all of the aforementioned combatants into custody.
Converseley, I recently saw a video of two UK police officers in an amazing knock-down, drag-out fight with a suspect drug dealer who simply wouldn't stop fighting, even after pepper spray. What are your thoughts on this cultural issue?
BTW: as a long-time firearms instructor, I've often found women who've never shot before to be excellent students. The thinking here is that they've not picked up any bad habits yet, and aren't of the mind that they already "know how to shoot" and therefore take direction and training better.
Also- a bit off topic- but why is it some Brits are offended or roll their eyes when referred to as "English" or when one refers to the UK as "England?" What is the nuance involved here? What do you fellows prefer as references? Educate us.
__________________
"For he beareth the sword not in vain"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Last edited by 1911copper; 03-29-2006 at 16:41..
1911copper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 16:43   #176
Ian
Senior Member
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: USA
Posts: 1,704
Good eloquent and sensible posts.
TommyT, you are a brave man.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 16:55   #177
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Hi 911,
believe me, the days of "do come along now chap" are long gone. Street fights are something British coppers have become world experts on. Large fights outside British pubs, where drunken thugs would like nothing more then to rip a cops head off are commonplace. If someone is gonna be nicked, then they're gonna be nicked. Him and all his donut mates. If they kick off and want a tear-up, fine, but they're coming in one way or another. I'm 6'4 and built like a tank. If they want to try it (and they often do!), it's gonna get messy.

As for the British / English thing, what you will nearly always find is that someone from England will call himself either British or English. Most, including me refer to themself as English. It's the biggest country within the Union, with the biggest population.
However a Scotsman will ALWAYS say he's Scottish, a Welshman will ALWAYS say he's Welsh. Although we are a UNITED Kingdom, each country within the UK holds fierce national pride, even though the passports of all of us say we're British.

To a foreigner, me talking about countries within a country (the UK) may sound confusing, but to us it's normal. I suppose it's kind of like the way different states within the US pretty much govern themselves, but form the bigger picture as the USA. The difference is with us is, the countries within the UK used to all be separate, independant entities, but joined over the course of hundreds of years. However, old national customs and pride remain strong.
I am a proud Englishman. I have a very close Scottish friend who would knock your teeth out if you call him British ( ) but our passports are exactly the same! Confused? I am!
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 03-29-2006 at 16:59..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 17:01   #178
1911copper
Aequitas
 
1911copper's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Oklahoma City Ok
Posts: 1,274
Informative post. As for the street fights, I'm sure you'd be the one in the know.
__________________
"For he beareth the sword not in vain"

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
1911copper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 17:07   #179
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Take a look at this... Pretty typical Friday night here.

Edit: GAH! Tried to upload a good video, but it wont let me!
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 03-29-2006 at 17:10..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-29-2006, 17:23   #180
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by 1911copper
I once had a "Bobby" ride-along with me
I'd love to do that! Maybe if I return to the States sometime...
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 12:07.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,101
288 Members
813 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31