[Tempest UK]

Originally posted by TommyT

As an interesting side issue, the Serious Organised Crime and Police Act 2005 became law as of midnight tonight. It's a HUGE change in our powers of arrest. Basically ANY offence is now arrestable under Section 24 of the Police and Criminal Evidence Act. In the past, some offences were not 'arrestable' and had to be dealt with by summons etc.
It's not as simple as it sounds though. The new Act states that we should only arrest when other means, such as fixed penalty notices or the like are not appropriate. When the suspect is now arrested, not only must he be cautioned and given the reason for his arrest, but he must now be told why that arrest is necessary.
This only applies to England and Wales. Scotland's criminal law is different to the rest of the UK. [/B]

Jolly good show!

I bet the New Year has/will continue to result in a sharp increase in alcohol related problems.
;c

[Brown Hawk]

Tommy,

Well, New Years and a weekend all at the same time!;P

Here's hoping that you and all your mates made it through safely.

Best wishes,

Hawk

[TommyT]

Cheers guys.
To be fair, New Years was fairly quiet. Most people around here were quite well behaved, perhaps because most clubs / pubs were ticket only. Once people were inside, they stayed there all evening. Spirits were good and everyone seemed to have a good time.

Christmas Eve on the other hand was a nightmare. Fights all over the place! Was rushing around 'on the blues' for hours. ;Q ;f

[EntryTeamBJJMMA]

The UK populace have a long history of relying on their "masters"...the government (read: the aristocracy) to protect them. WE do not. WE took it upon ourselves to protect what WE owned and had control of. It is apparent, in national attitude, the differences in our recent history.

The british people need to wake up, or they'll find themsleves the unformtuneate victims of their own apathy.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-R

[TommyT]

Originally posted by EntryTeamBJJMMA
The UK populace have a long history of relying on their "masters"...the government (read: the aristocracy) to protect them. WE do not. WE took it upon ourselves to protect what WE owned and had control of. It is apparent, in national attitude, the differences in our recent history.

The british people need to wake up, or they'll find themsleves the unformtuneate victims of their own apathy.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-R

What a stupid comment.

Yeah, we're a backward civilization, who can't look after ourselves. We need Mummy Blair to tell us what to do.

*runs off to play with toys*

[Tempest UK]

Originally posted by EntryTeamBJJMMA
The UK populace have a long history of relying on their "masters"...the government (read: the aristocracy) to protect them. WE do not. WE took it upon ourselves to protect what WE owned and had control of. It is apparent, in national attitude, the differences in our recent history.

The british people need to wake up, or they'll find themsleves the unformtuneate victims of their own apathy.

God Bless America!!!!!!!!!!!!!

-R

;a


...oh...you're serious. Well, a post of such pre-pubescent proportions doesn't deserve a serious response.

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Tempest UK
;a


...oh...you're serious. Well, a post of such pre-pubescent proportions doesn't deserve a serious response.

Indeed. To think they actually let someone with such a childish attitude own so many guns (sig) perhaps sums up perfectly why we have the laws we do. ;Q

That, and of course the fact that we are all the subserviant slaves of our government. ;a

[Hugh Neal]

I always believed the old maxim "Beware the man who only has one gun - he probably knows how to use it!"

[Hugh Neal]

From BBC News online:

A policewoman who was shot in the stomach by a gunman has said "sorry" to her family for not catching him.

Pc Rachael Bown, 23, of Nottinghamshire Police, who is still in a serious condition in hospital, told her father she had let her colleagues down.

She was on duty with an experienced male officer when she was shot in the abdomen below her body armour in Nottingham late on Monday night.

No-one has been arrested and the police investigation continues.


We just want her to get better and bring her home Jan Bown, Rachael's mother.

Her parents, Martin and Jan Bown, said their daughter's first thoughts when she awoke from surgery was that she had let her colleagues down.

The attack happened about half a mile from where the burglary took place.

Pc Bown underwent emergency surgery at the city's Queen's Medical Centre.

Mr Martin, 44, said: "When she opened her eyes the first thing she said was 'sorry dad, I'm going to get the sack'.

"That's the sort of girl she is, she is always thinking of others and would hate to think she'd let anyone down."

Her parents described the last two days as a living nightmare.

[1911copper]

Originally posted by big grip
I took this from my post on the CCW forum, figured it would go here well.

Here's a link, it's 46 pages in a pdf so you can save it to your hard drive.

http://www.unicri.it/icvs/publicati...y2000i/app4.pdf

You will want to check tables # 1, 6 & 25.

The US has a decreasing violent crime rate and the so-called "civilized" nations of the UK, Canada and Austrilia have raising violent crime. I noticed that the UK breaks out Scotland from England & Whales.

BTW, this is from a UN web page therefore liberals CAN NOT ARGUE with you about it.

Have you got a current link? I need this information.

[Hugh Neal]

Thanks 1911Copper - I thought that the thread had died!

I cannot help you with the link, but UKProGun might be able to.

Incidentally, since I posted the article about the woman cop shot by a bad guy, she has made a pretty much full recovery and the police made an arrest (it has not gone to court yet).

Everyone in the UK seems to be pretty much preoccupied with the £53 Million (about $75 million) cash robbery that took place a couple of weeks ago in Tonbridge, Kent (not very far from where I live, actually). Some of the cash has been recovered in Welling, Kent (literally up the road from my place). Lots of jokes about looking for hidden cash in the garden potting shed and the like, but there really is around £30 million still unrecovered and I guess the stash must be local to me.....

[UK Pro Gun]

Hi all,

1911Copper
Is this the link you were looking for:

http://www.unicri.it/wwd/analysis/icvs/publications.php

Click on, "Alv***i del Frate, Anna, Van Kesteren, J.N., (2004) 'Criminal Victimisation in Urban Europe. Key findings of the 2000 International Crime Victims Survey'. Turin, UNICRI. Full text in PDF"

If you think that the worse thing that can happen here in GB, (Gone Barmy Britain) is that you can't use a gun for active self defense then look at this:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4788930.stm

Last Updated: Thursday, 9 March 2006, 11:14 GMT
E-mail this to a friend Printable version

Schoolboy wears stab-proof vest
A schoolboy wore a stab-proof vest beneath his uniform after being threatened.

The boy, 16, is believed to have worn it on his journey to and from the Lammas School in Leyton, east London.

A police officer was made aware of a pupil wearing "what was believed to be a stab-proof vest", said a spokesman for Scotland Yard.

He added that in consultation with the school "the officer told the pupil to remove the vest".

Police became aware of the vest through the local Safer Schools officer - part of a programme running in 34 local education authorities, with high levels of truancy and crime.

They have become increasingly concerned about the number of people arming themselves with knives - nearly 80 people were killed in knife attacks in London last year.

They have also been running several campaigns in an attempt to alert youngsters to the dangers of carrying knives.

So now passive defense is also illegal, what next, if mugged and you actually run away you'll be fined!

New topic:
Any jobs for a wirefree fire alarm techhie in NC? Help a poor 'subject' get to become a real citizen;g

[1911copper]

Thanks, UK.

[Laserlips]

Originally posted by TommyT
At last, someone who talks with some sense.
To be honest I'm totally bored with most on here b itching about our way of life in the UK, when in fact, most have absolutely no idea about life here. You don't like it? Fine, don't come here, you wont be missed.

TommyT:

There is one fact about the UK that overrides all others FOR ME.

I feel that the US has ONLY two allies who will both defend themselves, and support the US in our defense, and the UK is one of them.

That single fact is more important to me than whether or not I understand why the British subjects have allowed themselves to basically become disarmed.

So, while the continuing disarmament of the British is a puzzle to me, it's basically none of my business.

I think if we could exchange places for a year or so both of our attitudes about firearms and many other subjects would be forever altered.. It's all about the "walk a mile in my shoes" deal.

Basically as it stands, I think the average British subject feels no need of personal firearms ownership, so it's no big deal. On the other hand, a great number of Americans believe even if we have no personal need for firearms, we are free citizens, and should have the option to have them if we so chose. I think it's also a different mindset between a "subject" and a "citizen". Apparently that has been true for a long time, therein the 2nd Amendment.

Or, we are legally entitled to own firearms by our Constitution, so we resent anybody fooling with that 2nd Amendment freedom. We take the legal ownership of firearms as a given, and it's surprising to us why people in other countries don't have the same rights.. (Or even "want, or need" the same rights.)

As for visiting the UK, I would hope to do so one day. My great-great Grandfather must have thought it was a great place to leav.. ur, live.. Or he did up to the moment he saved enough green stamps* to hitch a ride on the first thing sailing for the "colonies"....

After all's said and done if the "ball falls" I believe the British and American people have allies in each other.. And TO ME, that's a big deal. (perhaps that's one reason the Argentine folks are still po'ed at us?)

Best Wishes - Sincerely.

J. Pomeroy

* Actually I think he came over as an "indentured servant".. (You know that fact sucks when you try to brag about your family "heritage")..

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Laserlips
TommyT:

There is one fact about the UK that overrides all others FOR ME.

I feel that the US has ONLY two allies who will both defend themselves, and support the US in our defense, and the UK is one of them.

That single fact is more important to me than whether or not I understand why the British subjects have allowed themselves to basically become disarmed.

So, while the continuing disarmament of the British is a puzzle to me, it's basically none of my business.

I think if we could exchange places for a year or so both of our attitudes about firearms and many other subjects would be forever altered.. It's all about the "walk a mile in my shoes" deal.

Basically as it stands, I think the average British subject feels no need of personal firearms ownership, so it's no big deal. On the other hand, a great number of Americans believe even if we have no personal need for firearms, we are free citizens, and should have the option to have them if we so chose. I think it's also a different mindset between a "subject" and a "citizen". Apparently that has been true for a long time, therein the 2nd Amendment.

Or, we are legally entitled to own firearms by our Constitution, so we resent anybody fooling with that 2nd Amendment freedom. We take the legal ownership of firearms as a given, and it's surprising to us why people in other countries don't have the same rights.. (Or even "want, or need" the same rights.)

As for visiting the UK, I would hope to do so one day. My great-great Grandfather must have thought it was a great place to leav.. ur, live.. Or he did up to the moment he saved enough green stamps* to hitch a ride on the first thing sailing for the "colonies"....

After all's said and done if the "ball falls" I believe the British and American people have allies in each other.. And TO ME, that's a big deal. (perhaps that's one reason the Argentine folks are still po'ed at us?)

Best Wishes - Sincerely.

J. Pomeroy

* Actually I think he came over as an "indentured servant".. (You know that fact sucks when you try to brag about your family "heritage")..

Totally agree with you! A well reasoned post by you LaserLips. All I was asking for (unsuccessfully) was some empathy for the way we live.
Contrary to what many people on here think, we enjoy just as many freedoms and liberties as our cousins accross the pond, with the exception of a right to bear arms. Our freely elected government decided to bring in sweeping gun laws, which I can assure you were widely welcomed by the vast majority of the population.

As a side point, I am not a British Subject. My passport says "British Citizen". A "British Subject" is something different. *SEE HERE*

[Laserlips]

Originally posted by TommyT


As a side point, I am not a British Subject. My passport says "British Citizen". A "British Subject" is something different. *SEE HERE* [/B]

TommyT:

Ok.. I give. But you've got to admit unless you read all that stuff it could be confusing.'

Heck, I still can't figure out what the relationship of your Queen and Canada is? Or even why half of Canada speaks French.

Lifes a puzzle, then you die..

Best Wishes,

J. Pomeroy

[seanmac45]

They deserve whatever they get.

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Laserlips

Ok.. I give. But you've got to admit unless you read all that stuff it could be confusing.'

Hell yeah!

The Queen is the head of state of Canada. All goes back to the colonial days and the fact that it's never changed. AFAIK The Queen is still very popular over there. Thats not to say it wont change in future. In fact, the Australians are having this very debate again. In 1999 they voted in a referendum to keep The Queen as head of state rather than become a republic. It looks as if the tide is turning and things may well change. Good luck to them. If that's what the people of Oz want, fair play to them.
Many of the old Empire countries have become republics, athough most remain members of the Commonwealth.
She remains the head of state of most of the Carribean countries (ex British colonies), Australia, New Zealand, Canada and of course The UK.
Altough she is head of state, she holds no political power in the UK other than she must sign all new laws (Royal Assent). All decisions are made by the government.

[TommyT]

Originally posted by seanmac45
They deserve whatever they get.

Who do?

[Tempest UK]

Originally posted by seanmac45
They deserve whatever they get.

Care to explain what you mean by that? Wouldn't want people to think you're simple minded or incapable of expressing yourself, after all

Regards,
Tempest

[Laserlips]

Originally posted by Tempest UK
Care to explain what you mean by that? Wouldn't want people to think you're simple minded or incapable of expressing yourself, after all

Regards,
Tempest

Well, I don't have a clue as to what seanmac45 was referring to, but since I'm a semi-senile redneck who lives in the woods of SE Ga. in a double-wide I don't even consider being called simple-minded, or incapable of expressing myself as a negative.

Heck, right after my sister and I got married we took some crap from Dad, (who thought he had "dibs" on her), but in a "simple minded" way we expressed our thoughts pretty clearly.

I will admit the conversation centered around the size of a hole a #4 buck will make on a human, a fat human, from 6 feet. Poppa fell off the turnip truck for sure, but it wasn't yesterday, so he kindly stepped aside and we went on off to Wally World on our honeymoon.

All to say when you get on this firearms forum you will certainly at some point in time be offended, but don't let it get to you, it's a National pasttime.. And if nothing else we are "equal opportunity offenders"..

Best Wishes,
J.P.



P.S.

No reason for the pictures other than it's two of my favorite concealed firearms. You need a set like this!

[TommyT]

[QUOTE



P.S.

No reason for the pictures other than it's two of my favorite concealed firearms. You need a set like this! [/B][/QUOTE]




I like the one on the right

[Ian]

TommyT.
Good to see that you are still alive!
You mention that there is a large threat from knives rather than firearms.
How do cope with a knife wielder?
Surely you would be better equipped with extensive firearms training and a handgun.

[TommyT]

Originally posted by Ian
TommyT.
Good to see that you are still alive!
You mention that there is a large threat from knives rather than firearms.
How do cope with a knife wielder?
Surely you would be better equipped with extensive firearms training and a handgun.

Hi Ian. Yeah, I'm still about.
Knives are indeed much more of a day-to-day threat. I've been a front line cop for nearly 3 years now and I have NEVER been to an incident involving firearms. Of course, they do happen, and tragically and officer in northern England was recently killed. It may happen a lot in the States, but here it is thankfully extremely rare, and national front page news.
Firearms 'jobs' are dealt with by the guys in the Armed Response teams.

Anyway I digress. How do we cope with a knife wielder? Well naturally it all depends on the incident. Factors like environment and amount of people involved all play a part, but our first line of defence is our mouths. Communication plays a monumenatlly big part, and I have been involved in numerous highly charged incidents where an officers ability to empathise and talk to, what often can be very disturbed people, has resulted in a safe outcome for all. We do of course carry ASP batons and CS spray. The CS is highly effective in dissabling violent people and has been use many times to great effect (although not by me, yet.)
As I might have mentioned before, CS spray here is a Class 5 firearm, and as such, is illegal to possess by all except on-duty police officers. It is kept securely at the police station when we are off duty.

The problem with arming the police service here is not just about the training, it's about recruitment. I know of extremely competent, highly skilled officers that would be useless with a gun. It's not their fault, it's just that they have never held a gun. I bet that 99% of beat cops serving in the UK have never fired a gun.
Until they implement some sort of assessment at the recruitment stage, where they can get an insight to someones ability to learn how to fire and safely handle guns, we can't be armed.

Currently the UK has 2 fully armed civilian police forces, but they are very small and highly specialized. I know for a fact that both these forces, the Ministry of Defence Police and The Civil Nuclear Constabulary, assess a persons suitability for firearms training upon application.
Take a look *HERE* and *HERE*.

To be honest, I cannot see it happening. However, our firearms guys do now carry Tazers, and maybe they might be generally issued in the future. We'll see......

Regards,

TT

P.S. I forgot to mention that we routinely wear overt body armour. Mine is brand new, and so we are told, the very best money can buy. Stab and ballistic proof.

[1911copper]

Originally posted by TommyT
Hi Ian. Yeah, I'm still about.
Knives are indeed much more of a day-to-day threat. I've been a front line cop for nearly 3 years now and I have NEVER been to an incident involving firearms. Of course, they do happen, and tragically and officer in northern England was recently killed. It may happen a lot in the States, but here it is thankfully extremely rare, and national front page news.
Firearms 'jobs' are dealt with by the guys in the Armed Response teams.

Anyway I digress. How do we cope with a knife wielder? Well naturally it all depends on the incident. Factors like environment and amount of people involved all play a part, but our first line of defence is our mouths. Communication plays a monumenatlly big part, and I have been involved in numerous highly charged incidents where an officers ability to empathise and talk to, what often can be very disturbed people has resulted in a safe outcome for all. We do of course carry ASP batons and CS spray. The CS is highly effective in dissabling violent people and has been use many time to great effect (altough not by me, yet.)
As I might have mentioned before, CS spray here is a Class 5 fiream, and as such, is illegal to possess by all except on-duty police officers. It is kept securely at the police station when we are off duty.

The problem with arming the police service here is not just about the training, it's about recruitment. I know of extremely competent, highly skilled officers that would be useless with a gun. It's not their fault, it's just that they have never held a gun. I bet that 99% of cops serving in the UK have never fired a gun.
Until they implement some sort of assessment at the recruitment stage, where they can get an insight to someones ability to learn how to fire and safely handle guns, we can't be armed.

Currently the UK has 2 fully armed civilian police forces, but they are very small and highly specialized. I know for a fact that both these forces, the Ministry of Defence Police and The Civil Nuclear Constabulary, assess a persons suitability for firearms training upon application.
Take a look *HERE* and *HERE*.

To be honest, I cannot see it happening. However, our firearms guys do now carry Tazers, and maybe they might be generally issued in the future. We'll see......

Regards,

TT

P.S. I forgot to mention that we routinely wear overt body armour. Mine is brand new, and so we are told, the very best money can buy. Stab and ballistic proof.

Tommy,
First, I'd like to speculate about the cultural differences involved between the two of our nations. I once had a "Bobby" ride-along with me, and he told me that typically they could respond to a bar fight and point to suspects, and say, "You, you, you and you- you're all under arrest. Come along now," and most of the time they'd comply. This is a far cry from our experience, where we without exception handcuff everyone behind their back (its necessary) and would likely have to fight some or all of the aforementioned combatants into custody.
Converseley, I recently saw a video of two UK police officers in an amazing knock-down, drag-out fight with a suspect drug dealer who simply wouldn't stop fighting, even after pepper spray. What are your thoughts on this cultural issue?
BTW: as a long-time firearms instructor, I've often found women who've never shot before to be excellent students. The thinking here is that they've not picked up any bad habits yet, and aren't of the mind that they already "know how to shoot" and therefore take direction and training better.
Also- a bit off topic- but why is it some Brits are offended or roll their eyes when referred to as "English" or when one refers to the UK as "England?" What is the nuance involved here? What do you fellows prefer as references? Educate us.