Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 09-12-2005, 14:17   #61
Ian
Senior Member
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: USA
Posts: 1,704
So it's ok to shoot an inocent deer, but not someone intent on taking your life or your childs life?
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 14:21   #62
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
So it's ok to shoot an inocent deer, but not someone intent on taking your life or your childs life?
I give up.
Look, I didn't come on here to justify or argue the whys and wherefors of English law, I was just trying to inform people as to why they were implemented.

It's obvious I'm wasting my time. ;Q
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 14:26   #63
Ian
Senior Member
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: USA
Posts: 1,704
I apologize.
I wasn't serious.
I just believe strongly in self defense.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 14:31   #64
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
I apologize.
I wasn't serious.
I just believe strongly in self defense.
And so you should. So do I in fact.
However, what you must understand is that our cultures are very different.
You have the right to have a gun for self defence. For the US, and the way it has developed since conception, that right it is proportional and appropriate. For the UK, it isn't.

As I have stated, most of the police here don't have a gun! Ask yourself the question why that is....
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 14:37   #65
Ian
Senior Member
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: USA
Posts: 1,704
Well before I left England, one officer I knew that was working in the Royal Mews, said that he wanted to give back his handgun. When I asked him why, he said that he hadn't received enough training.
I was shocked to find out that he only trained twice a year.;P
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 14:43   #66
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Ian
Well before I left England, one officer I knew that was working in the Royal Mews, said that he wanted to give back his handgun. When I asked him why, he said that he hadn't received enough training.
I was shocked to find out that he only trained twice a year.;P

Believe me, it is very different now. British Police firearms teams are amongst the best, most highly trained anywhere in the world.

May I recommend the book "The good guys wear black" by Steve Collins.
A very good read which gives a good insight into SO19 (The Metropolitan Police's 'SWAT' team). Very interesting.
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 09-12-2005 at 14:47..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 15:04   #67
Ian
Senior Member
 
Ian's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 1998
Location: USA
Posts: 1,704
Thank you.
I will.
Ian is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2005, 15:07   #68
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Just checked - it is sold on Amazon.co.uk

A riveting read. ;f

Gun-Control Issues
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 09-12-2005 at 15:15..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2005, 07:53   #69
SgtKabar
Semper Fidelis
 
SgtKabar's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Delaware
Posts: 53
What about the criminals?

Hello, TommyT,

The press reports that your criminals did not disarm with the general population in the UK, and as a result, violent crime and gun crime have risen a great deal. Is this true? If so, how do the authorities plan to deal with this unanticipated, but predictable, consequence? Further, we've heard that a great many more Bobbies are now issued firearms for routine carry while on duty.

In the U.S., the police have no responsibility to respond to a citizen in distress. It seems that it's entirely discretionary, and many of our law enforcement personnel are engaged primarily in taking reports after the fact. Is this the case in the UK?

Finally, your borders seems to be nearly as porous as those of the U.S. If you can't keep uncountable kilotons of drugs out of the UK, how will you keep a couple of million guns per year out of the hands of criminals in your country?

Respectfully,

Ken Kabar
__________________
It's not the bill of needs,
it's the Bill of Rights
SgtKabar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2005, 15:11   #70
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Re: What about the criminals?

Quote:
Originally posted by SgtKabar
Hello, TommyT,

The press reports that your criminals did not disarm with the general population in the UK, and as a result, violent crime and gun crime have risen a great deal. Is this true? If so, how do the authorities plan to deal with this unanticipated, but predictable, consequence? Further, we've heard that a great many more Bobbies are now issued firearms for routine carry while on duty.

In the U.S., the police have no responsibility to respond to a citizen in distress. It seems that it's entirely discretionary, and many of our law enforcement personnel are engaged primarily in taking reports after the fact. Is this the case in the UK?

Finally, your borders seems to be nearly as porous as those of the U.S. If you can't keep uncountable kilotons of drugs out of the UK, how will you keep a couple of million guns per year out of the hands of criminals in your country?

Respectfully,

Ken Kabar
Some good questions, which I will answer to the best of my ability.
Naturally, the criminal element who had guns before the ban continue to have guns today. I wouldn't say gun crime has increased though.
In my 2 years as an officer I have not been involved in a firearms incident (that's not, of course, to say I wont.)

Bad guys who have always had guns, always will have guns.
It's interesting to point out that armed robberies (involving [real] guns) have decreased a great deal since their peak in the 70's.


Our responsiblies. Hmm perhaps it would be useful to show you the oath all officers must swear in front of a magistrate and cheif police officer to become a cop.......

"I , [Name], of [Town of residence], do solemnly and sincerely declare and affirm that I will well and truly serve the Queen in the office of constable, with fairness, integrity, diligence and impartiality, upholding fundamental human rights and according equal respect to all people; and that I will to the best of my power cause the peace to be kept and preserved and prevent all offences against people and property; and that while I continue to hold the said office I will to the best of my skill and knowledge discharge all the duties thereof faithfully according to law."

The oath is the same regardless of the force or if the officer is a regular constable or special constable (volunteer police officers (who have exactly the same powers as regulars))


When you say someone in "distress" I take it you mean someone in immediate danger or threat of attack?
If so, then yes, naturally we are duty bound to render aid. The key phrase in the oath is "prevent all offences against people and property"
As police officers we have a duty of care under the Human Rights Act to help people in distress (this obviously doesnt mean we'll pull out all the stops just because someone has missed the bus!)

As for the porous borders, yes I will agree things could be better. However we do have the advantage of being an island. I'm certainly not a Tony Blair fan (my vote is for the other guy!)The government are getting a hard time here because of illegal immigration and keep telling us they are going to improve things. That remains to be seen. The latest idea is to set up a national "border police." Like I said, remains to be seen, but I am sceptical.
As for the guns, well market force drive the imports. If the market is there then I suppose the importers will always find away. However, like I have said, the market really isn't there. Much more of a problem is knife crime. There seems to have been a recent explosion of knife crime in the UK. Most UK officers (including myself) wear kevlar body armour to counteract this threat. It's much more of a problem than guns.
That and street violence due to binge drinking. Friday and saturday night violence because of drink is bread and butter stuff to me. I'm convinced British cops deal with more "full-on brawls" and public order incidents than any other police service in the world. It is a truly national problem. I've turned into quite a slugger! ;f

Regards,

Tom.
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 09-14-2005 at 15:10..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2005, 16:36   #71
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Looks like it's about to get even stricter..........

SKY NEWS;Q
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 09-13-2005 at 16:38..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 14:52   #72
Hugh Neal
Member
 
Hugh Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Erith, Kent just SE of London, UK.
Posts: 56
Well, here's my first post on this forum for a couple of years (sorry for being away for such a long time chaps!)

TommyT - I would guess that you are a copper from a rural area, not having come across gun crime in the last couple of years on the beat. I surmise that you are based somewhere out in the sticks.

I am an (after the gun ban) ex Glock 17 (serial no. AVB 820) owner based in North Kent / South East London, and I can tell you that unlicenced firearms, mainly from the former Communist countries are rife. I too would welcome the chance to carry a pistol for self defence - "better to be judged by twelve than carried by six".
Hugh Neal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 15:24   #73
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Hugh Neal
TommyT - I would guess that you are a copper from a rural area, not having come across gun crime in the last couple of years on the beat. I surmise that you are based somewhere out in the sticks.
Indeed I am, and very near you!;f
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2005, 15:30   #74
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Hugh Neal
I can tell you that unlicenced firearms, mainly from the former Communist countries are rife.
You don't need to tell me mate. I may be in the sticks, but I've not got my head in the cow pats! However, unless you take into account shootings in metropolitan areas, gun crime throughout the UK is minimal. As I have already said, knives are much more of a problem.
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 10:14   #75
RENEA
Black Rifle guy
 
RENEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Iraq
Posts: 3,908
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
You don't need to tell me mate. I may be in the sticks, but I've not got my head in the cow pats! However, unless you take into account shootings in metropolitan areas, gun crime throughout the UK is minimal. As I have already said, knives are much more of a problem.
Perhaps a nationwide ban on them would solve that problem. Besides government butchers, doctors and the like why would a mere commoner need a knife?;f
__________________
Black Rifle Club #L2A2
H&K Fan Club #64
Walther Fan Club #38
SKS Carbiner's Club #1949
Kalashnikov Klub #1977
RENEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 10:17   #76
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by RENEA
Perhaps a nationwide ban on them would solve that problem. Besides government butchers, doctors and the like why would a mere commoner need a knife?;f
lol! Good point! ;f

(already is illegal to carry a blade over 3 inches. Lock knives and flick knives are banned)
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 11:44   #77
RENEA
Black Rifle guy
 
RENEA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Iraq
Posts: 3,908
Quote:
Originally posted by TommyT
lol! Good point! ;f

(already is illegal to carry a blade over 3 inches. Lock knives and flick knives are banned)
Well then... lets ban..SOMETHING! Beer mugs, golf clubs, pool cues....;f
__________________
Black Rifle Club #L2A2
H&K Fan Club #64
Walther Fan Club #38
SKS Carbiner's Club #1949
Kalashnikov Klub #1977
RENEA is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 12:26   #78
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by RENEA
Well then... lets ban..SOMETHING! Beer mugs, golf clubs, pool cues....;f

No problems with banning golf clubs (I hate golf), but beer mugs?! NO WAY! The Brits drink way too much beer for that to ever happen! That includes me! ;a
;V ;V ;V ;V
__________________
English police officer
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 12:37   #79
Hugh Neal
Member
 
Hugh Neal's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Erith, Kent just SE of London, UK.
Posts: 56
I agree TommyT - why on earth do Golfists need a bag stuffed full of so many different types of golf bats is beyond me. Why not just have a "one size fits all" model?

I would like to see real life "Rollerball" personally.
Hugh Neal is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-24-2005, 12:44   #80
TommyT
Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 74
Quote:
Originally posted by Hugh Neal
[BI would like to see real life "Rollerball" personally. [/B]
Now that would be cool!
I assume the annual US - UK competition would follow domestic rules, whereby the Yanks come fully padded up (a la American Football), with personal assistants for all the players, huge salaries and gangs of groupies, and the Brits turn up from the pub, beer one hand, cigarette in other, no padding whatsoever and one fan called bob, who's bought along his Jack Russell. (a la rugby) ;f

Gun-Control Issues
__________________
English police officer

Last edited by TommyT; 09-24-2005 at 12:47..
TommyT is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:00.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,085
316 Members
769 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31