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Old 09-21-2012, 20:47   #226
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Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
Helooooo ! Anyone out there? <<< crickets >>>

Did all the women go on vacation?

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Old 09-21-2012, 20:51   #227
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wow this is an interesting story. I believe the guy was trying to kidnap you but maybe he is a rookie. lol Did you get to write down his license plate ?
Thank you
No, didn't even noticed the plate. Several cops in the area I talked to thought it was not only a kidnapping but gang-related, possibly being an initiation. Guess he didn't get in that day.
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Old 09-24-2012, 18:22   #228
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Originally Posted by BonnieB View Post
I was debating whether I really needed a CCL. Due to this thread, I have no further doubts.

I am applying this week. It'll take a while, but I'm applying.

Well done! to the OP and all the others who contributed.
This thread has cause several people to rethink their own protection, and that's the best reason to share a story like this.
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Old 09-25-2012, 09:18   #229
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I was rear-ended once, in stop and go traffic on a busy road. Low speed impact, but it was surprising nonetheless when it was not expected. I wasn't hurt or anything, from the rear view mirror, I saw the guy who hit me was already out of his car, and looking at my bumper. I got out to look at the damage. Car was fine, just a crack and couple scratches. He apologized profusely, asked me if I was hurt, and gave me his license and insurance card. We exchanged phone number as well, after which we both drove off. The next day, I called my insurance company and his to file a claim. Car was fixed by the end of the following week. No big deal, life goes on. It was no more nuisance than having to pick up an acquaintance from the airport.

I am in the minority to think that you over-reacted. If this accident happened in a secluded part of the town, late at night, without many people around, then you were spot on to do what you did. But what do you think he was going to do, in the middle of the day, with many cars/people around, having no accomplice? What if you shot him, and found out later that he was just a regular guy, wife and a couple of kids, elderly parents, etc... Could you live with yourself?

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Old 09-25-2012, 10:33   #230
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........He takes a few steps back and calls somebody. I crack the back window enough I can hear him agitatedly telling them "No,no, I can't do that." Then, "No, that won't work." And finally, "No, I don't think she will do that" followed by "I don't think I can" while he is dancing around. Well, while he is on the phone I call back to 911.........................
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....................... But what do you think he was going to do, in the middle of the day, with many cars/people around, having no accomplice?.......................


Sounds like an accomplice to me. And she had no way to know whether or not that person was nearby.
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Old 09-25-2012, 10:53   #231
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Sounds like an accomplice to me. And she had no way to know whether or not that person was nearby.
He could be on the phone with his insurance company, or a friend, or a sniper hiding in the bushes, or the president. MrsKitty called someone too, 911 no less, right? You also have to realize that there are at least 3 versions of this encounter - OP's version, the alleged bad guy's, and what actually happened. Not counting potential witness' account of the events. And let me remind you the conclusion of the story, which was nothing. OP's instinct would have been spectacular, if the police officer discovered that the guy was driving a stolen car, had lengthy criminal record, in possession of a firearm illegally, drugs in the trunk, etc...

I am glad MrsKitty was fine. Although she while not wrong, over-reacted. Common sense would have sufficed.
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Old 09-25-2012, 11:02   #232
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He looks at me, quickly takes a couple steps backwards and tells me that he is moving his car off the road into an adjacent parking lot. I tell him "Fine. Then you need to stay in your car until the police arrive. Do you understand?" He says, "You called the police?" I tell him yes, twice. He hauls butt to the car and runs. The last I saw of him was his taillights under the red light he ran.
This leads me to believe her instincts were spot on.
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Old 09-25-2012, 12:08   #233
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He could be on the phone with his insurance company, or a friend, or a sniper hiding in the bushes, or the president. MrsKitty called someone too, 911 no less, right? You also have to realize that there are at least 3 versions of this encounter - OP's version, the alleged bad guy's, and what actually happened. Not counting potential witness' account of the events. And let me remind you the conclusion of the story, which was nothing. OP's instinct would have been spectacular, if the police officer discovered that the guy was driving a stolen car, had lengthy criminal record, in possession of a firearm illegally, drugs in the trunk, etc...

I am glad MrsKitty was fine. Although she while not wrong, over-reacted. Common sense would have sufficed.
She used common sense. She stayed in her car, she called 911, she had a way to protect herself at the ready. She also told the guy to back off instead of shooting him or anything like that. The fact that the guy ran when she said she'd called the police is a pretty good indicator that he was up to no good. Other wise he'd have stuck around until they got there.

The conversation she heard on the phone doesn't sound like one she'd have with her insurance company either, so the smart thing to do is prepare for the worst and hope for the best.
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Old 09-25-2012, 14:34   #234
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I understand that some people may think the OP over-reacted. But I have to say, for women especially, there is no such thing as too much caution in such situations.
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Old 09-25-2012, 22:33   #235
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No, didn't even noticed the plate. Several cops in the area I talked to thought it was not only a kidnapping but gang-related, possibly being an initiation. Guess he didn't get in that day.
In most scenarios it was gang related. If the kid was Latino he may have run off because he was illegal..because even though people think differently..most are illegals.

Then if he was Black he was probably a gang banger too. Lastly, if he was White he may have been a gangbanger nowadays too. In the old days the races were separate for gangs but now they sometimes untermingle and make things very difficult.

Good job though.
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Old 09-26-2012, 18:58   #236
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The problem with telling yourself that you are overreacting and should just use "common sense" is that it means you are ignoring your instincts. Women are trained to ignore their instincts in the face of danger, in favor of NOT OFFENDING anyone. That's why they make easier victims. I'd rather offend a few thin-skinned people who do not understand the world as it is for the women in it, than be kidnapped, raped, and/or dead.

Even if the OP was actually NOT the man's intended victim, she still made the right call.

That is all.
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Old 09-29-2012, 12:02   #237
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You WERE almost jacked! A very similar incident happened to me at a gun range, several years ago. Same, 'song and dance' routine; same indecisive ambiguous behavior. In my opinion your caution and reserved aggression were warranted. This could, very easily, have turned out bad for you.

In my case I had, just, shot off the cylinder and two belt reloads with my Model 29, when - out of nowhere - this swarthy, well-dressed guy suddenly appears behind me; when I first saw him, he was standing next to my range bag! (He must have been watching me and deliberately staying out of my field of view.) He gave me a weird grin and remarked; 'You shot her dry; didn't you!' That was all I needed to hear; from that moment on, I had no doubt what was taking place. I immediately held the 44 magnum up with my left hand and showed him the open empty cylinder. As he looked at the Model 29 and smiled, I drew a pistol from my right hip, and said; 'Yes it's empty, all right; but this one is ready to go!'

Now this guy had, 'brass'. I could tell he was, 'phased' but not about to give up. (He, actually, made me feel like a, 'pigeon'.) He engaged me in a, sort of, jovial banter while steadily moving toward my gun hand. We, almost, completed a full circle together while he made small talk: He'd move to my right side; I'd shift my gun hand away from him; and he'd continue to move with me. He acted comical; but I could see the frustration in his eyes. I finally put one of the benchrests between us, cocked the hammer, and lay my hand down on the table with the muzzle pointing straight at him. I asked him; 'What kind of game are we playing, here?' His reply startled me. 'All I'm doing, today, is trying to pick up a birthday present for a friend.' Then he walked away from me; and I immediately threw my stuff in the truck and left the range. Shortly thereafter I bought my first cell phone; today, whenever I go out, I am never without it.

Now I'm the kind of guy who crosses every, 'T' and dots every, 'I'; but, in any situation like this, if you wait until that moment when you are absolutely certain, then, in my opinion, it will already be too late! I think you did the right thing. Oh, yeah, this guy had his left hand in his front pants pocket, almost, the entire time he talked to me. When he turned to leave I caught a glimpse of what I believe to have been a little, silver, Raven semi-automatic. I guess he didn't want to match it against the fifteen rounds held in my S&W Model 59. Smart choice!
wow i have never heard of this kind of method for robbery the bump and jack or the waiting till your empty thing although i always thought it would be a good idea to have something ready but rarely have thank you OP and who i am quoting you very well might have saved my life

in the OP's case i think you responded perfectly as long as your car was still in drive or your foot was on the clutch with the gearshift in first the whole time although after the first back away from the car i would have been brandishing all over the place and have already told him the cops were on their way but then i tend to be more aggressive and in a different circumstance that very well could put ME in the back of the cop car

as far as the quote goes i would have shot him about when 182 degrees of the first circling had been covered or if not certainly he would be admiring the hp cavity on a 127gr ranger t +p+ but again thats me and i tend to not take chances and your response obviously made the problem go away
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:05   #238
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Staged car accident was used in my city a while back, looks like a hired hit on a local business man (construction industry). Bumped his car at a stop sign on rural edge of town, and then shot him when he got out of his car.

For any behavior you see, consider if something was accidental and what could have caused it, or if it was intentional and what someone might be after. Same with what people tell you: is it the truth or what they believe, or could it be false (and what motivations would they have for lying to you).

Sometimes accidents happen, sometimes coincidences hapen, but sometimes be ready if things aren't what they appear. Attackers take advantage of victims assuming, ignoring, or believing what they hope is happening.
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Old 10-17-2012, 14:21   #239
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Yes the posts are a bit old, but I really don't understand why people are claiming the OP over-reacted, and that she should've used common sense. SHE DID USE COMMON SENSE. She listened to her instincts, and she absolutely did the right thing. I do not see how she could have done any better than what she did. I think everything she did was spot on. If you feel uncomfortable for any reason, don't do stupid things that make you feel even more uncomfortable.

She didn't feel comfortable leaving the car, so common sense would tell you to remain in the vehicle, which she did. And yet a few people are making it seem like common sense would dictate you leave the vehicle, even though you're not comfortable doing so. Which I really think is pretty damn stupid.

OP did the exact right thing. Stay in the vehicle, call the cops, let the insurance companies handle it. Who cares how much damage is done? It's not like you can fix it right there on the side of the road, so there's no use worrying about it. Stay in the car, especially if the other person is very insistent that you get out of your vehicle, even more so since the guy had his dominant hand in his pocket. Call the cops, and wait for them to arrive and sort it out, it's what they're paid for, let them deal with it.

The fact that she did the right thing is proven even more so by the fact that the guy fled after being informed that the police were called.
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Old 04-06-2013, 08:15   #240
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You most certainly did NOT over react. I would have done the same thing, given the circumstances. NEVER allow control of the situation to shift to the other person. The fact that he wanted you out of the car so badly, is a clear sign that he wanted you to be exposed. How he reacted when you told him to back away, hand in pocket, and freaking out when you informed him you called the police, confirm that you did the right thing.

Situational awareness is not something to be ashamed of. If something does not seem right, go with your gut - it may be a perfectly legit situation, but why take the risk?

My husband told me how he, his cousin and his uncle were in NY years ago - all on their bikes. His uncle is a former Seal, and always carries. A group of sketchy guys started walking towards them as they were stopped in heavy traffic. These guys had been watching the bikes all the way down the street, waiting for a chance to approach them. There was no reason for them to be walking diagonally across the street, weaving through stopped cars. Hank (the uncle) realized something was odd, so he opened his tank bag, removed his handgun and very casually rested it on his thigh. The first guy slinks around a car, sees the gun and freezes. He then signaled to the other guys in the group to turn around. No incident, everyone got home safe. Now, I think Hank did the right thing. It could have been perfectly innocent, but regardless - he felt threatened, and reacted properly. The simple act of showing the gun was enough to make the group think twice about targeting them.

You have to use YOUR judgement. Nobody else is there to protect you.
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Old 04-24-2013, 11:53   #241
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There was a serial killer in Philadelphia in the late 90's who would use the accident ruse to abduct his victims. He would use a honda civic that belonged to his first victim (who went missing). He kept it in a garage and only took it out when he was looking for victims. He has several unsuccessful attempts where the girl refused to pull over. (One of them was my girlfriend at the time, who was able to get a partial plate before he ran).

His name was Arthur Bomar. He was eventually caught after his fat ass got stuck while he was trying to climb through a window of a girl he was stalking.
One of his victims was Aimee Willard, a star lacrosse player at her college. Now I don't know much about lacrosse, but it seems to me that you have to be pretty physically fit to be a "star lacrosse player". Yet she was overpowered by Bomar. . . There is a reason why guns were called equalizers. .
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Old 04-24-2013, 17:47   #242
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One of his victims was Aimee Willard, a star lacrosse player at her college. Now I don't know much about lacrosse, but it seems to me that you have to be pretty physically fit to be a "star lacrosse player". Yet she was overpowered by Bomar. . . There is a reason why guns were called equalizers. .
I remember her. If I remember correctly, she was hit from behind on the Blue Route (I476) and they found her car empty and running on the side of the road. They found her body in North Philly.

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Old 10-14-2013, 15:55   #243
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My wife went to JAIL this morning.................mainly because of this thread.

NO, she didn't get put IN jail, the jail is where you have to be fingerprinted for your CC permit. She was fingerprinted and then we got all her documents ready for the mail tomorrow.

Great thread and it should awaken a few of you to what could happen, and it could! Stay alert!
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Old 10-19-2013, 20:33   #244
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If this thread doesn't wake someone up, they deserve the consequences...

But I'm sure it won't faze hundreds.

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Old 10-20-2013, 07:51   #245
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If this thread doesn't wake someone up, they deserve the consequences...

But I'm sure it won't faze hundreds.

Gray_Rider
But nothing like this could ever happen to me.......


Or so many people seem to think. Good thing MK wasn't living in that fairy tale that day.
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:07   #246
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I was rear-ended once, in stop and go traffic on a busy road. Low speed impact, but it was surprising nonetheless when it was not expected. I wasn't hurt or anything, from the rear view mirror, I saw the guy who hit me was already out of his car, and looking at my bumper. I got out to look at the damage. Car was fine, just a crack and couple scratches. He apologized profusely, asked me if I was hurt, and gave me his license and insurance card. We exchanged phone number as well, after which we both drove off. The next day, I called my insurance company and his to file a claim. Car was fixed by the end of the following week. No big deal, life goes on. It was no more nuisance than having to pick up an acquaintance from the airport.

I am in the minority to think that you over-reacted. If this accident happened in a secluded part of the town, late at night, without many people around, then you were spot on to do what you did. But what do you think he was going to do, in the middle of the day, with many cars/people around, having no accomplice? What if you shot him, and found out later that he was just a regular guy, wife and a couple of kids, elderly parents, etc... Could you live with yourself?
I Googled "Woman raped in subway" and got a few stories with varying years, including one from 4 days ago, about rapes in the New York Subway system. Middle of the day, people around, yet these women still got raped. The worst part is that New York has made it near impossible for women to carry guns to protect themselves. Sure tasers and pepper spray are probably still legal, but tasers have a one shot hit/miss, and pepper spray can be ineffective on an aggressive attacker. If police have to keep up the fight after being pepper sprayed to successfully subdue the suspect, pepper spray becomes much more ineffective to a suspect with a high tolerance for pepper spray.
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Old 01-17-2014, 03:25   #247
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Alright, stun guns and electronic "weapons" are illegal in all parts of New York, according to handgunlaw.us. So self defense sprays are the only thing allowed in New York City, and only if the purchaser fills out a registration form and does not buy more than two self defense sprays at one time. I have read one story from Massad Ayoob on his Gun Digest Book of Concealed Carry First Edition how a rapist killed two women after raping them because one of them sprayed him with a "Mace like substance."

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