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Old 03-16-2014, 17:58   #1
nickE10mm
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my first pound of Accurate #9....

While perusing the shelves at the local gun range today I came across a powder I've been wanting to try for a LONG while but, for various reasons, have never gotten around to trying: Accurate #9.

The problem is, until we get moved into our new place, I won't be able to do any loading. I've read and re-read EVERY sticky in this forum and have some good ideas, but I thought I'd post a question for you all who have used this powder in the 10mm.

What are you guys' favorite loads and any data you have for those loads? I'm most interested in 180-220gr loads but will take any data you have. I shoot both cast and jacketed loads often. Data for stock (G20) barrels and aftermarket (stock AND 6"+) data is good to know.

I'm thinking I'll be using this powder for some .44 mag loading, too, however I bought this powder for top-end 10mm loads using heavy bullets.

Any favorite loads, guys? Accuracy? Velocity?

Thanks in advance!
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:45   #2
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Alrighty! I have a fair amount of data logged on my notebook at home. On my phone at the moment so I'll fill in the details tonight for G20 loads:

155, 180, 200 XTP

200 DT and BT WFNGC

165 GDHP

180 PowerBond (range fodder)

No 6" data. Let me know what you are interested in and i can fill in the blanks. A lot if these are in the Accurate Powder sticky.
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Old 03-17-2014, 09:50   #3
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Cool!

Since you don't have any 6" data then G20 stock bbl data will be most useful. And even though I don't have any bullets right now (hard to find XTPs and been busy), all I have is plated 180gr HP's (Rainier). Eventually I'll be using 180/200gr XTP as well as 200gr WFNGC and possibly some 180gr cast RNFP.

Anyways, heavy jacketed and cast data in stock bbl is best data.

Also, primers, cases, case expansion, etc.

Thanks Taterhead and no rush. As I said I have no way to actually load any for a few weeks anyways.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:46   #4
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I think you will find the 6" barrel will make #9 shine in 10mm.


Using stock length barrels in my G20, G29's and my 1911 Gov't with new Starline, WLP, 180gr PD FMJ/FP, all at 1.256":


G20:


14.4gr - 1200fps average
14.7gr - 1210fps average
14.9gr - 1225fps average


G29:


14.4gr - 1140fps average
14.7gr - 1156fps average
14.9gr - 1175fps average


1911 5":


14.4gr - 1262 - Average *best accuracy load


I expect Taterhead's data will be a little above these numbers as I think we have already established his barrel is a little faster or my chrono is a little slow.


The very best accuracy I have seen with AA #9 and 180gr jacketed is mid 14gr range. I have been using VV-N105 for my SD loads, but am going to switch back to #9 in the mid 14's when those are exhausted.


For 44RM, #9 is my favorite powder. You can step on the gas and take it up near H110 velocity and yet it is really well behaved when downloaded. I have downloaded it as low as 1000fps using 240gr EK LSWC's in my Mdl 29.


Oh, and it meters like water, even more to love.


Good luck.
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Old 03-17-2014, 11:51   #5
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Nice, Wee....

Have you (or anyone) noticed any difference when using a heavier crimp, sayyy... a FULL TURN on the crimp die as opposed to half?

Also, have you noticed a LARGE benefit with AA9 using longer barrels? With the slow burn of this powder it seems that a longer barrel would give a substantial benefit to velocity with heavier bullets.
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Old 03-17-2014, 14:19   #6
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On the 10mm, I never crimp past just taking the bell out. On rimless calibers more crimp actually ends up removing neck tension, not enhancing it.


On 44RM, I do use a firm roll crimp on the more stout loads, but that is as much to keep the bullet from walking out under recoil, than anything I see beneficial power burn wise.


The longer barrel will help a lot with #9. I think barrel length is the limiting factor with #9 and stock length barrels, at least, that has been my experience.


For me, the only downside to #9 is it is a little slow for 10mm, but everything else is so positive, I think it will be my go to powder going forward.


Have fun.
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Old 03-17-2014, 15:35   #7
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#9 rocks in the 10. data from my 20c is a little slow, lost some velocity from the porting.

Best groups were from 13.0g, 1/2 diameter, with 1150fps
13.4 was a little hotter at 1190fps average

Stock G20c, 180g xtreme plated RN bullets, WLP primers, range brass.

I didnt experience any glock smiles or flattened primers. All of the brass was fine at my max load of 13.4

Ive also tried longshot and Imr SR4756. Both were acceptable but 4756 is harder to measure being that the powder is large flakes. My next project is some 800x

#9 in the 44 is also superb. 240g xtreme RN, WLP primers, starline brass
18.gr of #9 produced 1260fps average from a Ruger Vaquero 6"

BTW, #9 measures perfectly. "like sand through the hour glass".. love that black desert sand powder.

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Old 03-17-2014, 20:58   #8
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I just did some pull downs and the powder I suspect is AA #9 but in the picture you can see it has some flattened balls in the mix...the #9 I have is all tiny spherical beads.
WHAT WAS IN THE PULL DOWN
10mm Reloading Forum

HERE IS WHAT MY OLDER AA #9 LOOKS LIKE
10mm Reloading Forum

Would you guys care to look at your #9 and see if it has the flattened balls as shown in the first picture, since Western Powders took over the powder could have a slightly different appearance...
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Old 03-17-2014, 22:01   #9
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Hard to tell with different lighting and scale, but my guess would be WSF for the top one. If there were some goldish looking balls and more variation in size, maybe Longshot.

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Old 03-17-2014, 22:13   #10
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this is out of my new can.
10mm Reloading Forum

up close
10mm Reloading Forum

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Old 03-17-2014, 22:29   #11
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Shadow, the A9 that you have with the micro-spheres is very likely the lots that used to be produced in Belgium. The flattened spherical shape is the stuff now produced in USA. I have found the newer lots to be a touch more dense, less temp sensitive, and a bit more velocity. A tad dirtier though. Overall, slightly better.


The pull-down powder does look like newer A9.


It looks identical to A7, so the velocity vs. charge weight would easily help to discern between the two (assume that the powder we're looking at is indeed an Accurate powder).

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Old 03-17-2014, 22:54   #12
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Nick, like Willy said, the crimp die isn't going to have an affect on bullet pull except to potentially diminish it when overdone. I iron out the bell. No further.


I reviewed the Accurate sticky and I have pretty in-depth write-ups there for:


Beartooth and Double Tap 200 gr WFNGC hardcasts (Post #93)


200 gr XTP (post # 76)


155 gr XTP (post #72)


Here is some data for the 180 gr XTP. Hdy Max = 14.9. Accurate Max = 13.5


G20 gen 3. Stock barrel and RSA. Temps 65F:


These were tested with the Belgian lots of A9.


Brass: Starline
Primer: CC300
COL: 1.255"


13.3 gr - 1130 fps
13.5 gr - 1164 fps
13.7 gr - 1202 fps
13.9 gr - 1216 fps
14.1 gr - 1226 fps


Absolutely no indications of pressure issues. I would feel comfortable working up, but groups were outstanding at 14.1 and plenty of steam. I'll likely re-do workups with the USA lots of A9 at some point.


It be really curious how a full case of A9 works in your 6" Fusion boiler room.
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Old 03-18-2014, 08:08   #13
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Nochromeguns, thanks very much for the pictures, that helps me confirm my thoughts with the newer lots of Accurate Arms #9, since Western Powders had taken the product line. I actually added your pictures to my data base of powder pictures for future reference.

Taterhead writes;
Quote:
Shadow, the A9 that you have with the micro-spheres is very likely the lots that used to be produced in Belgium. The flattened spherical shape is the stuff now produced in USA. I have found the newer lots to be a touch more dense, less temp sensitive, and a bit more velocity. A tad dirtier though. Overall, slightly better.

The pull-down powder does look like newer A9.

It looks identical to A7, so the velocity vs. charge weight would easily help to discern between the two (assume that the powder we're looking at is indeed an Accurate powder).
Thanks for the notations, The charge weights and velocity claims suggested AA#9 and I believe we talked about the powder having changed in appearance.

BTW, I just finished doing 3 10mm Pull-Downs from Reed's Ammo, that info can be found here; http://10mm-firearms.com/factory-10m.../msg28621/#new

Pretty much textbook loads!
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:11   #14
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This has been a real eye opener.

The #9 I have been loading is obviously the older version.

Looking at the new powder in the pictures, I have to conclude it is a completely different powder. I am having a really hard time getting my head around the notion these two powders will have the exact same burn characteristics.

Looks like I will be re-running all my load ladders for #9 (as soon as I can find some on the shelves) and quit posting results from a powder people can't buy anymore.

Thanks for bringing this up Shadow, worth the price of admission wading through a months worth of "what color should I paint my new gun?" threads.
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:56   #15
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Wow, lot has happened since I last visited this thread...

Here is the Accurate I bought. Looks like the new stuff and quite like AA7 that I had before. Smells the same, too. Ahhhh!

10mm Reloading Forum

Here are photos of the powder

10mm Reloading Forum
10mm Reloading Forum

I haven't ever used a taper crimp die to do anything other than "take out the flare" but I thought it might help. Guess not.

I'm real anxious to try out a full caseload of AA9 in a 6" fully supported barrel. I'll be doing my own workups so we have a few more data points.

Thanks guys for the data rehash... It helps a lot!!
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Old 03-18-2014, 09:59   #16
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Fwiw, the AA9 I found at Bullseye here in town was accompanied by about 5-6 more lbs of AA9 on the shelf. They didn't hardly have any other powders... Lol. Strange.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:14   #17
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I am glad to see people taking notice, as we study these changes and these internet forums are a valuable tool, that can help us all with what's going on.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:41   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WeeWilly View Post
I expect Taterhead's data will be a little above these numbers as I think we have already established his barrel is a little faster or my chrono is a little slow.

What altitude are you both at? I see quite a bit higher velocities for guys in the mountains versus guys in the lower SE of the US.... air is thinner and less dense up high, therefore, less drag. Have you taken that into consideration for the noted velocity differences?

Thanks!
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:55   #19
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I hear you Nick, if I were any closer to sea level I'd be getting wet!

As it is the air is heavy with humidity down here....
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:05   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nickE10mm View Post
What altitude are you both at? I see quite a bit higher velocities for guys in the mountains versus guys in the lower SE of the US.... air is thinner and less dense up high, therefore, less drag. Have you taken that into consideration for the noted velocity differences?

Thanks!

I am at sea level, in fact, if I walk 100 yards due west, after a fall that will probably kill me, my body will be floating in the Pacific Ocean.

I don't think the altitude accounts for the whole difference that I am seeing between Taterhead's numbers and mine as TDC also has higher numbers.

I am pretty convinced it is my chronograph. It just seems to be reading consistently a little slow.

The good news is I know it isn't my scale as the check weights keep things jake there.

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