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Old 03-13-2014, 19:47   #61
railfancwb
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This is how I see it also. There's nothing sacred about human life. We come and go like flies. Many want to think of human life, especially their own, as something special, but it's not.
Most human lives are special to their owners...not necessarily to anyone else.


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Old 03-13-2014, 20:00   #62
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But the person can be compensated. $100,000 a year for each year of incarceration will not "bring those years back," but it would be fair compensation for a wrongful conviction.
That's all it would take for you to call it fair compensation?

I sure wouldn't give up 20 years of my life for a lousy $2M.
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Old 03-14-2014, 07:38   #63
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That's all it would take for you to call it fair compensation?

I sure wouldn't give up 20 years of my life for a lousy $2M.
My employer was paying me double that, plus I got weekends off and dental.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:13   #64
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I personally think there should think all attempted murder charges should all be view as murder, considering they still had the frame of mind to kill someone and the only difference is they did finish it. They also should get the death penalty.
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Old 03-14-2014, 08:40   #65
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I think it is a very valid point. Everybody is somebodies kid. Many are brothers and some are fathers. Every execution is personal to someone or some group of people. And the idea of government wrongly killing people is horrific to most normal people.
No, it is not. If it was as "horrific to most normal people" as it is to you, we'd simply repeal our death penalty statutes, enacted by poiliticians who only keep their jobs through the support of the majority. Just because it's your opinion, that doesn't mean most people agree with you or that people who do not are abnormal.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:03   #66
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Because, you know, we only kill people who are unlikely to be valuable: Poor people, black people, a few hispanics.

Even if we get a few wrong, whats the harm?
If we get it wrong and kill anybody, there is no significant harm, in the big picture. Where I live, most of death row is white and male. Beyond that, I don't feel sorry for a whole group because, being overrepresented among criminals, they are also overrepresented among people being punished for crimes.

In addition, most of the goals of criminal justice are accomplished even where we execute the wrong person, as long as we all think it was the right person. The fundamental reasons we punish criminals are retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, and incapacitation. Rehabilitation is not a goal of capital punishment. That leaves retribution, deterrence, and incapacitation (prevention). Incapacitation fails if we don't get the right criminal, but both deterrence and retribution are, for all practical purposes, accomplished by executing the wrong person that we believe is guilty.
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Old 03-14-2014, 09:12   #67
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That response made absolutely no sense.

My position as anti-death penalty is this: government is always trying to expand its power. We must draw the line of our government's power over the individual somewhere, and make it a line that can never be crossed. Drawing that line in front of a person's life, regardless of their actions, is a good place to start.
I disagree. Punishing people for crime is one of the most fundamental reasons we have government. If government can punish I see no reason at all that the punishment can't include death. In fact, I think death should be the punishment for a lot more crimes, as it used to be.
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Old 03-14-2014, 11:03   #68
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If we get it wrong and kill anybody, there is no significant harm, in the big picture.

In addition, most of the goals of criminal justice are accomplished even where we execute the wrong person, as long as we all think it was the right person.
The sociopath is epic here.


Just remember that if someone is ever accidentally sticking that needle in YOUR arm. Some case of mistaken ID lands you on death row but youre ok w that. Is the fried chicken or salisbury steak you get for your last meal all the compensation you'll need?

The last mile.

Ok Bren, lets go. Its time.

CLANK

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Justice is never served when the wrong person is executed. I have nothing against the death penalty except for mistaken ID. I agree with the SCOTUS justice who said better for ten guilty men go free than convict the wrong one. The kill em all and let God sort it out is the kind of mob justice mentality that represents the opposite of an ordered society.
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Old 03-14-2014, 12:15   #69
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I still support the death penalty, even though it is very difficult for me to do so.

You see, I served on a jury that condemned a man to death. Justice was served, but it is something I have lived with for nearly 40 years now. Knowing that I was instrumental in the taking of a human life is a heavy burden, but I must bear it. The system isn't perfect, but it is the best we have.

It is very easy to advocate for the death penalty if you have never taken a human life, or if you have never been a part of the system that has. Please understand that for each life taken, twelve of us must live with the taking every remaining day of our lives.

It still must be done, but it should not be taken lightly. Pray for those of us who must serve.

You are looking at it wrong

You should have pride that you had the fortitude to give
victims justice and closure
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Old 03-14-2014, 20:54   #70
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No, it is not. If it was as "horrific to most normal people" as it is to you, we'd simply repeal our death penalty statutes, enacted by poiliticians who only keep their jobs through the support of the majority. Just because it's your opinion, that doesn't mean most people agree with you or that people who do not are abnormal.
No, most people who support the death penalty convince themselves to believe that we never ever execute innocent people. Among DP supporters, I give you credit for being honest enough to admit that we have probably killed a few innocent people.
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Old 03-14-2014, 21:02   #71
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If we get it wrong and kill anybody, there is no significant harm, in the big picture. Where I live, most of death row is white and male. Beyond that, I don't feel sorry for a whole group because, being overrepresented among criminals, they are also overrepresented among people being punished for crimes.

In addition, most of the goals of criminal justice are accomplished even where we execute the wrong person, as long as we all think it was the right person. The fundamental reasons we punish criminals are retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, and incapacitation. Rehabilitation is not a goal of capital punishment. That leaves retribution, deterrence, and incapacitation (prevention). Incapacitation fails if we don't get the right criminal, but both deterrence and retribution are, for all practical purposes, accomplished by executing the wrong person that we believe is guilty.
You are truly a sick man.

Yes, if the DP has any deterrent effect, which most studies show it doesn't, then blaming an innocent person and then murdering him for a crime he didn't commit, may deter others. This is the way people like Pol Pot, Stalin and the Kim family keep their population under control. Glad you approve.

Retribution is a fail. Retribution means reciprocal punishment. If you kick some guys ass, then he goes home and beats his wife because he somehow blames her, that is not retribution, even if he believes it. That is just him being a criminal.

Incapacitation, as you admit, is another fail. If you murder an innocent person, and you just have a free criminal that you are no longer looking for, and the state and its servants have become criminals themselves.

At best you are 1 out of 4. Hell, maybe cops should just randomly kill a person on the street every so often. It would deter crime if people were more frightened of the police.

Have you ever done that? Ever thought of it?
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Old 03-15-2014, 00:07   #72
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If we get it wrong and kill anybody, there is no significant harm, in the big picture. Where I live, most of death row is white and male. Beyond that, I don't feel sorry for a whole group because, being overrepresented among criminals, they are also overrepresented among people being punished for crimes.

In addition, most of the goals of criminal justice are accomplished even where we execute the wrong person, as long as we all think it was the right person. The fundamental reasons we punish criminals are retribution, deterrence, rehabilitation, and incapacitation. Rehabilitation is not a goal of capital punishment. That leaves retribution, deterrence, and incapacitation (prevention). Incapacitation fails if we don't get the right criminal, but both deterrence and retribution are, for all practical purposes, accomplished by executing the wrong person that we believe is guilty.
We don't often see eye to eye Bren, but I have to say I agree with you. The only point of capital punishment is to have an ultimate sanction. Once somebody has been sentenced to life without parole, what reason is there for him to not kill someone in prison? The death penalty is the only thing left.

From a deterrence case it doesn't really matter if we killed the right person just so long as people believe it will be administered when justified. Sucks for the guy unjustly condemned, but that doesn't mean it didn't serve its purpose.

Biggest drawback to how we do capitol punishment in the USA in my opinion is that the 10 - 20 year delay in carrying it out robs it of a lot of its deterrence value. China has a different standard, immediate execution can mean 6 days. It usually doesn't happen that fast, but technical it could.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:19   #73
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Heck I'd be hiring a helicopter and breaking him out of jail. But that's just me.
A helicopter will only get you killed, no chance of getting an xrow inmate out.
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Old 03-15-2014, 02:22   #74
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You are truly a sick man.

Yes, if the DP has any deterrent effect, which most studies show it doesn't, then blaming an innocent person and then murdering him for a crime he didn't commit, may deter others. This is the way people like Pol Pot, Stalin and the Kim family keep their population under control. Glad you approve.

Retribution is a fail. Retribution means reciprocal punishment. If you kick some guys ass, then he goes home and beats his wife because he somehow blames her, that is not retribution, even if he believes it. That is just him being a criminal.

Incapacitation, as you admit, is another fail. If you murder an innocent person, and you just have a free criminal that you are no longer looking for, and the state and its servants have become criminals themselves.

At best you are 1 out of 4. Hell, maybe cops should just randomly kill a person on the street every so often. It would deter crime if people were more frightened of the police.

Have you ever done that? Ever thought of it?
You are talking some crazyness for calling someone sick.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:46   #75
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Which is the point I made earlier - there is a big difference between self-interest in not wanting to be killed or not wanting a family member killed, guilty or not, and being objectively opposed to capital punishment. "I don't want to be executed" is not an argument against capital punishment.
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:51   #76
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No, most people who support the death penalty convince themselves to believe that we never ever execute innocent people. Among DP supporters, I give you credit for being honest enough to admit that we have probably killed a few innocent people.
How would you know? You and your anti-death penalty friends on the left are not "most people who support the death penalty" and I doubt many people who do are friends of yours in the real world. Pretty much everybody I know on remotely friendly terms supports the death penalty and, being the people who actually litigate it in court and carry out the executions, we know very well the flaws uit may have and those that are left-wing fiction (like your arguments about lack of deterrence and your misunderstanding of retribution, above).
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Old 03-15-2014, 03:53   #77
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No, most people who support the death penalty convince themselves to believe that we never ever execute innocent people. Among DP supporters, I give you credit for being honest enough to admit that we have probably killed a few innocent people.
So what? Sob sisters like yourself making sure that scum like Kenneth McDuff, Robert Alton Harris, Edmund Kemper, Richard A. Davis, Arthur Shawcross, Carl Bowles et al are either paroled or given a day pass* have contributed to 100s or 1000s more additional murders and rapes than death penalty proponents are responsible for. But you care and that is what counts.

Here is one list of scum that were released and re confirmed their true nature for the doubters. http://www.wesleylowe.com/repoff.html

*After all why would anyone think a guy like Carl Bowles or Willie Horton would lie when giving a pinky promise to return to prison?
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Old 03-15-2014, 04:51   #78
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I disagree. Punishing people for crime is one of the most fundamental reasons we have government. If government can punish I see no reason at all that the punishment can't include death. In fact, I think death should be the punishment for a lot more crimes, as it used to be.
I think the punishment for wrongful conviction resulting in death should be death to those that were involved in the prosecution (i.e. prosecutor and judge and jury).

This would accomplish two things: retribution (ie. an eye for eye) and deterrence. It would deter future legal errors as the prosecution, judge and jury would take their prosecutions more seriously.

I think that any incorrect prosecution resulting in less than death should be a day for day prison sentence for those that prosecuted.
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Old 03-15-2014, 11:08   #79
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A helicopter will only get you killed, no chance of getting an xrow inmate out.
Just need to hire the right helicopter.

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Old 03-15-2014, 11:15   #80
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I think the punishment for wrongful conviction resulting in death should be death to those that were involved in the prosecution (i.e. prosecutor and judge and jury).

This would accomplish two things: retribution (ie. an eye for eye) and deterrence. It would deter future legal errors as the prosecution, judge and jury would take their prosecutions more seriously.

I think that any incorrect prosecution resulting in less than death should be a day for day prison sentence for those that prosecuted.
Better still is to require strong circumstantial evidence for all death penalty cases. If all the police have is a confession (that was recanted) and eye witness testimony, then the death penalty should be off the table. Both of these are far too unreliable to be absolutely certain we have the right person.

We have an obligation to be certain beyond a shred of doubt before we execute someone.
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