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Old 03-11-2014, 20:44   #21
Bren
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What if you helped kill an innocent person? Not saying you did, just curious how you would feel after finding out.


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So? I work in the legal system. I know and accept that innocent people can be convicted and executed. No legal system is perfect. Not a problem. If the guy I'm talking about had been innocent...it would make the story more interesting to tell, but that's all.

I honestly cannot comprehend the thinking of people who get al teary eyed over this stuff. The best comparison I can give is, try to put yourself in the mind of those people who amputate body parts for a sexual thrill - that's about how close I can come to understanding the mind of a death penalty opponent.

Personally, if I was wrongly convicted, I'd much rather be sentenced to death than life.
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Old 03-11-2014, 21:03   #22
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Originally Posted by Jade Falcon View Post
It also made me think about something. Rather: it put something in perspective for me. And that is this: as much as I support the Death Penalty, I also have compassion and empathy for the Condemned. And the show above just reaffirmed that for me. The Condemned are people too. Short of the few actual Psychopaths who get executed, many of these people have feelings; they have remorse; families and children. They have (or had) lives. Surely that can't be something that we can all just write off.


Sure we can. They made the choices that lead them down that road.

If they valued human life, they wouldn't be facing a death penalty.
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Old 03-11-2014, 21:06   #23
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Originally Posted by uhlawpup View Post

It is very easy to advocate for the death penalty if you have never taken a human life, or if you have never been a part of the system that has. Please understand that for each life taken, twelve of us must live with the taking every remaining day of our lives.
You didn't "take a human life"

You voted, that someone should die, for his crimes.
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Old 03-11-2014, 22:01   #24
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No one on a jury has "killed" any one. You heard what youbelieved to be the factsand rendered a guilty verdict. The court system and the judge followed that by issuing and then carrying out the order. The convicted put them selves in that position. Most if not all sit on death row for 15-20 years while filing appeal after appeal.

That is quite different then actually pulling the trigger of a gun.
While that person may have deserved it also, you physically took their life.

I have no sympathy for most inmates. With the way evidence is collected today its aweful hard to deny something when they have your DNA.
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Old 03-12-2014, 06:27   #25
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
So? I work in the legal system. I know and accept that innocent people can be convicted and executed. No legal system is perfect. Not a problem. If the guy I'm talking about had been innocent...it would make the story more interesting to tell, but that's all.
So if one of your kids was facing the death penalty from a wrongful conviction, I don't suppose they could expect much help from dear old dad, huh? "Hey, not a problem, son! These things happen, our system isn't perfect, but you know what? Your story will be just THAT more interesting!!"

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Old 03-12-2014, 06:58   #26
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I want to thank everyone for taking the time to respond to this thread and give the video a viewing or two. The purpose I had in starting this thread was to get people thinking about a very serious topic, and to open a thoughtful and honest discussion.

In May of last year, I witnessed a double-fatality car accident which occurred 50 feet from my doorstep on a 2-lane neighborhood street. The driver was killed instantly, and the passenger died the next day in the hospital. Alcohol was a factor.

That incident: checking the driver's pulse, and watching the entire scene until the Coroner took the woman away in a body-bag, gave me alot to think about. It made me reevaluate my position on death and life in general. I think that such an incident would have such an effect on anyone here. It made me realize how much I love life; how much I cherish it.

It also made me think about something. Rather: it put something in perspective for me. And that is this: as much as I support the Death Penalty, I also have compassion and empathy for the Condemned. And the show above just reaffirmed that for me. The Condemned are people too. Short of the few actual Psychopaths who get executed, many of these people have feelings; they have remorse; families and children. They have (or had) lives. Surely that can't be something that we can all just write off.

So I agree with what uhlawpup said: such a matter as the Death Penalty should never be taken lightly. We should value all human life, regardless of what mistakes or crimes they've made. And while yes: such people have committed atrocious acts of crime beyond our immediate comprehension, they are still people; human beings. That should give us all food for thought.

I think that China had the right idea with this show.
I vehemently disagree.

I'm aware that my earlier opinions may sound cynical to you since you had an epiphany after your experience but what you're failing to comprehend is that experiences similar to yours happen quite often and those instances don't change some simple truths. Everybody dies, yes it sucks and in the majority of instances it's sad but sometimes, it's a necessity.

Here's an example...

One of the deaths I was involved with was a woman who had her throat cut by the father of her children and this was done in front of her children. Two children had to watch their father slice there mother's throat. Of course she died, rendering them parentless. They had to walk through their mother's blood to run to a neighbors house.

Had the opportunity presented itself, I would have taken that man's life and experienced no remorse whatsoever.

Take this man for example...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...cal&id=9442813

He tortured and sexually abused a four year old for four days, causing severe injuries that led to her death.

His life has no value. He offers no benefit to society and he doesn't deserve compassion or mercy. He lost those privileges when he decided to torture a four year old. He deserves nothing less than death.

Life is simple when we look at things from one side. Look at things from another side and you may think differently. If that had been your little girl that was tortured to death would you be talking about dignity and the value of his life?
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Old 03-12-2014, 07:26   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
So? I work in the legal system. I know and accept that innocent people can be convicted and executed. No legal system is perfect. Not a problem. If the guy I'm talking about had been innocent...it would make the story more interesting to tell, but that's all.

I honestly cannot comprehend the thinking of people who get al teary eyed over this stuff. The best comparison I can give is, try to put yourself in the mind of those people who amputate body parts for a sexual thrill - that's about how close I can come to understanding the mind of a death penalty opponent.

Personally, if I was wrongly convicted, I'd much rather be sentenced to death than life.
If you read my earlier post on the subject in this thread, I am not completely anti death penalty or completely for it. However we have a real problem with convicting innocent people in this country, and there is a lot of a lack of common sense among both sides of the law.

If someone is 100% guilty of such an act that 12 people and the judge think he/she should be executed for, Then I really cannot argue against it without being a hypocrite.

However anything other than 100% certainty and beyond any doubt, scares me because it is such a permanent punishment.

In other words, if we are killing people for certain crimes, we damn well better make sure they committed the crime before we kill them.





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Old 03-12-2014, 07:43   #28
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However we have a real problem with convicting innocent people in this country,
Bullsheet!

As an old cop told me, "Some of these characters might have done hundreds of crimes that we couldn't catch them for, but when we get them convicted for murder with all the crap we have to go through, you can bet that they're guilty as hell."
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:44   #29
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So if one of your kids was facing the death penalty from a wrongful conviction, I don't suppose they could expect much help from dear old dad, huh? "Hey, not a problem, son! These things happen, our system isn't perfect, but you know what? Your story will be just THAT more interesting!!"

You are changing an objective argument about the system into a subjective argument about my self-interest. For instance, I would not want to be wrongfully executed, but only because it's me, not because I think that's a major problem with the system.

An argument about my objective opinion on capital punishment and whether I would want me or my family to be killed (that or any other way) are entirely unrelated. Compare apples to apples if you want to make a valid argument.
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Old 03-12-2014, 10:46   #30
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If you read my earlier post on the subject in this thread, I am not completely anti death penalty or completely for it. However we have a real problem with convicting innocent people in this country, and there is a lot of a lack of common sense among both sides of the law.

If someone is 100% guilty of such an act that 12 people and the judge think he/she should be executed for, Then I really cannot argue against it without being a hypocrite.

However anything other than 100% certainty and beyond any doubt, scares me because it is such a permanent punishment.

In other words, if we are killing people for certain crimes, we damn well better make sure they committed the crime before we kill them.





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There is no 100% certainty in law or anything else people do. Not a problem to me. In fact, you may find a case where an innocent person was executed, but I still doubt you could find one where executing the innocent person did more harm than good.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:11   #31
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So if one of your kids was facing the death penalty from a wrongful conviction, I don't suppose they could expect much help from dear old dad, huh? "Hey, not a problem, son! These things happen, our system isn't perfect, but you know what? Your story will be just THAT more interesting!!"

This is an appeal to emotion argument and really a non-engagement in the discussion, which has been pretty interesting thus far.
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Old 03-12-2014, 11:14   #32
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I vehemently disagree.


Take this man for example...

http://abclocal.go.com/wtvd/story?se...cal&id=9442813

He tortured and sexually abused a four year old for four days, causing severe injuries that led to her death.

His life has no value. He offers no benefit to society and he doesn't deserve compassion or mercy. He lost those privileges when he decided to torture a four year old. He deserves nothing less than death.

Life is simple when we look at things from one side. Look at things from another side and you may think differently. If that had been your little girl that was tortured to death would you be talking about dignity and the value of his life?


I personally think death is a to lenient and civilized penalty for crimes of that sort.
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Old 03-12-2014, 15:46   #33
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...The Condemned are people too. Short of the few actual Psychopaths who get executed, many of these people have feelings; they have remorse; families and children. They have (or had) lives. Surely that can't be something that we can all just write off....
I prefer not to think of it as the jury writing off their lives or their families. I prefer to think that the convicted person wrote their own life off when they decided to commit the crime. This is assuming, of course, that the jury convicted the right guy.

In other words, quit treating the convict like the victim. He or she is only a victim of the consequences of his or her own actions. It's not like they didn't know that what they were doing could effectively end their life (life in prison or death penalty).
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Old 03-12-2014, 16:35   #34
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Originally Posted by Bren View Post
There is no 100% certainty in law or anything else people do. Not a problem to me. In fact, you may find a case where an innocent person was executed, but I still doubt you could find one where executing the innocent person did more harm than good.
I personally find that to be a huge problem. And I bet the family would too.


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Old 03-12-2014, 16:49   #35
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Bullsheet!

As an old cop told me, "Some of these characters might have done hundreds of crimes that we couldn't catch them for, but when we get them convicted for murder with all the crap we have to go through, you can bet that they're guilty as hell."
What exactly is the argument here?
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Old 03-12-2014, 17:17   #36
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You are changing an objective argument about the system into a subjective argument about my self-interest. For instance, I would not want to be wrongfully executed, but only because it's me, not because I think that's a major problem with the system.

An argument about my objective opinion on capital punishment and whether I would want me or my family to be killed (that or any other way) are entirely unrelated. Compare apples to apples if you want to make a valid argument.
I think it is a very valid point. Everybody is somebodies kid. Many are brothers and some are fathers. Every execution is personal to someone or some group of people. And the idea of government wrongly killing people is horrific to most normal people.
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Old 03-12-2014, 17:19   #37
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For those that think that inmates should be shot behind the courthouse after a guilty verdict:

Meet Glenn Ford.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/lou...nn-ford-freed/
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Old 03-12-2014, 17:41   #38
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There is no 100% certainty in law or anything else people do. Not a problem to me. In fact, you may find a case where an innocent person was executed, but I still doubt you could find one where executing the innocent person did more harm than good.
Because, you know, we only kill people who are unlikely to be valuable: Poor people, black people, a few hispanics.

Even if we get a few wrong, whats the harm?
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Old 03-12-2014, 18:19   #39
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Old 03-12-2014, 18:32   #40
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I wouldn't have a problem with it. I would actually like them to die the same death the victim did.








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For those that think that inmates should be shot behind the courthouse after a guilty verdict:

Meet Glenn Ford.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/11/us/lou...nn-ford-freed/
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