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Old 02-16-2014, 18:14   #61
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Too much!
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:18   #62
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What about businesses? Do they pay federal taxes? Wouldn't part of the money you spend with a business go towards taxes?
It is, of course, a gross simplification. But it's useful as a rule of thumb. Most of the money you spend with a business gets paid out as salary or payment for services and eventually gets taxed as someone's income in any case; only about 10% of the federal income taxes collected in the US are corporate income taxes.
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:51   #63
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50%

After fed, state, local, sales tax, property tax, gas tax, phone, hotel, capital gains, and who knows how many other 'fees' I'm near 50%. Wanna hear the worst part? You are too.

The surfs who were property off the king only paid 12%. You are a slave three times over. If you work, that is. God bless America.
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:34   #64
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Most working people describe themselves as middle class regardless of income. I believe the reason is that people generally associate with others of similar socioeconomic status. So they look around and think they're average.

When it comes to taxes the data are readily available. Your $50-$100,000 family of 4 really isn't paying much in terms of % of the tax burden.
Im pretty sure I'm not middle class. . Reason: Uncle don't subsidize S-word fo me! Lol

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After fed, state, local, sales tax, property tax, gas tax, phone, hotel, capital gains, and who knows how many other 'fees' I'm near 50%. Wanna hear the worst part? You are too.

The surfs who were property off the king only paid 12%. You are a slave three times over. If you work, that is. God bless America.
My favorite surf is Bode, but Spiccoli runs a close second.


I'm shocked at the CA tax code. I didn't believe it until then.

Unless you are deep in 6 figures, the tax isn't that bad. No wonder so many "regular" people can live in CA.

At $75k with 5 people, you would pay about $2,500 in Mass. F-word!
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:37   #65
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I'm still not seeing less than $3k federal.

Assume your deductions are 15k. Another 20k in exemptions. TI of $40k which is $5k in tax. Your TI has to be about $22k on that $75k. ??????

Edit

Block is wrong. Taxable income of $40,000 doesnt equate to $2300 of taxes due. Maybe it's a gimmick to use them. But the 15% bracket starts around $17,000. $20k+ at 15% is $3k right there.
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Last edited by Dennis in MA; 02-16-2014 at 19:44..
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Old 02-16-2014, 20:39   #66
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
I'm still not seeing less than $3k federal.

Assume your deductions are 15k. Another 20k in exemptions. TI of $40k which is $5k in tax. Your TI has to be about $22k on that $75k. ??????

Edit

Block is wrong. Taxable income of $40,000 doesnt equate to $2300 of taxes due. Maybe it's a gimmick to use them. But the 15% bracket starts around $17,000. $20k+ at 15% is $3k right there.
No way. Not in most cases.

Edit: misread your post
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Old 02-16-2014, 21:29   #67
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If you live in a household of two working adults (as many of us here do) and don't pay at least ~$35k of federal income taxes, someone else is paying your share.
We are paying our share, and the others, too.

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Old 02-16-2014, 21:48   #68
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If a person makes a Dollar, tax it Ten cents.

Then everyone will pay their share.



Anyhow, you ain't seen nothing yet until obamacare hits us full force.
I don't think anyone has a clue just how bad the cost of this ******* mess is going to be.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:06   #69
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This begs the question.......Why are people opposed to a flat percentage tax? No deductions for anything.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:43   #70
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This begs the question.......Why are people opposed to a flat percentage tax? No deductions for anything.
1) People are stupid and their 'leaders' have told them the flat tax is evil.

2) People are greedy, and the majority realize they would then pay MORE taxes.

3) Everyone who isn't stupid knows 10% is WAY too low of a figure to support the giant beast that our government has become. So when the 'real' numbers start getting discussed, people get STICKER SHOCK OMG.

What's funny, is they get this sticker shock of seeing 20-30% numbers -- but they don't realize they're already paying that much one way or the other. It's a giant shell game.

Some folks like to paint a picutre where the top 10% pay 90% of the taxes - but the whole thing is a scheme of redistribution so arguing those numbers is pointless.


The tax code and how it works in conjunction with the economy is something that grew into what it is today. There are hundreds, thousands, of variables that impact the economy and society. EIC make you angry? Me too, but the reality is that EIC allows the low end worker to work for less which in TURN saves a top 10% earner money. Does that top earner pay more taxes? Well, obviously, but they're also getting some benefit. There's hundreds of examples of distribution of both wealth and burdon.

The core of the problem is that no one person can wrap their mind around the entire thing and tell you truly what is going to happen when it's changed or what would be required (in terms of the rate) to make the change.

If they did a flat 10% tax, the government would simply have to shut-down almost all of it's services. Then they'd also have to deal with a lot of angry citizens. You see, right now they tax the crap out of the top 20 or so % of earners. If they start taxing EVERYONE, suddenly there's a lot more people who CARE about taxes. Then the 10% will be TOO MUCH, and people will decry the theivery of their earners by a wasteful government.

Basically, it'd make all liberal space-wasters turn into conservatives who give a flip about where their income is going -- because they'd actually have to pay something into the system in a way they can see.

Did I mention the 10% people keep talking about is WAY too low?
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:47   #71
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This begs the question.......Why are people opposed to a flat percentage tax? No deductions for anything.
Because it would simplify things. No one wants to take the plunge cause all they care about is how someone else may get a better deal. I think the biggest reason though is that it gives the government something to keep the people divided on. I.e. the poor think the rich are getting away with paying no taxes and the and the rich hate the poor for being a load on the system.

As long as the people are divided and fighting each other the .gov keeps taking and taking and taking. If we could all just stop bickering with each other about what letter is after the name and focus on the overall big picture then crap would start changing.

Last edited by roger123; 02-17-2014 at 06:48..
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:48   #72
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Why should citizens in a "free country" be required to produce a detailed accounting of their financials to the federal government each year? My closest friends don't know that stuff. It's an invasion of privacy.

The fact that we accept this on premise speaks volumes.

Keep your flat tax. It's unfair and invasive. Bring back apportioned taxation. If we must tax the citizens directly, let every citizen over majority age pay an equal dollar amount.
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Old 02-17-2014, 06:52   #73
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Why should citizens in a "free country" be required to produce a detailed accounting of their financials to the federal government each year? My closest friends don't know that stuff. It's an invasion of privacy.

The fact that we accept this on premise speaks volumes.

Keep your flat tax. It's unfair and invasive. Bring back apportioned taxation. If we must tax the citizens directly, let every citizen over majority age pay an equal dollar amount.
Agreed. Every word.

Anyone with an adult consciousness realizes at some point that its about control, first and foremost.
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Uncontrolled, unaccountable government spending + Graduated income-tax = SLAVERY
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:17   #74
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Why should citizens in a "free country" be required to produce a detailed accounting of their financials to the federal government each year? My closest friends don't know that stuff. It's an invasion of privacy.

The fact that we accept this on premise speaks volumes.

Keep your flat tax. It's unfair and invasive. Bring back apportioned taxation. If we must tax the citizens directly, let every citizen over majority age pay an equal dollar amount.
I see your points. However, what do we do with the people who simply don't make enough money to pay their portion of tax? Do we imprison them, which in turn costs everyone else more money yet?

I despise socialism as much as anyone, but the fact is that society contains a number of people who are too stupid, too sick, too whatever to actually earn their keep. What do we do with them?
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:27   #75
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Keep your flat tax. It's unfair and invasive. Bring back apportioned taxation. If we must tax the citizens directly, let every citizen over majority age pay an equal dollar amount.
It would have to be a small enough figure to be affordable to all. To the guy making $30k/year, it'd be huge. To the guy making $300k/year, it'd be pocket change. And the sum of all those taxes likely wouldn't come close to paying for the federal bloat. i.e. this just won't work unless you plan to also shut down most of the federal government.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:30   #76
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I see your points. However, what do we do with the people who simply don't make enough money to pay their portion of tax? Do we imprison them, which in turn costs everyone else more money yet?

I despise socialism as much as anyone, but the fact is that society contains a number of people who are too stupid, too sick, too whatever to actually earn their keep. What do we do with them?
Quote:
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It would have to be a small enough figure to be affordable to all. To the guy making $30k/year, it'd be huge. To the guy making $300k/year, it'd be pocket change. And the sum of all those taxes likely wouldn't come close to paying for the federal bloat. i.e. this just won't work unless you plan to also shut down most of the federal government.
The people would put restraint on government to control spending.
The average citizen would see and understand the inverse relationship between government spending and general prosperity.

People would SEE how they are enslaved to a socialistic oligarchy and would do what is required.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:36   #77
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It is, of course, a gross simplification. But it's useful as a rule of thumb. Most of the money you spend with a business gets paid out as salary or payment for services and eventually gets taxed as someone's income in any case; only about 10% of the federal income taxes collected in the US are corporate income taxes.
Businesses don't pay taxes. They charge their customers higher prices for their goods and services to make the same profit margin they otherwise would make without the taxes.
People pay business taxes one way or another...
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:51   #78
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The people would put restraint on government to control spending.
The average citizen would see and understand the inverse relationship between government spending and general prosperity.

People would SEE how they are enslaved to a socialistic oligarchy and would do what is required.
I agree that what you paint is the ideal outcome. Achieving it will be problematic to say the least, given human nature.

As a side note, I'm beyond giving the general population too much credit for intelligence and perceptiveness. Most want their own bread buttered, don't care about the rest of the country as long as they get theirs. Multiply that desire by 10x for those currently in power and seeking to maintain that power.
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Old 02-17-2014, 07:58   #79
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Without getting into the numbers, I will offer that about 50% of my household income goes to taxes.

Obama wants even more, of course. Apparently I need to be punished for my success.
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Old 02-17-2014, 08:18   #80
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I paid just shy of 9k this year, which is a record for me. Between Federal, state, property taxes etc I would peg it around 13k total. Which blows when I consider my account balances...
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