GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-16-2014, 09:42   #161
glockout
Senior Member
 
glockout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Buck Creek, Mo
Posts: 155
Slavery is alive and well in 2014.

World wide it is between 4 to 12 million.
The FBI says that it might be 300,000 in the United States.

It happens in every part of the United States, northern and southern, east and west. Major truck stops are many times hubs of this activity.

Slavery doesn't cause much alarm for most now and probably didn't 150 years ago.

Last edited by glockout; 02-16-2014 at 09:44..
glockout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 09:44   #162
meleors
Cranky Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 884
South Carolina, the first state to secede, in it's "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union" explicitly states that secession was about states rights concerning slavery.
They did not state any reason other than slavery.

Eliminate the slavery issue and SC would not have seceded.

To those that advocate that it was about state rights and not about slavery are delusional. South Carolina was afraid that slavery was about to be abolished. To say it was truly about state rights would be to say that the 2A is truly about militias (in the modern sense of the term).

Read the "Declaration of the Immediate Causes Which Induce and Justify the Secession of South Carolina from the Federal Union"
http://avalon.law.yale.edu/19th_century/csa_scarsec.asp

Nope not about slavery.
meleors is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 09:50   #163
certifiedfunds
Platinum Membership
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: NYC
Posts: 41,169


Quote:
Originally Posted by norton View Post
If you or I were held in bondage, 10 or 15 years would be a very very long time.
Depends on how into that sort of thing you are
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 09:57   #164
costanza187
I like Macs
 
costanza187's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Location: =^..^= Litter Box
Posts: 11,164
Speaking of Illinois in the Civil War. I have been googling my behind off and cannot find any documentation (yet), but I remember hearing/reading somewhere that Williamson County in southern IL also seceded from the union.

As far as my own ancestry, I got ancestors on both sides.
__________________
I'm so much cooler online.
costanza187 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 09:57   #165
Sainte
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 197
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
It appears that we have several people who are Confederate Sympathizers on this board. They believe Lincoln was wrong in keeping the nation together.



Isn't it unAmerican to be a Confederate Sympathizer?




For those born in the south, I mean if the Confederates were successful, you wouldn't be an American. If you were lucky, you would be a confederate. If you were unlucky, you could be Mexican or a German or....

I'd say YOU are the one who is un-American!

The South had more of the "American Ideal" by wanting to determine their own destiny whereas the North wanted to limit and control and, where it couldnt limit or control, they destroy or captured.

The North imposed it's will on Free States and it's citizens, a lot like what we see going on in today's Keyan Admin through the widespread, unchecked use of Executive Orders, EPA "oversight", NSA etc....

Lincoln pretty much shredded the Consitituion and especially the 10th Amendment to further his cause of controlling the South and ensuring the uninterrupted flow of textiles to the North at insanely cheap prices instead of letting the South sell those same textiles to higher paying customers. The Civil War, like most of our wars was about money and control by those with political influence paid for with the blood of the poor.
Sainte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:01   #166
Jade Falcon
Gimmie TITANS!
 
Jade Falcon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Vancouver, WA.
Posts: 4,065
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Well, then, there's no reason for me to start liking you. We'd be a better country if that POS had never been elected. I can't believe a gun owner would be a Lincoln fan, but I guess some vote Democrat and love their all-powerful federal government and just have guns for a hobby.
Ah, an a-hole making an assumption. I expected better of you, Bren. Most posts that I've seen of you on this forum over the years depict you as an intelligent person. Perhaps I'm wrong...

I've never voted Democrat before in my life, and I NEVER will. Guns aren't my "hobby"; they're my God-Given Right as a free man (something the Confederacy seemed to have a problem with; ya know: that whole part about whipping and selling black people for profit...). And I despise what our Federal Government has become today.

But people like you take a person's admiration and respect for a strong, smart, and wise president from 1860, and try to spin it like I wished Saddam Hussein were our leader. Pathetic, really. Pathetic and sad. Are you THAT narrow-minded?

It's almost as if because I liked Michael Richards when he played in "Seinfeld", means that I support his racist viewpoints that he spouted during his infamous stand-up routine. Absurd. Absurd and ludicrous.

But I hardly expect anything I say to get through such a narrow mind. So believe whatever you want to believe about me. Tell ya what: Hitler was awesome, Pol Pot had the right idea, and Stalin was simply a misunderstood individual.

There. That should help you REALLY hate my guts. Now, I'm hoping you'll see the sarcasm in the above post. But something tells me you'll think that I'm serious about what I just typed....

Dunno, don't care. Truth be told, I've lost interest in this thread. I will leave you all with this: don't be so quick to judge Lincoln. He had a REALLY nasty job, a VERY hard life and, I believe, did the best he could under the circumstances at the time. I challenge you to find someone at that moment of time whom could have done a better job. You're kidding yourselves if you think Jefferson Davis was that man.

__________________
AK-47 WASR 10/63, Puma M92 16" .454 Casull, Glock 22 .40 S&W, Marlin M60W .22 LR, Ruger GP100 4" .357 Magnum, Winchester M1400 12 ga.
Jade Falcon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:05   #167
.264 magnum
CLM Number 121
Charter Lifetime Member
 
.264 magnum's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Dallas TX
Posts: 16,986
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
Emotional content? What could possibly be emotional about it?
I'm making a completely MORAL and ETHICAL argument using the founding documents of our nation as a basis for my claim.

No "Northern" states (above the Mason Dixon line) held slaves. The border states like KY, Missouri etc had some slaves. Its disingenuous to claim that the North is as guilty as the South because there were legal slaveholders in those states. We all know it was the Southern politicians who prevented the abolition of Slavery and INSISTED not only on maintaining slavery but expanding it to the West... Again the history of the nation before the war is ALL about this issue... Burning Kansas, The Missouri Compromise, etc etc etc. If slavery was dead why did Southern politicians continue to insist on expanding slave territory to the west? Hmmm?

The myth of Northern dependency on the South for food (or cotton) is easily debunked by this simple fact. The North would have starved (or gone naked) during the war if that were true. The fact is that the North was agriculturally VERY productive and prosperous. It wasn't a single crop monoculture that depleted the soil like Tobacco or Cotton in the South. Its an economic fact. And of course the north didn't starve during the war (or go half naked)..but southerners did!

The issue was resolved by the war. It was made LAW by the US Congress with the adoption of the 13th Amendment by a Congress reflecting all the states.
The 1860 census indicates some slaves in New Jersey.

Regarding food and cotton, in the short term The North was able to feed itself well, towards the of the civil war food was becoming scarce and a good number of northerners starved during the last two winters of the war. Had the war continued or had the south won food would have been a huge problem for the north. More or less the same applies to cotton.

The Border States didn't have some slaves, as in a handful, the 1860 census indicates that number was around 400,000.

A key but rarely discussed reason The North won..................The North had roughly 3x the number of fighting aged men.
__________________
The Gonzales Flag - "Come and Take It!"
.264 magnum is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:17   #168
norton
Senior Member
 
norton's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: Land of Lincoln, the growing years
Posts: 6,835
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
It is not a civil war thread.

It is an I am an American when it suits me and a Confederate when it doesn't, thread.
I told you this would become a Civil War thread.
__________________
Tinker to Evers to Chance.
norton is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:22   #169
hogfish
Señor Member
 
hogfish's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: fl
Posts: 4,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
You do know the issue of secession was not new to the Union in 1861 right?

You also know that the author of the Constitution--James Madison--a Southerner (Virginia), said secession was not a right nor an option during the crisis provoked by South Carolina 30 years before the Civil War right? I mean, you'd think the guy who drafted the document knew a little bit about it...

You also, I'm sure, know that another Southerner--Andrew Jackson, slave owner and then President at the time said that secession from the Union is not an option.

So the issue to secede or not has a LONG history with many southerners arguing that its not an option. The Confederates made it an issue of open rebellion and armed conflict. The issue was decided on the battlefield. Guess what...
If that's the only/ultimate 'States Rights' issue that has been brought up since you asked, what are they talking about, then?
__________________
Opinions are like noses...everybody's got one.

"Almost no matter the question, capitalism and freedom are the answers, while government and religion are not." Syclone538
hogfish is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:23   #170
vikingsoftpaw
Senior Member
 
vikingsoftpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Willoughby, Ohio USA
Posts: 5,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
Then how can you explain Tennessee continuing to side with the confederacy after abolishing slavery?
Perhaps they had more in common philosophically and culturally with the rural and agricultural South than the Northern Urban Industrialists.
__________________
G - Guns, PG - Plenty of Guns, PG-13 - More than 13 Guns.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." - St. Augustine
vikingsoftpaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:24   #171
clancy
Senior Member
 
clancy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 2,153
Quote:
Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
Then how can you explain Tennessee continuing to side with the confederacy after abolishing slavery?




There was a very large part of Tennessee that was against siding with the Confederacy, and came very close to seceding and becoming a separate state, as West Virginia did. Interestingly, even though the Confederate States thought they had the right to secede from the union, they thought that West Virginia seceding from Virginia and joining the Union was, according to this quote from The Richmond Examiner, "against all the laws of God and man". When the New England states threatened to secede from the union during the government, led by the southern states, threatened to keep them in the union with violence, if necessary.


I find it interesting Southern apologists tend to gloss over these facts, and others, like Andrew Stephens inaugural address stating the cornerstone of the Confederacy was slavery. For those who say that slavery was going to die out there, it was clearly stated in the constitution could never be outlawed.


I grew up in Richmond, Va, and was raised on the myth of the Lost Cause. In college I did my Master's Thesis on the origins of the Civil War. Let's just say it was a eye-opening experience.
clancy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:29   #172
NeverMore1701
Platinum Membership
Fear no evil.
 
NeverMore1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 29,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
Well, then, there's no reason for me to start liking you. We'd be a better country if that POS had never been elected. I can't believe a gun owner would be a Lincoln fan, but I guess some vote Democrat and love their all-powerful federal government and just have guns for a hobby.
I'll be damned, I agree with you on something.
__________________
And if we should die tonight
We should all die together
Raise a glass of wine
For the last time
NeverMore1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:31   #173
NeverMore1701
Platinum Membership
Fear no evil.
 
NeverMore1701's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Amarillo, Tx
Posts: 29,907
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jade Falcon View Post
Just throwing in my 2 cents...

For me, it's not about the Confederacy. For me, it's about Abraham Lincoln, our 16th President. For me, it's utter disgust at those here who hate or despise the man. What the hell is wrong with you? It's almost like you idiots are glad that he got a .44 Caliber ball shot to the back of the skull. Go to hell!

I've ALWAYS admired, almost loved, Abraham Lincoln. I love his work, his speeches, and his writings. And those that don't just plain godamn piss me off.

Get out of the country if you have no love for the man! Without him, I'm convinced that this country would be well down **** creek by now; probably overrun with Commies, Nazis, or Japs. Is that the kind of country you would want to be living in right now? And NO, despite our dislike of our current president, he is NOT a complete Communist. I'm not defending him, but believe me: it would be much worse if Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, or Mussolini had had their way with this country.

Let me ask you this: who else, in 1860, could have led this country and kept the United States together, if not Lincoln? The answer is simple: NOBODY.

Those whom spit at the feet of this great and honorable man deserve neither respect or admiration. Instead, they get exactly what they deserve; what they yearn for: sympathy for the Confederacy.

You LOST! Get over it.

A) I didn't lose anything, as I wasn't born.

B) I identify myself as a Texan first and foremost.

C) The only tragedy about Lincoln's execution was that it happened five years too late.

__________________
And if we should die tonight
We should all die together
Raise a glass of wine
For the last time
NeverMore1701 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:35   #174
Sam Spade
Lifetime Membership
Senior Member
 
Sam Spade's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 21,106
Ah, what the heck...

Atlas, I think you're very wrong about slavery being doomed in the Confederacy. It was codified into their constitution: "No bill of attainder, ex post facto law, or law denying or impairing the right of property in negro slaves shall be passed."

Ain't no way that peculiar institution is dying out in 10-15 years when it's enshrined (several times, actually) in the founding document.
__________________
"To spit on your hands and lower the pike; to stand fast over the body of Leonidas the King; to be rear guard at Kunu-Ri; to stand and be still to the Birkenhead Drill; these are not rational acts. They are often merely necessary." Pournelle
Sam Spade is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:37   #175
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 56,174


The South had cooler fighting song.

Dixie Land was and is a much hipper song than Hymn of the Republic.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:39   #176
vikingsoftpaw
Senior Member
 
vikingsoftpaw's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Willoughby, Ohio USA
Posts: 5,487
Quote:
Originally Posted by .264 magnum View Post
A key but rarely discussed reason The North won..................The North had roughly 3x the number of fighting aged men.
Yes, which is why being city boys none of them could shoot straight. It is not merely coincidence they fell out of proportion to their numbers to southern rifleman.

Not all were inline line with the aims of the war. I recall reading of draft riots in northern cities. Not so much down south.

Even precolonial time the population was greater up north.Southern states only agreed to a union if they counted 3/5 of their slave numbers for representation.
__________________
G - Guns, PG - Plenty of Guns, PG-13 - More than 13 Guns.

"Though defensive violence will always be 'a sad necessity' in the eyes of men of principle, it would be still more unfortunate if wrongdoers should dominate just men." - St. Augustine

Last edited by vikingsoftpaw; 02-16-2014 at 10:39..
vikingsoftpaw is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:42   #177
kryl
Junior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Posts: 2
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post


OR...Since science says we all stem from one gene pool started in Africa, we are all African American.
Real science places the gene pool near the Tigris and Euphrates.
kryl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:45   #178
fnfalman
Chicks Dig It
 
fnfalman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: California & New Mexico, US
Posts: 56,174


Quote:
Originally Posted by kryl View Post
Real science places the gene pool near the Tigris and Euphrates.
Real science had no consensus as to where on Earth homo sapiens started.
__________________
Can you dig it?
fnfalman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 10:53   #179
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 35,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by vikingsoftpaw View Post
Not all were inline line with the aims of the war. I recall reading of draft riots in northern cities. Not so much down south.
Next you'll be trying to claim the yankees in the northern cities rioted and hung the free black folks they loved so much from trees and streetlights . . . wait a minute . . .
__________________
"Liberal" is when you hire others to use a guns to protect you, so you can pretend guns aren't necessary.
Bren is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 11:00   #180
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 35,001
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big Bird View Post
You folks who repeat this simplistic observation display a truly sophomoric understanding of the history of your nation.

Here's WHY Lincoln only freed the slaves in the south...
The Emancipation Proclamation would have been an Unconstitutional exercise of executive power in the states not in rebellion. But as commander in chief, Lincoln clearly had the power to declare marshal law in territories in rebellion and deny Southerner's property which could be employed in "the cause" against the Federal government.

Any High School level American history course would have covered this.
You are correct...as far as Lincoln goes.

However, neither congress nor some of the northern states passed laws to end slavery, even after the democrats walked out and left them the freedom to pass anything they wanted. Congress' authority to end slavery would have been questionable at the time, since the U.S. Constitution protected slavery, but the slaves were only freed in Washington DC, Kansas, New Jersey, Delaware, West Virginia, when the 13th Amendment became law, after the war.
__________________
"Liberal" is when you hire others to use a guns to protect you, so you can pretend guns aren't necessary.

Last edited by Bren; 02-16-2014 at 11:02..
Bren is online now   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 15:38.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,256
310 Members
946 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42