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Old 02-18-2014, 18:57   #351
stevemc
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I'm so tired of the smug yanks running their trap, quit clogging up our southern roads in the winter flocking to our beaches....

You, sir, own nothing.
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Old 02-20-2014, 10:10   #352
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Thank you for not locking this thread.


Seems like everyone's mind is made up, including mine, but getting info out to counter what we were all taught in government schools about one of the biggest, big government presidents, can't be a bad thing.


I wasn't going to post this, until he said that is is going to a video on lincoln next, and it will be assumed if you are watching that, that you watched this.


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Old 02-20-2014, 10:17   #353
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Nobody cares about the truth.... we must punish the white devils

even though only 1.4% of white Americans owned black slaves.... and 28% of free blacks owned black slaves....

but let's not confuse a good scapegoating with the facts

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Old 02-20-2014, 10:29   #354
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The South wanted to be free from the North for the same reasons the colonies wanted to be free from England/Europe: fiscal & social oppression by a greedy, selfish, hypocritical, unempathetic, distant government. Those who celebrate the Confederacy are the mourners within the larger group which celebrates US independence. The sentiment is the same; only the outcome was different.

Abolition was just a little salt in the wound - the North had more slaves & treated them worse (which is why blacks immediately moved South in droves). But Lincoln knew that abolition would have more impact on the Southern economy than Northern, and the whole war was about wrecking the South's burgeoning economy to ensure the North's economic supremacy through industrial dependence.

Those who display the Confederate flag don't give a flip about slavery, which is why it's not uncommon to see black Southern Americans displaying it. It's about states' rights, individual rights, and obeying the law (particularly the Constitution) - those are the things to remember when you see any version of Confederate flag. Even the official one of Town Line, NY.
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Old 02-20-2014, 11:57   #355
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Abolition was just a little salt in the wound - the North had more slaves & treated them worse (which is why blacks immediately moved South in droves). But Lincoln knew that abolition would have more impact on the Southern economy than Northern, and the whole war was about wrecking the South's burgeoning economy to ensure the North's economic supremacy through industrial dependence.

You are kidding, right?
http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0LEV...opulation.html

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Old 02-20-2014, 12:01   #356
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http://search.yahoo.com/r/_ylt=A0LEV...nd_free_states
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:02   #357
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You are kidding, right?

The Civil war was about Economic and social differences and state vs federal rights and nullification. Slavery was just used as a catalyst. A rally cry. A reason to fight the evil in the south Just like Weapons of Mass Destruction in Iraq or the Communist threat in Vietnam.

Right after the civil war those great union generals and leaders who were such champions of civil rights turned to great land grab which resulted in the mass extermination and enslavement of what was left of the native populations living free out west.

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Old 02-20-2014, 12:09   #358
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Quote:
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Those who display the Confederate flag don't give a flip about slavery, which is why it's not uncommon to see black Southern Americans displaying it.
If it's not uncommon, why haven't I actually seen it?

Anybody else here commonly see this?

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Old 02-20-2014, 12:10   #359
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Nobody cares about the truth.... we must punish the white devils

even though only 1.4% of white Americans owned black slaves.... and 28% of free blacks owned black slaves....

but let's not confuse a good scapegoating with the facts
That I had not read. Interesting.

Will certainly search, but do you have a cite to share?
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:17   #360
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That I had not read. Interesting.

Will certainly search, but do you have a cite to share?

Watch the video that was posted. Here is some more reading:

http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogel...s/charles3.htm

http://www.vice.com/read/hey-v12n5

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2956.html

For print try this:

Quote:
Less than 5% of the whites in the South owned slaves. Fully 3/4's of the white people of the South had neither slaves nor an immediate economic interest in the maintenance of slavery or the plantation system.
Reference:

John Hope Franklin in From Slavery to Freedom, McGraw-Hill, 1994., p. 123. Franklin was a Harvard educated Professor Emeritus of History and Professor of Legal History at Duke University.

Here is Mr. Franklin. A noted Author and Historian:

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Old 02-20-2014, 12:21   #361
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Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
If it's not uncommon, why haven't I actually seen it?

Anybody else here commonly see this?

Some. Maybe you don't live in the south? If "sinkholeville" means Florida, there aren't too many long-time southerners living in your cities. You may as well be in New England.
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:29   #362
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Quote:
Originally Posted by eb07 View Post
Watch the video that was posted. Here is some more reading:

http://www.uwec.edu/Geography/Ivogel...s/charles3.htm

http://www.vice.com/read/hey-v12n5

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part4/4p2956.html

For print try this:



Reference:

John Hope Franklin in From Slavery to Freedom, McGraw-Hill, 1994., p. 123. Franklin was a Harvard educated Professor Emeritus of History and Professor of Legal History at Duke University.

Here is Mr. Franklin. A noted Author and Historian:

Political Issues
Thanks
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Old 02-20-2014, 12:38   #363
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Please note, I do not condone slavery. I think it is was reprehensible to do that to another human, but I also am a study of history and I think that the civil war was the second fight for independence and the tyrannical government won.

Slavery was just the rally cry to demonize the states trying first for nullification of unconstitutional federal laws then secession when it didn't work. It was the starting point for the complete abuse of federal power that has grown to what we see today.

Then the government proceeded to commit worse atrocities such as slavery of Chinese railroad populations and of course the native Americans exterminations, roundups, and reservation slavery in the years immediately following the civil war. Stepping on or over anyone that dared get in their way of Manifest Destiny. Power, greed, land, money.....

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Old 02-20-2014, 13:01   #364
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Then the government proceeded to commit worse atrocities such as slavery of Chinese railroad populations and of course the native Americans exterminations, roundups, and reservation slavery in the years immediately following the civil war. Stepping on or over anyone that dared get in their way of Manifest Destiny. Power, greed, land, money.....
Love my country, fear my government.
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Old 02-20-2014, 17:31   #365
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Quote:
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Some. Maybe you don't live in the south? If "sinkholeville" means Florida, there aren't too many long-time southerners living in your cities. You may as well be in New England.
Unlike you, I've lived continuously within the borders of the former Confederate States of America for over 50 years, mostly in Virginia, but also in Florida.
And he didn't restrict it to long-term southerners, he said: "it's not uncommon to see black Southern Americans displaying it."

Is it common to see this, or is it, in fact, uncommon? Honestly.
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Old 02-20-2014, 18:22   #366
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChuteTheMall View Post
If it's not uncommon, why haven't I actually seen it?

Anybody else here commonly see this?

I was wondering the same thing.
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Old 02-20-2014, 22:05   #367
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Those who display the Confederate flag don't give a flip about slavery, which is why it's not uncommon to see black Southern Americans displaying it. It's about states' rights, individual rights, and obeying the law (particularly the Constitution) - those are the things to remember when you see any version of Confederate flag.
Remember listening to my great grandfather who remembered seeing yankee soldiers and remembered living through reconstruction. It was about states rights..... basically the same problems states are having with obamma's version of the federal government.

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Old 02-21-2014, 01:02   #368
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If it's not uncommon, why haven't I actually seen it?
Because it's also not common. "Common" doesn't break at 1/2. There's a big grey area in the middle that's neither common nor uncommon.
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Anybody else here commonly see this?
Who said or suggested it was commonly seen? Especially in "Sinkholeville", wherever that may be.

I've personally encountered many black Americans who are more informed than those who get media attention, and they not only know who initially enslaved black African slaves; they also know who treated them like slaves, and who treated them like valuable components of a functioning & profitable business, regardless of how they came to be associated with that business.

The stereotypical tyrannical & sadistic Southern plantation owner makes for a very entertaining movie, and provides a lot of political motivation, but it's hardly realistic. It wasn't General Lee who burned entire cities just for fun; take a minute to learn why Arlington National Cemetary IS the national cemetary.

But even if you don't believe me, just ask yourself why there are significantly fewer blacks in the North than in the South. Where were freed slaves more afraid to stay? And don't try to convince yourself that freed Southern slaves were unable to migrate northward - the Natchez Trace wasn't converted from a native-American trail to a highway by a wealthy white businessman who liked buggy-racing; it was worn wide by peasant barge crews walking northward MANY TIMES (the same workers, over & over). So it was not only possible; it was common.

But they just didn't want to go live up there. Why not? No jobs? There were vastly fewer in the post-war-depression South. That's why freed northern slaves were stopped at the train tracks in each Southern town, creating the "wrong side of the tracks" communities of unemployable peasant workers. Couldn't take the climate? Then why stay in TN & other (relatively) cold Southern states? They're obviously not as cold as ND, but they're equally-obviously far colder than Liberia.
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:09   #369
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Old 02-21-2014, 01:42   #370
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Why haven't you posted that pic in every thread in the Carry Issues forum, Gun Control forum, Civil Rights forum, & Religion forum?
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Old 02-21-2014, 12:56   #371
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Quote:
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Who said or suggested it was commonly seen?
You did.

I won't entertain any nuances between commonly seen and not uncommon to see.



Quote:
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Those who display the Confederate flag don't give a flip about slavery, which is why it's not uncommon to see black Southern Americans displaying it.
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Old 02-21-2014, 13:02   #372
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Unlike you, I've lived continuously within the borders of the former Confederate States of America for over 50 years, mostly in Virginia, but also in Florida.
And he didn't restrict it to long-term southerners, he said: "it's not uncommon to see black Southern Americans displaying it."

Is it common to see this, or is it, in fact, uncommon? Honestly.
Well then, you run with that standard "I can win the argument by taking every statement literally and nitpicking it" internet argument.

And I am also a former Florida resident.
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Old 02-21-2014, 13:53   #373
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The South is much like any place. Some fine folks and some scum.

It's pretty much what you make of it except the humidity will kill you.

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Old 02-21-2014, 21:37   #374
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Why haven't you posted that pic in every thread in the Carry Issues forum, Gun Control forum, Civil Rights forum, & Religion forum?
That is beating a dead horse as well.

Some folks are just obsessed with BS.
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Old 02-22-2014, 00:25   #375
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I won't entertain any nuances between commonly seen and not uncommon to see.
Then you must also agree than "shall not be infringed" means the same as "won't be entirely banned, at least to cops".

Words have meanings - learn them.



...at least the common meanings.
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"I can win the argument..."
If you think I won, what's my prize? Personally, I don't think internet arguments can be "won", and I was under the impression that this was a discussion forum; not an argument forum.
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