Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-17-2014, 11:56   #281
WilliamDahl
Senior Member
 
WilliamDahl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: TX Gulf Coast
Posts: 229
Blog Entries: 1
Personally, I am convinced that the War of Northern Aggression was a States Rights issue, but even if there was a slavery aspect of it, the fact of the matter is that the federal government was wanting to take a legal property from a group of its citizens without just compensation. How would you feel if the federal government said that your dino fuel automobile was now illegal and you had to have an electrical car instead and they would not compensate you for your loss? Remember the 5th Amendment?

Lincoln raped the Constitution. At that time, the Republicans were the liberals and the Democrats were the conservatives. He was directly responsible for the death of 600,000 Americans. The only problem with his assassination was that it didn't occur soon enough. He was responsible for a growth in a repressive federal government. The Founding Fathers intended the US to be a loose federation of Sovereign States. Lincoln made it into a Federation of *subject* states.

What I find ridiculous is that these people who refuse to recognize that the South had a right to secede are also ones who will argue that the various Russian breakaway republics definitely had a right to secede. If the Founding Fathers had the right to seceded from England, then the South had a right to secede from the US. Unfortunately, the Founding Fathers did not bother to put in the Constitution what was the acceptable way for a state to leave the Union. They said what it would take for an area to *become* a state, but not how that state might leave the Union if they determined that the Union had moved away from its founding principles (as has happened today especially). I guess they were guilty of thinking that they had created such a great thing that no one would want to leave. Saying that a state must always be a member of the Union is basically a form of slavery to the citizens of that state and their descendents. It is like there being a provision for marriage, but no provision for divorce, no matter how badly the other person treats you.

First, I'm a Texan.
Second, I'm a Southerner.
Third, I'm an American (even though I vehemently oppose what this once great country has become).
__________________
NATURAL BORN CITIZEN = offspring of TWO US citizens
Just because they are constantly playing the Race Card, it doesn't mean that we should allow them to get away with raping our Constitution.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Last edited by WilliamDahl; 02-17-2014 at 11:59..
WilliamDahl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 11:59   #282
mc1911
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Posts: 342
civil war

I worry less about the last one and more about another happening in the future.

What would it be? Rural vs. urban? North vs. south? East vs. west? Cenral states vs. left wing coasts?

My main concerns is the militarization of our police forces, the rise of Homeland security and that our troops will evolve into government forces.

Loyalty to the country may not always equal loyalty to the government in Washington.
mc1911 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:16   #283
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 37,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post
Yes. Forced starvation. The cold blooded murder of thousands of innocent civilians, the destruction of billions of dollars of privately owned property, (then against international law), the wanton shelling of American cities, is always the American way when one side stands up for our loss of our constutitional republic and the destruction of our dearest rights by a sitting president from his 1st day in office.

Sure, we have our hates, but we came by them fair and square. There is a reason for the rancor, and it will be in existance till "God shall wipe all tears from their eyes.."

Gray_Rider
But...but...those were the good guys.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Quote:
This is the internet - you will never learn to shoot here.
- Me, 2014.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:20   #284
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 37,381
Quote:
Originally Posted by mc1911 View Post

What would it be? Rural vs. urban? North vs. south? East vs. west? Cenral states vs. left wing coasts?
I have said many time that the common root of our issues with race, poverty, guns, crime, religion, dem v repub, freedom vs safety, etc. all comes down to one issue: rural vs urban.



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
Quote:
This is the internet - you will never learn to shoot here.
- Me, 2014.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:32   #285
Gunny Lingus
Think it moved
 
Gunny Lingus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 1,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
...all comes down to one issue: rural vs urban.
I had been thinking it will be between the haves and have nots. The have nots using and wanting government to take away from the haves and support them. What we are seeing now to the exponential.

But when you get down to it, rural vs urban is basically the same two groups of people.
__________________
"If G-d didn't want them sheared, He would not have made them sheep."


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Hey Yeager: Youtube is NOT your friend, and DOES NOT help your business.
Gunny Lingus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:34   #286
EOS
Headbanger
 
EOS's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Central Kentucky
Posts: 1,795
I can't speak for others, but in my case it has everything do to with being anti-Lincoln and opposing his tyrannical policies, not supporting the Confederacy. Both sides did terrible things during the war.

Just because Lincoln was a tyrannical prick doesn't absolve the Confederacy of it's atrocities.
__________________
Die When You Can Do No More Damage


Let Freedom Ring With A Shotgun Blast
EOS is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:38   #287
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 30,837


What I dont get is why cant we have a conversation about Southern values without it being about the Civil War?
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Sallust
Rabbi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:39   #288
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 5,209


I think it is the Union sympathizers that are un-American.

Let's see, the relatives said we dis-own you because we don't like how you are treating us. So they said, if you are leaving the family, we will kill you. They they came down and firebombed the house of one of the family members that was dis-owning them. Yeah, that seems like a very nice set of people.

From a government perspective, the North wanted a stronger central government to oppress the south and take advantage of them.

Also, in war they decided the right thing to do was to destroy the crops, and starve and kill the civilian population. And if the people that they supposedly were trying to free, were killed in the process, no big deal.

Recent original research confirms that even right before Lincoln was assassinated that what he really wanted to do was relocate the slaves to the Caribbean.

Remember history is written by the winners, so it can hardly be surprising that those educated in the North would have a very slanted view of the war that casts them in the best possible light, instead of thieves, murders, rapists that they were.

They also sent the Carpetbaggers down to oppress the people of the south (including the newly freed slaves), and profit from the destruction that they caused.

The North was for an oppressive central government controlled by industrialized cities; and the South was for states rights. It doesn't seem to have changed much over the last 150 years.

Am I a Confederate sympathizer? No, but I am surely not proud of what the Union did. And I know that the history that is taught in schools is not the complete truth and very slanted.

I know which I think is more American; and it is not "big government".
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:40   #289
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
Former British colonies are better off than former French colonies. There's a big difference between Jamaica and Haiti. http://aidwatchers.com/2010/12/it-re...h-than-french/
I think that is what I said.

The only thing worse than how the british left their empire is how the french did it.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:48   #290
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by WilliamDahl View Post
the fact of the matter is that the federal government was wanting to take a legal property from a group of its citizens without just compensation.
Please read a history book. Lincoln pretty much said he was willing to put the slavery issue a side for his presidency in an effort to keep the union together.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:54   #291
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by racerford View Post
I think it is the Union sympathizers that are un-American.

Let's see, the relatives said we dis-own you because we don't like how you are treating us. So they said, if you are leaving the family, we will kill you. They they came down and firebombed the house of one of the family members that was dis-owning them. Yeah, that seems like a very nice set of people.
It is one thing for someone to tell you they don't want to have anything more to deal with you.. It is another when they start shooting at you.

If the South didn't fire the first shots, you may have had a point....but as is they started the fight and the Union finished it.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:55   #292
syntaxerrorsix
CLM Number 301
Anti-Federalist
 
syntaxerrorsix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lakeland, FL.
Posts: 9,895
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
Please read a history book. Lincoln pretty much said he was willing to put the slavery issue a side for his presidency in an effort to keep the union together.

Slavery stance aside, Lincoln killed ~600,000 Americans to do so. A centralized Federal government isn't what the founders intended and killing 600,00 people to maintain it sure as hell wasn't following the spirit of the COTUS. It was wrong just as wrong as the British killing Americans to keep us from our independence.

If you have to kill someone in order for your views to be enforced maybe your ideas aren't really that good after all.
__________________
Sappers Forward
841st Eng (Cbt/Hvy) 81ARCOM, 84th Eng (Cbt/Hvy) 2ACR, 40th Eng (Mech) 1AD, 588th Eng (Mech) 4ID

syntaxerrorsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 12:57   #293
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by mc1911 View Post
I worry less about the last one and more about another happening in the future.

What would it be? Rural vs. urban? North vs. south? East vs. west? Cenral states vs. left wing coasts?

My main concerns is the militarization of our police forces, the rise of Homeland security and that our troops will evolve into government forces.

Loyalty to the country may not always equal loyalty to the government in Washington.
I am guessing that the powers that be will not allow a true civil war. They will slowly gut the constitution and no one will notice until it is too late.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:15   #294
Mrs.Cicero
Wayward Member
 
Mrs.Cicero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: far from home
Posts: 4,310
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabbi View Post
What I dont get is why cant we have a conversation about Southern values without it being about the Civil War?
Because those damn Yankees think Southern values include slavery even today.
__________________
"Don't waste your time with explanations. People only hear what they want to hear." Paulo Coelho

"Oh bother," said Pooh, as he chambered another round.
Mrs.Cicero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:15   #295
certifiedfunds
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Caught in the Middle
Posts: 43,376


Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
I have said many time that the common root of our issues with race, poverty, guns, crime, religion, dem v repub, freedom vs safety, etc. all comes down to one issue: rural vs urban.



Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Exactly so
__________________
“If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is WITH representation.”

Rush Limbaugh
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:17   #296
certifiedfunds
Tewwowist
 
certifiedfunds's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Location: Caught in the Middle
Posts: 43,376


Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
Please read a history book. Lincoln pretty much said he was willing to put the slavery issue a side for his presidency in an effort to keep the union together.
But I thought the war was about slavery?
__________________
“If Thomas Jefferson thought taxation without representation was bad, he should see how it is WITH representation.”

Rush Limbaugh
certifiedfunds is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:21   #297
Rabbi
Lifetime Membership
The Bombdiggity
 
Rabbi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: San AntonioTexas
Posts: 30,837


Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrs.Cicero View Post
Because those damn Yankees think Southern values include slavery even today.
Yeah. It is a way to try to trivialize the conservative South.


...and as always, because people confuse the messenger with the message...I am not 100% on board with "Southern Values." I am simply pointing out it doesnt mean all things southern, in 2014, have to be framed in terms of slavery and the Civil War...that is absurd.
__________________
In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

"Few men desire liberty; most men wish only for a just master." - Sallust
Rabbi is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:35   #298
Rizzo
Garbage Day!
 
Rizzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Godless country
Posts: 3,445
So, which is it? Did Lincoln save the country, end slavery and unite the states, or was he history's greatest monster? Can someone give me a straight answer?

BTW, I'll remind you all that today is President's Day, which is to say the combination of Washington's and Lincoln's birthday, so let's keep the comments respectful in light of the occasion.

Rizzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:36   #299
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 29,316
Quote:
Originally Posted by certifiedfunds View Post
But I thought the war was about slavery?
If you look at the documents from that time....

Lincoln says he will not go against slavery if it will keep the union together. And unlike today, politicians did keep their word back then.

Now the papers of Succession state slavery as the main cause. So from the South's prospective it was all about slavery.

Now when the shooting start. Both sides want to win....I will not defend the actions of the north except to say that they worked.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 13:37   #300
Tiro Fijo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 6,281
I see a perpetuation of the great myth that everyone in rural America is merely a "folksy" pioneer being steamrolled by the Fed. Gov't when quite frankly that is not the case. Rural America is totally dependent on entitlements whether they be food programs, WIC, or even Agricultural support programs. As well rural America has an incredible methamphetamine problem. It is not some sort of Rockwellian dream as imagined by many.




Secession today would not require one cartridge to be fired today as no state can exist without the Federal teat. Without Social Security, food programs, funding for roads, bridges, education they'd be begging to come back within a month. How's Grandma going to pay for her medicine if her state secedes or even receive it if her state becomes a sovereign nation?




People have allowed themselves to become wholly dependent upon the Federal teat. Remember, even an early 19th century Mountain Man was a slave to urban whims such as the beaver hat or a buffalo hunter on the Great Plains to industrial usage of hides produced by him.
Tiro Fijo is offline   Reply With Quote

 
  
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 01:24.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 726
155 Members
571 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,672
Aug 11, 2014 at 2:31