GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 02-16-2014, 19:40   #251
Big Bird
NRA Life Member
 
Big Bird's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Posts: 10,046
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bren View Post
So, to summarize, when I point out that some northern states never took steps to make slavery illegal under state law, you say I need to quit paying attention to primary resources on the history and that I need to consider the more complex reasons why....

Yet when we say you people need to consider the more complex reasons the south left the union, beyond "they wanted slaves" - yep, that's different.

The fact remains that some northern states, including the capitol of the Union, kept legal slavery until it was abolished by constitutional amendment, even thought they could have abolished it at any time. If the political situation in the north was such that they couldn't do that, doesn't that undercut a lot of the "north good and pure/south bad an racist" nonsense everyone likes to repeat?
Thank you for making my point. Anyone who looks at the whole thing as a giant good vs evil right vs wrong contest has got it wrong. Lots of warts and ugly things on both sides of the contest.
__________________
Big Bird,

“Est Nulla Via Invia Virute”
Big Bird is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 20:22   #252
Bolboda
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2013
Posts: 28
Lincoln did not have the authority to wage war on the states who left the Union.

I'll go out on a limb and call that "wrong".
Bolboda is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 20:25   #253
itisbruno
CLM Number 103
Devious Member
 
itisbruno's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Raccoon City
Posts: 25,846
Sweet Tea, anyone??

Or, maybe a Mint Julep?
__________________

Click HERE
daily to give food for animals in a shelter or sanctuary...for FREE

Last edited by itisbruno; 02-16-2014 at 20:25..
itisbruno is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 20:32   #254
Gray_Rider
Senior Member
 
Gray_Rider's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Jacksonville Fla.
Posts: 1,434
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Political Issues

Yes. Forced starvation. The cold blooded murder of thousands of innocent civilians, the destruction of billions of dollars of privately owned property, (then against international law), the wanton shelling of American cities, is always the American way when one side stands up for our loss of our constutitional republic and the destruction of our dearest rights by a sitting president from his 1st day in office.

Sure, we have our hates, but we came by them fair and square. There is a reason for the rancor, and it will be in existance till "God shall wipe all tears from their eyes.."

Gray_Rider
__________________
Deo Vindice!
We warned you in 1862!
Gray_Rider is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 20:35   #255
Cashgap
Senior Member
 
Cashgap's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Music City, USA
Posts: 775
Quote:
Originally Posted by clancy View Post
The likes of Robert E. Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest referred to it as the Civil War. Would you disagree with Southern icons such as them?
Well, sure. Wrong is wrong. We know what a civil war is, and even the most rabid Lincoln apologist would not believe that the Union and the Confederacy were fighting for control of the USA, rather than for secession.

"War Between The States" is an accurate and value-neutral label.
__________________
@Cashgap My Gangsta Glock Story

NRA Instructor, TN Handgun Carry Instructor, Glock Armorer, Certified Merger & Acquisition Advisor, Certified Lease Professional, Bunburner 1500 Gold rider, C&R FFL, N8ZTE, MBA, MACC = One of a kind
Cashgap is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 20:50   #256
Sainte
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 120
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
You can actually see numerous Rebel Flags in Pennsylvania too. Lots of sympathizers exist.

you only have to drive thru north philly to understand why....
Sainte is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 21:01   #257
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bolboda View Post
Lincoln did not have the authority to wage war on the states who left the Union.

I'll go out on a limb and call that "wrong".
It was "wrong" and if you read 'Lincoln" you will see that he wanted to punish the south and inflict serious injuries to the southern soldiers. He was not a good man.
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 21:03   #258
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by syntaxerrorsix View Post
Yeah because killing Americans it's always a good thing isn't it?

Amazing.
I guess it depends on who they are.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Walker_Lindh

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dzhokhar_and_Tamerlan_Tsarnaev

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 21:06   #259
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Bring it on...
We got more rifles down here now than you could have ever imagined exists on the entire planet. You know, those fancy repeating rifles...

And I personally have more than 10,000 rounds of 5.56 I'm willing to lend to the cause.

.
OK,

Political Issues



If you want to pick a fight with the Federal Gov. This is what I expect to happen.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.

Last edited by RWBlue; 02-16-2014 at 21:07..
RWBlue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 21:08   #260
glockout
Senior Member
 
glockout's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Buck Creek, Mo
Posts: 144
Tyro come down. we are ready this time.
My great grandmothers parents had their only milk cow killed for meat for the union military. No milk for the babies.

They survived but not because of your hero.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Political Issues
glockout is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 22:11   #261
Paul7
New Guy
 
Paul7's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: East of Eden
Posts: 13,342
Quote:
Originally Posted by RWBlue View Post
1789 those living in the United States and professing how they wanted to go back to British Rule were traitors.

1972 Jane Fonda was a....

2014 those living in the United States ......
In 1776, about a third of Americans supported the British, a third the Revolution, and the rest didn't care. If it wasn't for the French we would never have pulled it off.

Personally, I don't see how Canada, Australia, or New Zealand have suffered for not having had a violent separation from England.
__________________
“I don’t believe that people should be able to own guns.” Obama to John R. Lott Jr. in a private conversation at the University of Chicago.

Last edited by Paul7; 02-16-2014 at 22:13..
Paul7 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 22:15   #262
Tiro Fijo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Posts: 5,070
The Secesh fired the first shot and the Yanks finished it. Get over it. You lost. Feel lucky that the entire population wasn't put to the sword and that the Secesh leaders weren't summarily hung as traitors.






http://people.cohums.ohio-state.edu/.../myth/myth.htm
Tiro Fijo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 22:18   #263
HollowHead
Firm member
 
HollowHead's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: Where the buffalo roam
Posts: 23,085


Quote:
Originally Posted by Gray_Rider View Post
Yes. Forced starvation. The cold blooded murder of thousands of innocent civilians, the destruction of billions of dollars of privately owned property, (then against international law), the wanton shelling of American cities...
Gray_Rider
Lob a few shells on somebody's fort and this kind of stuff happens. HH
__________________
Never trust a pastor with a day job.

Sent from two coffee cans connected by a string.
HollowHead is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 22:33   #264
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
In 1776, about a third of Americans supported the British, a third the Revolution, and the rest didn't care. If it wasn't for the French we would never have pulled it off.

Personally, I don't see how Canada, Australia, or New Zealand have suffered for not having had a violent separation from England.
I think your estimations are high for the % who cared.

If England was closer or there was a telegraph to England or there ships were faster, I don't know if the USA would exist.

I was talking about citizens of the newly formed USA.

But...I think every location is different. In areas where the majority of the population was historically from the Isles of England things were one way.. Should we talk about India, Iraq, Sierra Leone, Gold Coast, Nigeria, Sudan, Jamaica? The only thing worse than how Britain released colonies from the empire was how the French did it.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 22:51   #265
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockout View Post
Tyro come down. we are ready this time.
My great grandmothers parents had their only milk cow killed for meat for the union military. No milk for the babies.

They survived but not because of your hero.
The cow proved to be a vital military resource and couldn't be left behind to be used by the enemy.


Sherman proved unrestricted warfare can win a war. If we had used the same tactics in Vietnam we would have won (OR got us into a Nuclear war).
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 23:00   #266
ULVER
Dixie Rebel
 
ULVER's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: ATL., GA. USA
Posts: 2,927
Send a message via Yahoo to ULVER


__________________
Last night fear knocked on the door...
Courage answered... There was no one there...
ACCURACY BEATS HORSEPOWER/TACTICS MEAN EVERYTHING
In memory of Off. Steven Trindle
In memory of Det. Dennis C. Stepnowski
ULVER is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 23:05   #267
RWBlue
CLM Number 120
Mr. CISSP, CISA
 
RWBlue's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 27,367
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
It was "wrong" and if you read 'Lincoln" you will see that he wanted to punish the south and inflict serious injuries to the southern soldiers. He was not a good man.
Considering some things that have been posted on this board about how we should treat all Afgans or Iraqis in the last couple years OR even German and Japanese who participated in WWII....I find Lincoln very reasonable.

Looking at his post war policy, it appears very lenient. The south may have been better off not assassinating Lincoln.
__________________
One day, I shall come back. Yes, I shall come back. Until then, there must be no regrets, no tears, no anxieties. Just go forward in all your beliefs and prove to me that I am not mistaken in mine.
RWBlue is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2014, 23:34   #268
glocking26
Senior Member
 
glocking26's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: glen mills pa.
Posts: 717
I wish I was born and raised in the south not up here.
glocking26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 00:31   #269
hotrodtrk
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 38
I'm not in any way a history buff and the posters here know way more than I do. But to be honest, I'm kinda tired of all the fighting. It sickens me sometimes to have to CC just to be safe. It seems we are just a hair above Neanderthal on the evolutionary ladder. It's history, done, and we will hopefully move on as humans to try and at least work together and stop the total control of our lives by 535 or so members in our capital. Man what we could accomplish if all the fighting would stop and we ban together to seriously improve our lives. I know it's a pipe dream. Ian by no means a pacifist, just wish we would move on as a society and start bettering ourselves.
hotrodtrk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 00:39   #270
Syclone0538
Senior Member
 
Syclone0538's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 847
It's amazing to me that with how easy it is to learn a little about it and not just fall for the propaganda, that so many people still believe the fairy tale.
Syclone0538 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 01:07   #271
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sainte View Post
you only have to drive thru north philly to understand why....
Philly and Baltimore have a lot in common and both are not very nice from personal observation.
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 01:24   #272
Blast
'nuff said
 
Blast's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: NKY/Cincinnati area
Posts: 19,636


Give it a rest.


Political Issues
__________________
A man should look for what is, and not for what he thinks should be - Albert Einstein
Blast is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 04:01   #273
AK_Stick
AAAMAD
 
AK_Stick's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Alaska, again (for now)
Posts: 20,167
Send a message via AIM to AK_Stick Send a message via Yahoo to AK_Stick
Quote:
Originally Posted by Atlas View Post
Bring it on...
We got more rifles down here now than you could have ever imagined exists on the entire planet. You know, those fancy repeating rifles...

And I personally have more than 10,000 rounds of 5.56 I'm willing to lend to the cause.

.

I've seen what happens during southern deer season. You'd just lose a second time.


That'd really be depressing.
__________________
Quote:
Thomas Paine:

"If there must be trouble, let it be in my day, that my children may have peace"
AK_Stick is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 04:33   #274
CAcop
Senior Member
 
CAcop's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: California
Posts: 21,240
Quote:
Originally Posted by glockout View Post
Tyro come down. we are ready this time.
My great grandmothers parents had their only milk cow killed for meat for the union military. No milk for the babies.

They survived but not because of your hero.
Cow milk is bad for babies.
__________________
I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
CAcop is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 02-17-2014, 05:08   #275
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,442
Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul7 View Post
In 1776, about a third of Americans supported the British, a third the Revolution, and the rest didn't care. If it wasn't for the French we would never have pulled it off.

Personally, I don't see how Canada, Australia, or New Zealand have suffered for not having had a violent separation from England.
Then you haven't been paying attention to CA, AU and NZ lately. Something is wrong in all the former Brit colonies and it looks a lot like what is wrong in England.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
If you are not an NRA member, you are not involved in gun rights, so sit down and shut the +%@# up.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:22.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,191
358 Members
833 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42