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Old 02-16-2014, 16:57   #226
clancy
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Originally Posted by barbedwiresmile View Post
<========Walks in, reads nine pages, recognizes the victors write history and that most attended government schools, chuckles at Lincoln as "savior" of United States comments, spits on floor, leaves.



.


In most instances, I would agree. If you go to any book store, though, you will find lots of books written by the losing side and their apologists.
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:00   #227
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Then I call you UnAmerican.

You are worse than Hanoi Jane.
Are you having a bad day RWBlue? A recent change in your medication?

You are coming across as confrontational and somewhat irrational. I doubt if either is likely to convince anyone of the rightness of your arguments. It is however likely to make them consider putting you on their ignore list.

I was behaving similarly in the weeks after my stroke last year. The blockage finally came free and I got better. Have you been having any other symptoms of a stroke?

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The symptoms of stroke are distinct because they happen quickly:
  1. Sudden numbness or weakness of the face, arm, or leg (especially on one side of the body)
  2. Sudden confusion, trouble speaking or understanding speech
  3. Sudden trouble seeing in one or both eyes
  4. Sudden trouble walking, dizziness, loss of balance or coordination
  5. Sudden severe headache with no known cause
I had #'s 3 and 5.


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Old 02-16-2014, 17:01   #228
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In most instances, I would agree. If you go to any book store, though, you will find lots of books written by the losing side and their apologists.
Very true. Most of the Civil War books I have read were written by fan boys for their predominant audience, Southerners who still care.
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:05   #229
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The winners write the history books.
You need to spend much more time in libraries and bookstores. HH
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:09   #230
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You can actually see numerous Rebel Flags in Pennsylvania too. Lots of sympathizers exist.
Lots of people grew up watching the Dukes of Hazard.

How many Pirate Flags get sold each year?
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:31   #231
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Lots of people grew up watching the Dukes of Hazard.

How many Pirate Flags get sold each year?
Well, Daisy Duke was hottt... Lots of kids, even Black kids wore rebel flags when I was in school. I too, am a "pirate sympathizer".
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:36   #232
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Well, Daisy Duke was hottt...

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Old 02-16-2014, 17:44   #233
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It seems like, to America, the Civil War is as fundamental a part of your nations culture and identity as what happened in 1776.

Why is it then that todays America often intervenes in the civil wars in other countries? Supposing France had invaded to "restore the peace" in the 1860s, wouldn't that actually have been a bad thing vs just letting the fight happen and allowing the nation to sort itself out?

Perhaps countries fighting today would be something special in a hundred years if they just have at it as America was "allowed" to.
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:45   #234
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Well, Daisy Duke was hottt... Lots of kids, even Black kids wore rebel flags when I was in school. I too, am a "pirate sympathizer".
Rrrrrrr
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:46   #235
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Well, Daisy Duke was hottt...
Something most red-blooded male Americans can agree on!
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:53   #236
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[QUOTE=Tiro Fijo;21014751]Gray Rider, I have nothing against you personally, however your pseudo Neo-Confederate views are delusional and founded on historical "tripe" by non peer reviewed historians who have no penchant for objectivity and ignore primary historical accounts by Confederate leaders as well as others of the period in question.


Anyone doubting this can read the previously locked thread here:


Then why are the books I have listed repeatedly never been proven false. Please list book, chapter, page, and paragraph that is "Neo Confederate tripe".

I have listed my sorces and the books mentioned have a wealth of other earlier works dating back to the war itself and in the early years following up to the present day. They all tell the same basic story of the founding fathers and the government they passed down to us that was destroyed with the South's loss of Lincoln's war.

Limited government founded in the bedrock of states rights. Low non invasive taxes. Strong constutitional fetters on said government. The list goes on and on, but as I say just read the books.

The main sticking point with the anti southern vitriol is the issue of slavery and white guilt for said slavery. Slavery was dying and it was disapearing in the South even before the war on an incrimental lavel. It died out in Brazil about 20 years after the WSI, and even in Hati and it was going to be kept on here (had the South achieved her independence) till the present!!?? Seriously?

No one could have forseen the far reaching power of the industrial revolution, but millions were kept in slavery by another name for decades after the war, simpily for the need of millions of manhours heavy back breaking work.

Chineese
Irish
Itialian
Baltic peoples

More?

Other immigrants and poor whites in Appliachia, including both my grandfathers in West Virginia coal mines. One had his back broken and returned to work as soon as he was able. My father's dad often worked standing in freezing water over his boot tops with mashed fingers, deep cuts, horrific filth, and coal dust by the ton that exploded with appalling regularity, and caused black lung in many thousands. Once, when he aquired chicken pox, my father's dad blacked his face BEFORE entering the mine. Just keep his job and feed his family. He would have been replaced had he called in sick and had four or five children and a wife to feed with a 2nd grade education.


And if you want a look at white/black/immigrant slavery by any other name, read up on the plight of the coal miners of the late 19th century and into the milddle of the last century before unionization. A nice picture of above can be seen in the movies "Matewan" or "Coal Miner's Daughter". My forefathers lived it sir, and they are as white as notebook paper.

See also the book. "They Died in the Darkness". As history of the horriffic mining disasters in West Virginia and the abominable treatment of the miners before unionisation.

Slavery by another name. No more no less, but no one marches for them or weeps for their sacrifice.

Gray_Rider
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Old 02-16-2014, 17:56   #237
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A sad byproduct ... how many know the difference between an ACTUAL Civil War (two factions fighting for control of one nation) and the War for Southern Independence (one side fighting when prevented from exercising its legal right to secede?

Getting every school student to inaccurately refer to it as a civil war was a good start.
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:06   #238
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A sad byproduct ... how many know the difference between an ACTUAL Civil War (two factions fighting for control of one nation) and the War for Southern Independence (one side fighting when prevented from exercising its legal right to secede?

Getting every school student to inaccurately refer to it as a civil war was a good start.


The likes of Robert E. Lee and Nathan Bedford Forrest referred to it as the Civil War. Would you disagree with Southern icons such as them?
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:24   #239
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[quote=Gray_Rider;21016427]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiro Fijo View Post
Gray Rider, I have nothing against you personally, however your pseudo Neo-Confederate views are delusional and founded on historical "tripe" by non peer reviewed historians who have no penchant for objectivity and ignore primary historical accounts by Confederate leaders as well as others of the period in question.


Anyone doubting this can read the previously locked thread here:


Then why are the books I have listed repeatedly never been proven false. Please list book, chapter, page, and paragraph that is "Neo Confederate tripe".

I have listed my sorces and the books mentioned have a wealth of other earlier works dating back to the war itself and in the early years following up to the present day. They all tell the same basic story of the founding fathers and the government they passed down to us that was destroyed with the South's loss of Lincoln's war.

Limited government founded in the bedrock of states rights. Low non invasive taxes. Strong constutitional fetters on said government. The list goes on and on, but as I say just read the books.

The main sticking point with the anti southern vitriol is the issue of slavery and white guilt for said slavery. Slavery was dying and it was disapearing in the South even before the war on an incrimental lavel. It died out in Brazil about 20 years after the WSI, and even in Hati and it was going to be kept on here (had the South achieved her independence) till the present!!?? Seriously?

No one could have forseen the far reaching power of the industrial revolution, but millions were kept in slavery by another name for decades after the war, simpily for the need of millions of manhours heavy back breaking work.

Chineese
Irish
Itialian
Baltic peoples

More?

Other immigrants and poor whites in Appliachia, including both my grandfathers in West Virginia coal mines. One had his back broken and returned to work as soon as he was able. My father's dad often worked standing in freezing water over his boot tops with mashed fingers, deep cuts, horrific filth, and coal dust by the ton that exploded with appalling regularity, and caused black lung in many thousands. Once, when he aquired chicken pox, my father's dad blacked his face BEFORE entering the mine. Just keep his job and feed his family. He would have been replaced had he called in sick and had four or five children and a wife to feed with a 2nd grade education.


And if you want a look at white/black/immigrant slavery by any other name, read up on the plight of the coal miners of the late 19th century and into the milddle of the last century before unionization. A nice picture of above can be seen in the movies "Matewan" or "Coal Miner's Daughter". My forefathers lived it sir, and they are as white as notebook paper.

See also the book. "They Died in the Darkness". As history of the horriffic mining disasters in West Virginia and the abominable treatment of the miners before unionisation.

Slavery by another name. No more no less, but no one marches for them or weeps for their sacrifice.

Gray_Rider


Slavery was not about to die out. It was guaranteed to exist in perpetuity by the Constitution of the Confederate States. You keep referring to your books. I have read several of them, and they are laughable, at best. Half truths at best, outright lies and worst, and the invention of, or twisting of facts to fit their arguments, as well as the ignoring of those facts that do not fit their premise. I would recommend you go to the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, and instead of genuflecting at the Altar of the Lost Cause, spend some time researching the letters, diaries and memoirs of the Southern soldiers. You might findi t enlightening. I did. Slavery did not die out in Brazil and Haiti, it died a bloody death of slave revolts.


You are now, when you find it difficult to defend your argument, switching the argument to what whites went through in the coal mines. Retreatin' Joe Johnston had nothing on you.
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:27   #240
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Just throwing in my 2 cents...

For me, it's not about the Confederacy. For me, it's about Abraham Lincoln, our 16th President. For me, it's utter disgust at those here who hate or despise the man. What the hell is wrong with you? It's almost like you idiots are glad that he got a .44 Caliber ball shot to the back of the skull. Go to hell!

I've ALWAYS admired, almost loved, Abraham Lincoln. I love his work, his speeches, and his writings. And those that don't just plain godamn piss me off.

Get out of the country if you have no love for the man! Without him, I'm convinced that this country would be well down **** creek by now; probably overrun with Commies, Nazis, or Japs. Is that the kind of country you would want to be living in right now? And NO, despite our dislike of our current president, he is NOT a complete Communist. I'm not defending him, but believe me: it would be much worse if Pol Pot, Mao, Hitler, or Mussolini had had their way with this country.

Let me ask you this: who else, in 1860, could have led this country and kept the United States together, if not Lincoln? The answer is simple: NOBODY.

Those whom spit at the feet of this great and honorable man deserve neither respect or admiration. Instead, they get exactly what they deserve; what they yearn for: sympathy for the Confederacy.

You LOST! Get over it.
No. Sir. America "lost". Pardon me if I don't "get over" the destruction of our constutition and dearest rights handed down by our founding fathers championed by your hero Lincoln.

Read the books sir and get back to me...(click my avatar)

See "The Real Lincoln" And "Lincoln Unmasked" DiLorenzo for starters...

It's chock full of "Neo Confederate tripe" culled from the offical records of the U.S. Government, letters/diaries/offical orders/records from both sides of the conflict, and multitudes of other irrefuatable sorces to numerous to mention. See the references section of any book I list.

Cheers,

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Old 02-16-2014, 18:35   #241
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[quote=clancy;21016497]
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Slavery was not about to die out. It was guaranteed to exist in perpetuity by the Constitution of the Confederate States. You keep referring to your books. I have read several of them, and they are laughable, at best. Half truths at best, outright lies and worst, and the invention of, or twisting of facts to fit their arguments, as well as the ignoring of those facts that do not fit their premise. I would recommend you go to the Museum of the Confederacy in Richmond, and instead of genuflecting at the Altar of the Lost Cause, spend some time researching the letters, diaries and memoirs of the Southern soldiers. You might findi t enlightening. I did. Slavery did not die out in Brazil and Haiti, it died a bloody death of slave revolts. ***Due to horrific conditions they were forced to live in.*** Still didn't happen here during the war.


You are now, when you find it difficult to defend your argument, switching the argument to what whites went through in the coal mines. Retreatin' Joe Johnston had nothing on you.
Please qoute book, chapter, page, paragraph, reference related, and refute. No one has yet.

And if you think what the coal miners (et al listed) went through was trite, you don't know your history or much of slavery in the South, before during or after the war.

There was still no major slave uprising in the U.S. during the war when Lincoln was doing his best to exterminate white and black Southerners during the war through starvation, the cold blooded murder of civilians white, slave and free black. If such as you exists in such volumes why is it not quoted by anti southern (and they are legion) writers?

Civil War? Please look up the definition. Regardless of who used the term, it still was not a "civil war", and my son is named for Forrest, Jackson, and Lee, just for the tally books.

Still waiting...and its been years,

Respectfully pro Confederate,

Gray_Rider
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:41   #242
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Save yo Dixie cups boys, the South will rise again.........shonuff ya'll
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:51   #243
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"You are coming across as confrontational and somewhat irrational."

Somewhat?

In other news, General Grant's wife owned slaves throughout the Civil War. There is still some debate whether the General owned them as well.

"These slaves were not freed until 1865 when Missouri officially abolished slavery."

www.american-presidents.org/2007/02/grant-was-slave-owner.html
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Old 02-16-2014, 18:52   #244
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I see my dream I stated in post #12 didnt come to pass, which is not surprising. These threads on the civil war never fail to deliver drama, venom, misinformation, among other things. But this one is ranking right up there with one of the better all-time pissing matches.
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:17   #245
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Well, then, there's no reason for me to start liking you. We'd be a better country if that POS had never been elected. I can't believe a gun owner would be a Lincoln fan, but I guess some vote Democrat and love their all-powerful federal government and just have guns for a hobby.

:thumbsup.

Best post I've made it to so far.
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:18   #246
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:29   #247
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Funny how those wanted a military separation from England in 1776 were 'good', and those who wanted a military separation from the North were 'bad' in 1861.
Agreed.
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:35   #248
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Yeah because killing Americans it's always a good thing isn't it?

Amazing.
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:36   #249
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Old 02-16-2014, 19:39   #250
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Bring it on...
We got more rifles down here now than you could have ever imagined exists on the entire planet. You know, those fancy repeating rifles...

And I personally have more than 10,000 rounds of 5.56 I'm willing to lend to the cause.

.
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