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Old 02-16-2014, 11:01   #181
ditto1958
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Originally Posted by norton View Post
Oh boy we haven't had a good civil war thread in a while.
I'll go ahead and throw my bomb.
The resurrection of the South began after the War ended. The outcome was inevitable. The North had the resources and the manpower to crush the rebels.
Southerners had to pretend the war had any real issue other then slavery to honor their relatives who were wounded or perished due to the War. They understood that trying to justify the War and its terrible carnage required a more noble cause then "we just wanted to keep them on the plantation".
Rich mans war-that included northern industrialists and southern plantation owners.
Poor mans fight-all of those farm boys from Ohio, Minnesota, New York, Alabama, Georgia, Virginia who just joined up to get away from the drudgery of the farm.
It really was about states' rights, and the issue of a strong federal government vs. a looser confederation of states. Slavery was the catalyst without which there likely would not have been war. The fact remains, though, that southerners tended to believe they were Virginians or Georgians first, and Americans second. Many were really fighting for that and not slavery.

Even today, most southerners still believe the federal government needs to leave the states alone. Is that un-American? No, not at all. In fact, folks around here tend to be much more likely to be proudly and unabashedly patriotic and very demonstrative about their love for America.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:04   #182
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Well, the states that once made up The Confederacy are the freedom loving states today. The Union, today, contains the most socialistic states, and people, in America.

Maybe there is something to it.
And that is why I'm proud to be from Alabama. The heart of Dixie ! You can call me a Confederate sympathizer, in many ways I am, I will wear that badge anytime. I just want to be free and left alone. I don't need any liberal Democrats telling me how I should live and what's best for me and my family. If any on here don't like that then thank all the veterans from both sides and from all other wars for the ability to disagree with me.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:04   #183
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Bren, your sig line is particularly appropriate in this thread.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:06   #184
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Even precolonial time the population was greater up north.Southern states only agreed to a union if they counted 3/5 of their slave numbers for representation.
Um…no. Not even logical. Why would Southern states want LESS representation?

The fact is that formula was impressed upon them by the North. After the war, the North did not want the South to accumulate too much power. Larger population meant greater representation in the House of Representatives. See: Mark Levin.

It also totally destroys the notion that it was done out of Southern white racism and the idea that freed slaves were not equal to a white man or were lesser human beings. It was a way to subdue Southern representation, since House seats are done by apportionment.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:14   #185
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It really was about states' rights, and the issue of a strong federal government vs. a looser confederation of states. Slavery was the catalyst without which there likely would not have been war. The fact remains, though, that southerners tended to believe they were Virginians or Georgians first, and Americans second. Many were really fighting for that and not slavery.

Even today, most southerners still believe the federal government needs to leave the states alone. Is that un-American? No, not at all. In fact, folks around here tend to be much more likely to be proudly and unabashedly patriotic and very demonstrative about their love for America.

the materialistic, "busy-body", all always-on-the-go, Jersey Shore loving liberal Yankees will never understand the slower paced, freedom loving, wholesome, ethical, "man of your word", handshake agreement lifestyle of the South.

i am currently sentenced to live in NJ for 2 more months until i retire. i cant believe some of the people up here and just how indoctrinated theyve become. they have no problems with two guys sucking face in a bookstore but, i say "y'all" and holy smokes, you can actually watch the blood drain from their faces, a sneer develope or they get a look on their face like they are dealing with a window licker. Amazing how condescending these a-holes are up here.
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Old 02-16-2014, 11:15   #186
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Originally Posted by G29Reload View Post
Um…no. Not even logical. Why would Southern states want LESS representation?

The fact is that formula was impressed upon them by the North. After the war, the North did not want the South to accumulate too much power. Larger population meant greater representation in the House of Representatives. See: Mark Levin.

It also totally destroys the notion that it was done out of Southern white racism and the idea that freed slaves were not equal to a white man or were lesser human beings. It was a way to subdue Southern representation, since House seats are done by apportionment.
Gerrymandering has been going on for a very long time!

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Old 02-16-2014, 11:17   #187
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YOU FOLKS may wish to research the president's ability to suspend the constitution in times of emergency. I did learn that in high school.
I used to believe this. The fact is, he didn't have the power. It was supposed to be done by Congress. But Congress supported him and legalized what he did, after the fact.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:07   #188
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I was born in America. I'm an American.


I personally don't care for the use of "hyphenated Americans" in general, but use it to clarify when I'm discussing the cultures that existed here before Europeans arrived. I'm fascinated by and study the "native-Americans.


Being united makes America strong. I'm against using a hyphenated title form some arbitrary time period or race as a matter of being divisive. Aren't we all "Garden of Eden-Americans?"
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:19   #189
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:22   #190
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Just throwing in my 2 cents...
...
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Ah, an ... making an assumption.
...

Why are you trying to get the thread locked?
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:32   #191
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Originally Posted by zukyota View Post
And that is why I'm proud to be from Alabama. The heart of Dixie ! You can call me a Confederate sympathizer, in many ways I am, I will wear that badge anytime. I just want to be free and left alone. I don't need any liberal Democrats telling me how I should live and what's best for me and my family. If any on here don't like that then thank all the veterans from both sides and from all other wars for the ability to disagree with me.
I am a citizen of my home state first, the United States second.

As it was intended to be.
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Old 02-16-2014, 12:48   #192
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I was born in the south, and my ancestor was a Confederate soldier. If you want to tell me I should live my life with my head hung low in shame because of that, then you sir, can go straight to Hell. I am American. If this were the CSA I'd STILL be American, just an American under a different form of governance. People need to realize that their government or the party in power is not what America is. It's an ideal, a homeland, a way of life.

Today the civil war is just a chapter in history, a brutal struggle between Americans who saw what America should be as something different. There's a bit of snobbish bitterness you see in many northerners towards southerners, because of where they live and who their ancestors were, that seems a lot closer to the idea of racism they are so quick to accuse their southern countrymen of.
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:23   #193
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I am a citizen of my home state first, the United States second.

As it was intended to be.
Not me. Then again I live in CA. If I could transport 50+ family members to OR I would.
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:46   #194
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Yes, which is why being city boys none of them could shoot straight. It is not merely coincidence they fell out of proportion to their numbers to southern rifleman.

Not all were inline line with the aims of the war. I recall reading of draft riots in northern cities. Not so much down south.

Even precolonial time the population was greater up north.Southern states only agreed to a union if they counted 3/5 of their slave numbers for representation.


All the Confederate states had Home Guard units whose main purpose was to hunt down draft dodgers(yes, the South instituted the draft, well before the North) and deserters. Desertion was a constant problem for the south, even in the famed Stonewall Brigade, right from the very start of hostilities. There were also huge areas in the south that remained loyal to the federal government, ever hear of the Kingdom of Jones? Every Confederate state, with the exception of South Carolina, had whole regiments that fought for the union. I personally know 3 former members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans who, after learning about their family tree, had ancestors who fought for the union and not the Confederacy.


That everyone in the south was completely in favor of secession is a fallacy, though very few Confederate revisionists like to admit it.
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:48   #195
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Not me. Then again I live in CA. If I could transport 50+ family members to OR I would.
Drug 'em and rent a U-Haul. I suppose you meant the move to be voluntary, though....
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:49   #196
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Only 3% of the white population owned any slaves at all. Real smart of some of you to stereotype the rest of the South according to that 3%. For the uneducated who think there were no slaves in the North... may I refer you to the Dred Scott case? How about the act allowing the recovery of runaway slaves in Northern states? Were you aware of how many free blacks were kidnapped out of WASHINGTON DC betwee1810 and 1860 and "returned to their owners"/sold into slavery? For those who think there were no riots in the South, may I refer you to the food riots in Richmond and other cities starting in 1863?

Stop demonizing the other side, whatever side that is for you, and educate yourselves with facts (instead of emotions and opinions) so we can figure out how to stomp our overbearing federal government back into a reasonable size without having another war over secession.
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:51   #197
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I was born in the south, and my ancestor was a Confederate soldier. If you want to tell me I should live my life with my head hung low in shame because of that, then you sir, can go straight to Hell. I am American.
Of course not. What happened in the past happened in the past. I have relative who fought on both sides.

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If this were the CSA I'd STILL be American,
Well, assuming the USA and the CSA still existed....You would be a Confederate American, vs. a United American. I would expect you to bad mouth Lincoln and bad mouth Sherman and Grant. But you are currently a United American.

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Today the civil war is just a chapter in history, a brutal struggle between Americans who saw what America should be as something different. There's a bit of snobbish bitterness you see in many northerners towards southerners, because of where they live and who their ancestors were, that seems a lot closer to the idea of racism they are so quick to accuse their southern countrymen of.
As you said, the past is the past. You will see in the most dangerous people in the USA thread. It started with people bad mouthing Lincoln, then Jefferson Davis came up. Not the other way around.
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:54   #198
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Not me. Then again I live in CA. If I could transport 50+ family members to OR I would.
I would suggest a school bus. Follow the railroad north to freedom.

Seriously, I understand what you are saying. I am working on move to a more free state....Funny thing is, it looks like it will be in the south.
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Old 02-16-2014, 13:56   #199
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...
so we can figure out how to stomp our overbearing federal government back into a reasonable size without having another war over secession.
I don't think that's even remotely possible.
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Old 02-16-2014, 14:01   #200
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All the Confederate states had Home Guard units whose main purpose was to hunt down draft dodgers(yes, the South instituted the draft, well before the North) and deserters. Desertion was a constant problem for the south, even in the famed Stonewall Brigade, right from the very start of hostilities. There were also huge areas in the south that remained loyal to the federal government, ever hear of the Kingdom of Jones? Every Confederate state, with the exception of South Carolina, had whole regiments that fought for the union. I personally know 3 former members of the Sons of Confederate Veterans who, after learning about their family tree, had ancestors who fought for the union and not the Confederacy.


That everyone in the south was completely in favor of secession is a fallacy, though very few Confederate revisionists like to admit it.


Interesting info in that post. Gotta admit, I never knew about southern regiments fighting for the Union.
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