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Old 02-08-2014, 19:34   #161
serve_and_protect
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Originally Posted by J.ThaddeusToad View Post
Good to know the people sucking their living off of my paycheck at the .fedgov, working on regulating my life in every possible way, are that out of touch with reality, reason, and American values.

When one of these church friends of yours (esp. pastor) eventually tries to put a bibilical spin on their anti-freedom views, it's definitely time to cut ties and find a different congregation (and probably denomination) 'cause, uh...that ain't in the good book dude.

Hey J. ThaddeusToad,

Thanks for your reply. So far, they haven't tried telling me that Christianity is anti-gun ownership (it isn't).

I have tried showing my friends and pastor the Biblical support for self-defense and defending the people you care about.

When talking to my pastor, I even brought up Luke 22, where Jesus tells his disciples to buy swords.

I also brought up many passages from the Old Testament, and also this Scripture from Ephesians:

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

(Ephesians 6:12)


My pastor reacted to that with alarm, and he seemed really disturbed about the idea of owning guns to fight against the rulers, authorities, etc that are mentioned in the Scripture from Ephesians.

But he hasn't said that owning firearms conflicts with Christianity.

His views on gun ownership are surprising, since we are a pretty Scripture-based church, and not at all theologically "liberal."
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:37   #162
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Originally Posted by Magnus2131 View Post
Years and years of propaganda declaring how dangerous guns are. I'm not surprised. Lots of people thing that if you own a gun, it's only a matter of time before you go on a shooting spree.
Yeah, it seems like they feel that owning guns can eventually make an owner dangerous, instead of the owner determining how the gun is used.

And no matter what pro-gun reasoning I try, they simply don't agree.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:39   #163
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Originally Posted by G36's Rule View Post
Six pages of this nonsense...

OP, who did you vote for in the last Presidential election?
I always vote Republican.

I'm still really annoyed that Cuccinelli didn't win the last election for governor. I think he would have made a great governor.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:39   #164
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Originally Posted by Syclone0538 View Post
What guns do you own, and why did you chose them?
If he responds to this post maybe we can be done with the "troll" responses.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:43   #165
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The Okie Corral

you a member of the VCDL?

If not you should really consider. They are like the NRA for the state of Virginia. They have fought for many of the gun rights laws we have and fought against gun control here in Va.

Study their website and see if there is any info there (stats/facts) that you can use to educate your friends.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:46   #166
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I agree. It sounds like his friends are in Congressman Jim Moron's district. Alexandria is libtarded for the most part. I would suggest to the op who sounds like he is young and still has the ideals that all people are good and it will take a few years to teach these people the truth.

I would suggest to the females to ask them what they may do if they are attractive and a thug wants some of their goodies? But op, you should remember one thing..while people may claim to be anti gun a lot of them have guns at home and lie about it. Good luck in choosing your friends better in the future. Try getting them to learn to shoot etc.
Hi Juneybooney,

Thanks for your reply.

You're totally right about Alexandria (and Arlington, Falls Church, Fairfax, Loudoun, etc) becoming increasingly left-wing.

I remember on the Washington Post website on election night, they had an election map where it listed the results by polling place.

In a lot of places in NoVA, McAwful got upwards of 70% of the vote

Even in places like Manassas it seems like the Democrat population is growing.

Hopefully Frank Wolf's district will stay GOP this November.

When I heard that he is retiring, I wasn't sure whether to be glad that a more conservative R might be elected to replace him, or if I should worry that the district will turn D.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:48   #167
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Originally Posted by Syclone0538 View Post
What guns do you own, and why did you chose them?
Do you work for the ATF?

Just kidding, but being repeatedly called a troll is kind of tiresome.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:54   #168
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Originally Posted by serve_and_protect View Post
Do you work for the ATF?

Just kidding, but being repeatedly called a troll is kind of tiresome.
Don't worry, they already know. They got the information from the NSA via the spy app that is on your phone. Oh, BTW, they say that the porn sites that you frequent are not that great. I suspect this is because of the sexual orientation of the current illegal squatter that is in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave.

http://hillbuzz.org/is-barack-obama-gay
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:58   #169
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I sense youthful naïveté in the OP's statements.

By the way, most of my family and acquaintances are not gun enthusiasts, nor are they anti-gun. There is a huge part of the US population that has little or no experience with firearms. Many guys in my basic training outfit didn't know squat about guns until they started training with one.
Hey PhotoFeller, thanks for your reply.

Quote:
We should be careful about putting folks into the 'anti' box simply because they are ignorant about or are afraid of guns.

Sounds like the OP's friends are plain anti-gun. Philosophical bias is hard to turn around, so they may be too broke to fix.
Yeah this is a really good point.

My friends are hardly "progressive/liberal."

They are committed Christians, and they are pro-life, and have conservative views on some other issues.

In their own states, which don't have much of a gun culture, they would be considered conservative.

I don't think that they intentionally want to restrict anyone's rights.

I think the idea of regular people having access to firearms just concerns and alarms them.

They aren't used to being around guns, and they don't know many people who own guns, so I think they view an interest in guns, even for a hobby, as concerning.

They aren't "anti-gun" in the political sense. They don't sign anti-gun petitions or donate money to anti-gun groups, or contact their representatives and ask them to vote for anti-gun legislation, or anything like that.

That's why I'm really surprised that it is so hard to get them to at least understand my point of view.
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Old 02-08-2014, 19:59   #170
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I always vote Republican.

I'm still really annoyed that Cuccinelli didn't win the last election for governor. I think he would have made a great governor.
OK, I'm going to take the bait and treat your dilemma as a real issue for one post.

I've made an assumption that may be wrong. I assume you are a male person between the age of 21 and 30 years old, if this is not correct it might explain quite a bit.

No male of legal age that I've ever known would tolerate what you are going through. You supposedly have made a decision about 2nd Amendment rights and gun ownership that most here agree with. These rights are very important and should be a major part of our lives.

In my world, and I'll bet the majority here, if a "friend" were to want to debate the merits of any subject it would be welcome. At the end we should be able to reach some equal ground OR agree to disagree and go on with our friendship regardless.

In my world, any friend who made ultimatums about ANY subject which I held dear would be shown the door. Or worse.

Simply put, you know what you are about. If they can't deal with it, they can go pound sand.

Does that settle it for you?
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:04   #171
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I have relatives that are very religious and every time we met, they were pushing their particular sect's religion onto me. I tried to be polite, regardless of how much of the "you are going to hell" that I heard from them, but at some point, you have enough and figure that it is just not worth it to associate with them anymore. Same with the anti-2nd-Amendment crowd as far as I'm concerned. It doesn't matter how many times you show them that they are idiots, they never will understand.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:05   #172
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serve_and_protect,

You're stretching this issue beyond credibility, in my opinion.

If you're capable of making your own decisions laugh off your friends' concerns by reminding them they are always welcome to accompany you to the range if they want to broaden their horizons. And for good measure ask them to tell you in all honesty what instantaneous thoughts they'd have should they detect a home invasion in the dead of night in the affluent neighborhoods they live.

We once had a committed "progressive" couple whose political opinions were opposite ours, and although we tolerated the differences they did not. Without any word they cut off all contact with us because (we assume) they could only accept conformance with their political ideology. You might inquire of your alleged "friends" if they cannot tolerate political difference of opinion, in your seeming interest in solving your dilemma.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:09   #173
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If he responds to this post maybe we can be done with the "troll" responses.
Hi Frank,

Thanks for the support!

I'm definitely not a troll.

I thought it would be a good idea to ask for advice on this forum, since I don't know very many people who are pro-gun.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:12   #174
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The problem isn't guns. The problem is that your friends require you to conform to their standards of behavior and beliefs while caring nothing for yours.


This should tell you something.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:23   #175
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Originally Posted by serve_and_protect View Post
Hey J. ThaddeusToad,

Thanks for your reply. So far, they haven't tried telling me that Christianity is anti-gun ownership (it isn't).

I have tried showing my friends and pastor the Biblical support for self-defense and defending the people you care about.

When talking to my pastor, I even brought up Luke 22, where Jesus tells his disciples to buy swords.

I also brought up many passages from the Old Testament, and also this Scripture from Ephesians:

12 For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms.

(Ephesians 6:12)


My pastor reacted to that with alarm, and he seemed really disturbed about the idea of owning guns to fight against the rulers, authorities, etc that are mentioned in the Scripture from Ephesians.

But he hasn't said that owning firearms conflicts with Christianity.

His views on gun ownership are surprising, since we are a pretty Scripture-based church, and not at all theologically "liberal."
If he is relatively young, he was most likely exposed to the more feminized, liberal version of Christianinty presented in most seminaries nowadays in which natural rights (like self defense) are not discussed and no position is taken for fear of not being inclusive enough. Even in the very conservative Baptist bible college I dropped out of, these things were generally ignored.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:25   #176
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serve_and_protect,

Holy crap, enough whining about your emotionally stunted, sexually deviant, worthless "friends". They (if they truly exist) are not worth 10 seconds of consideration much less 7 pages of posts. Grow a pair and get some real friends and never look back.

p.s. sorry to the rest of GT for extending this nonsense any further.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:26   #177
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Oh the horror! 8 pages.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:33   #178
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Originally Posted by serve_and_protect View Post
Do you work for the ATF?

Just kidding, but being repeatedly called a troll is kind of tiresome.
Quote:
Originally Posted by serve_and_protect View Post
Hi Frank,

Thanks for the support!

I'm definitely not a troll.

I thought it would be a good idea to ask for advice on this forum, since I don't know very many people who are pro-gun.
And this is why everyone thinks you are a troll. You don't answer direct questions.
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:34   #179
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You're welcome.



I don't know. The people I'm thinking of have never been invited to my home. I have had anti- or just non-gun guests in my home, though, and honestly the issue mostly never came up. I dated a very liberal girl, once, though, and the issue eventually came up with her, as she spent more time and had more access, she eventually saw one. She was slightly nervous about it, and I just put it away and pointed out that it couldn't do anything without someone holding it. A month later she went camping with me and some friends, wound up shooting and enjoying it. Turned around 180deg. on the subject. Mostly, though, I don't tell people there are guns in my home. It's none of their business. I don't tell them what RX meds are in my medicine cabinet either. Why would I?



And that is their right. Remember, as much as you have the right to be armed, they have the right not to be. They have the right to abstain from shooting and avoid guns. They have the right to disapprove and be unreasonable. I don't personally think they have the right to try to vote their gun-free utopia into existence, but they would surely disagree, and I can see that side of the argument.
Hey RagnarDanneskjold,

Thanks again for your advice.

That's a good point. I don't want them to think that I am being intolerant or dismissive of their viewpoint.

I definitely do respect their right to their views.


Quote:
This sounds like you're making some of your own problems. Don't tell antis what the law doesn't say. It just upsets them and makes them want to "fix" it. Leave them in their happy ignorance.


Don't push them. Don't bring it up. If they bring it up, say something like: "I don't think we're going to agree on this issue, lets just table it." Anyone who values your friendship as much as you do theirs should respect that.




You're welcome again. The second amendment has nothing to do with your problem, really. It doesn't guarantee you the right to be liked, or have friends, or even not be reviled in the press every time something bad happens.

Good luck.
Thanks!
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Old 02-08-2014, 20:38   #180
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And this is why everyone thinks you are a troll. You don't answer direct questions.
I just answered yours, about whom I voted for.

Why does he need to know specifically what guns I own?

How is that relevant to what we are discussing?

For the record, I am interested in firearms mainly for self-defense.

I don't have anything at all against hunting, but if he (and you) are trying to imply that I am a hunter type who only cares about side-by-side shotguns, that would be completely wrong.

My views on gun ownership are the same (as far as I can tell) as the views of the VCDL and GOA.
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