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Old 12-19-2013, 13:25   #1
Praelus
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Glock 29 Failures

Hello all,

I recently purchased a new Glock 29 Gen 4, along with 2 Glock 20 15-round magazines, 3 Pearce PG-29 pinky extensions, and 2 A&G spacers. For ammunition, I purchased Underwood 135 grain JHP and 200 grain TMJ, along with a box of Remington UMC 180 grain FMJ.

On my first trip to the range, I experienced 3 failures in 74 rounds. I hadn't been expecting them, so I wasn't careful to note which ammo the failures occurred with. I am also relatively new to firearms, so I am not the most technically-savvy owner - and as a consequence I don't know exactly how to classify the failures, other than to say that on one of them the slide locked back with rounds still in the magazine, on another the slide moved forward but was blocked by the next round (a jam), and on the third the slide moved all the way forward but the trigger didn't appear to reset (if that's possible). I can also report that these failures occurred with both the 10 and 15-round magazines.

I was a bit disheartened by this result, so on the second trip I made more careful observations. To eliminate at least one variable, I loaded all five magazines with the same ammo (Underwood 180 grain TMJ). Unfortunately, I had many more failures than on the first trip, but mostly with the 15-round magazines. In fact, there was only one failure with the 10-round mags: on the first mag, the slide locked back before the last round had been fired.

The amount of failures with the 15-round mags was extreme - at least 7 failures on both mags! It seemed like I had to manually operate the slide after almost every round, so the weapon had effectively been reduced to something like a single action revolver - but considerably more cumbersome!

Needless to say, I am quite upset by this performance, which is a shame, considering that I am enjoying the weapon very much otherwise. I find the recoil very manageable (though noticeably sharper than my first firearm, a Glock 19) - almost fun, in fact - and I have become quite accurate and smooth with follow-up shots. I also like the aesthetics of the 29 and the amount of firepower in a small package.

I am now weighing my options. I think that the next thing to attempt is swapping out the Pearce grip extensions with the original floor plates, in order to eliminate another variable. I have heard some say that the extensions may affect weapon reliability, though others assert that this modification to the Glock 29 is almost a necessity. I tend to fall in line with the second school of thought, and if the 29 cannot be fired reliably with the pinky extension, I may have to part with it.

I would appreciate any input input or suggestions from those who may be familiar with this issue, and if you've made it to the end of my message, I thank you very much for your patience!

Last edited by Praelus; 12-19-2013 at 13:41..
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Old 12-19-2013, 13:31   #2
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It's tough to diagnose your malfunctions without being there, but it sounds to me like its your grip. Because of the more stout recoil, I think your hand is hitting the slide stop before all rounds are used. I've done this myself on my G21. The pistol shifting around in your hand might also be why your 29 didn't appear to reset its trigger, maybe you never let it out enough to reset. This is my best guess. Doesn't sound like its the gun if the same thing has happened with three different magazines. Try a VERY firm grip, then see if a friend has the same issues shooting YOUR pistol.

And since your 29 is new, be sure its lubed up right per the manual and allow for a little break in period before you give up hope. Glocks didn't used to need a break in period, but it seems more and more like they need the 200 round break in that other manufacturers recommend.
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Old 12-19-2013, 13:56   #3
Praelus
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Thanks for your comment. I had actually considered the slide stop issue as a possibility, so on the second trip I tried to be careful to hold my thumb lower than I would otherwise. I have not had that problem with my 19 - but as you said, the 29's recoil is more stout.

As for the break-in period, I actually did have a few failures on my Gen 4 19 when it was brand new, within the first hundred or so rounds. But still, nowhere near the amount of problems as the 29.

Last edited by Praelus; 12-19-2013 at 13:57..
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Old 12-19-2013, 14:35   #4
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Just a few thoughts of my own, before our resident gurus arrive with some real-world wisdom, and I mean that sincerely...

About Your Ammo:

The Underwood 135 Grain Nosler JHP is a knock off of one of Double Tap's most famous, and hottest 10 mm loads. I brought some of this ammo in myself, but have yet to range test it, since the DT version of this is what my G21 .45 - 10 mm Conversion Rig runs best on, and the UW is like 25% cheaper! And these cartridges, at 1600 fps and 767 ft/lbs. offer a true 10 mm experience! At any rate, to cycle at 100% in my conversion rig, these little gems require a 22 lb. recoil spring... Note: While the UW ammo specs out the same as the DT, the UW cartridges are just shy of 1 mm longer than the DT cartridges are, and I'll have to see if this affects their reliability in my G21. In any case, I will report back on this.

I looked up the Underwood 180 Grain and 200 Grain TMJ... These flat-nosed cartridges—i.e., flat-nosed bullets—do not feed reliably in my converted G21; they get hung up on the feed ramp. Only the more bulbous-nosed TMJ cartridges, and the less severely polygonal JHP's, like the aforementioned 135 Grain Noslers , will load reliably.

Okay, the Remington ammo also appears to be of the flat-nosed variety... You might want to try some of the more bulbous-nosed ammos, like Winchester Silver Tip and CCI Blazer, just to see if they load more reliably...

I wish I had more for you. But you are...

A) Shooting The Hotter Loads!

and

B) Shooting The Square-Nosed Loads!

Not that you shouldn't be! Just saying...

RSA'S:

You might want to try another recoil spring, as well as a few other ammo types.

MAKE A LOG:

I would apply tape and number the magazines before my next range visit. We had problems with my wife’s new G19 and it turned out to be one funky magazine!

Write down each mag/ammo/RSA combination, and how it performed.

Good luck!

You're doing nothing wrong! You'll master your grip and technique in a thousand rounds.

And we do expect these Glocks to eat pretty much anything—they're Glocks, after all!

I dearly hope you/we can get this figured out! I greatly admire the 10 mm and the G20/G29!

--Ray
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Old 12-19-2013, 14:55   #5
Praelus
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Thanks so much for your detailed reply. I signed up for Glock Talk about a week ago and had to wait a while for my account to be activated, but it was worth the wait to get the advice of this community!

I hadn't even considered the flat-nosed spec as a potential source of problems. That is very interesting, and I thank you for pointing that out. On my next trip, I will load up a few mags with just the 135 grain Underwood to see if that alleviates the issue. I will also look into acquiring some Winchester Silver Tip; it's not a full power load (which are my favorite) but it is decent for factory ammo.

I'll also consider replacing the recoil spring if the problems persist. I had been hoping to leave the 29 as stock as possible, but I'm willing to give anything a try at this point.

Thanks again.
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Old 12-19-2013, 15:02   #6
texas 48
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Praelus View Post
Hello all,

I recently purchased a new Glock 29 Gen 4, along with 2 Glock 20 15-round magazines, 3 Pearce PG-29 pinky extensions, and 2 A&G spacers. For ammunition, I purchased Underwood 135 grain JHP and 200 grain TMJ, along with a box of Remington UMC 180 grain FMJ.

On my first trip to the range, I experienced 3 failures in 74 rounds. I hadn't been expecting them, so I wasn't careful to note which ammo the failures occurred with. I am also relatively new to firearms, so I am not the most technically-savvy owner - and as a consequence I don't know exactly how to classify the failures, other than to say that on one of them the slide locked back with rounds still in the magazine, on another the slide moved forward but was blocked by the next round (a jam), and on the third the slide moved all the way forward but the trigger didn't appear to reset (if that's possible). I can also report that these failures occurred with both the 10 and 15-round magazines.

I was a bit disheartened by this result, so on the second trip I made more careful observations. To eliminate at least one variable, I loaded all five magazines with the same ammo (Underwood 180 grain TMJ). Unfortunately, I had many more failures than on the first trip, but mostly with the 15-round magazines. In fact, there was only one failure with the 10-round mags: on the first mag, the slide locked back before the last round had been fired.

The amount of failures with the 15-round mags was extreme - at least 7 failures on both mags! It seemed like I had to manually operate the slide after almost every round, so the weapon had effectively been reduced to something like a single action revolver - but considerably more cumbersome!

Needless to say, I am quite upset by this performance, which is a shame, considering that I am enjoying the weapon very much otherwise. I find the recoil very manageable (though noticeably sharper than my first firearm, a Glock 19) - almost fun, in fact - and I have become quite accurate and smooth with follow-up shots. I also like the aesthetics of the 29 and the amount of firepower in a small package.

I am now weighing my options. I think that the next thing to attempt is swapping out the Pearce grip extensions with the original floor plates, in order to eliminate another variable. I have heard some say that the extensions may affect weapon reliability, though others assert that this modification to the Glock 29 is almost a necessity. I tend to fall in line with the second school of thought, and if the 29 cannot be fired reliably with the pinky extension, I may have to part with it.

I would appreciate any input input or suggestions from those who may be familiar with this issue, and if you've made it to the end of my message, I thank you very much for your patience!
Limp wristing can cause FTF. Especially with weak loads. I have fired 1000's of rounds in my 29 and 20 with no FTF's whatsoever. My 29 mags all have the Pearce extenders. I shot nothing but my loads and early on Double Taps. Could also be bad springs in your mags. In addition you could tap the back of your mags to insure the bullets are all the way to the rear of the mag. The 29 can be reliably fired with a 2 finger grip and pinky underneath. Grip it tight but does nor require death grip. Just my opinion
My 10mm Glocks run just fine with OEM recoil springs. Might want to changes th out after 2000 rounds of heavy loads like Underwood. Rayb offered some helpful advice but I might add that a g21 conversion is not the same gun as a g29.It has a lighter slide and a conversion barrel is more finicky than a Glock barrel. Not apples to apples comparison.
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Last edited by texas 48; 12-19-2013 at 15:21..
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Old 12-19-2013, 15:09   #7
Praelus
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Limp wristing can cause FTF.
I don't seem to have that issue with the 19, so could it still be the source of the problems with the 29? Does increased recoil lead to a higher incidence of limp wristing?

I had also considered that, so I tried to hold the gun as steadily and firmly as possible when firing.
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Old 12-19-2013, 15:10   #8
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Hello all,

I recently purchased a new Glock 29 Gen 4, along with 2 Glock 20 15-round magazines, 3 Pearce PG-29 pinky extensions, and 2 A&G spacers. For ammunition, I purchased Underwood 135 grain JHP and 200 grain TMJ, along with a box of Remington UMC 180 grain FMJ.

On my first trip to the range, I experienced 3 failures in 74 rounds. I hadn't been expecting them, so I wasn't careful to note which ammo the failures occurred with. I am also relatively new to firearms, so I am not the most technically-savvy owner - and as a consequence I don't know exactly how to classify the failures, other than to say that on one of them the slide locked back with rounds still in the magazine, on another the slide moved forward but was blocked by the next round (a jam), and on the third the slide moved all the way forward but the trigger didn't appear to reset (if that's possible). I can also report that these failures occurred with both the 10 and 15-round magazines.

I was a bit disheartened by this result, so on the second trip I made more careful observations. To eliminate at least one variable, I loaded all five magazines with the same ammo (Underwood 180 grain TMJ). Unfortunately, I had many more failures than on the first trip, but mostly with the 15-round magazines. In fact, there was only one failure with the 10-round mags: on the first mag, the slide locked back before the last round had been fired.

The amount of failures with the 15-round mags was extreme - at least 7 failures on both mags! It seemed like I had to manually operate the slide after almost every round, so the weapon had effectively been reduced to something like a single action revolver - but considerably more cumbersome!

Needless to say, I am quite upset by this performance, which is a shame, considering that I am enjoying the weapon very much otherwise. I find the recoil very manageable (though noticeably sharper than my first firearm, a Glock 19) - almost fun, in fact - and I have become quite accurate and smooth with follow-up shots. I also like the aesthetics of the 29 and the amount of firepower in a small package.

I am now weighing my options. I think that the next thing to attempt is swapping out the Pearce grip extensions with the original floor plates, in order to eliminate another variable. I have heard some say that the extensions may affect weapon reliability, though others assert that this modification to the Glock 29 is almost a necessity. I tend to fall in line with the second school of thought, and if the 29 cannot be fired reliably with the pinky extension, I may have to part with it.

I would appreciate any input input or suggestions from those who may be familiar with this issue, and if you've made it to the end of my message, I thank you very much for your patience!
The first thing to consider is that you have bitten off more than you can chew for now. That does not mean that you can't do it but that you are expecting too much of yourself too soon if your previous experience is limited to 9mm.

The first thing to do is to restrict yourself to the UMC ammunition and see how you get on with that. After enough practice to be comfortable and familiar with that, start trying the Underwood again. Jumping from 9mm to Underwood is a big step!

Because it happens so quickly you can't see or feel what happens to your hand under recoil other than the big push and flip. In reality your thumbs are likely to flop around and that is the probably reason for the slide lock being actuated before the last round is fired - your thumb is just hitting it upwards at just the wrong moment.

The round that loaded into the chamber without resetting the trigger sounds very much as though you are not holding firmly enough. As a result, the slide has gone back only just far enough to eject and to load the next round without going back far enough to pick up the firing pin lug. The other failure you describe as jamming on the next round is similar but this time the next round did not have enough time for the magazine spring to push it high enough before the slide picked it up.

I say that this is a weak grip problem reluctantly because I believe most people deducing this as the cause of a problem are wrong in most cases. You can try two things. The obvious one has been mentioned by Opie 1 Kenopie. Get an experienced 10mm shooter to shoot the pistol for you and see whether the same thing happens.

Since your expert, if you can find one, would need to shoot at least 100 rounds at your expense, you might not like that idea much so you might prefer to try to trick yourself into holding better. This depends on being able to do some point shooting - that is, having somewhere you can shoot that way. If you can shoot quite close to a berm of some kind, throw a tin can or small block of wood onto the berm about 5 yards away, stand square to the target with your forearm horizontal and your elbow ahead of your body so that your upper arm is about 45 degrees from vertical. for the first shot, look at the pistol in your hand and, with the slide in line with your forearm, move it until you think it is pointing at the target. Now stop looking at the pistol! Hold the pistol hard and pull the trigger. Don't jerk it but don't just pull it slowly. As soon as it fires, adjust your according to where you hit the berm and where the target has bounced to without looking at the pistol and fire again, and again and again till the slide locks back. Put a fresh fully loaded magazine in and do it again. Keep holding tight! Shoot as fast as you reasonably can to keep the can bouncing! To start with, look at your pistol position before the first shot in each magazine.

Do this for a hundred rounds or so and see how you get on. You will learn some interesting things about point shooting and it will be so involving that you probably won't have any misfeeds or misfires. Because your arm is bent at the elbow and pivoting from the shoulder, the felt recoil at your hand will be reduced so you won't be worrying about that. Because you are not consciously thinking, or trying to think, about too many things at once, you are not letting your grip and wrist go slack.

If you can try this it should help.

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Old 12-19-2013, 17:11   #9
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True enough, a Conversion Rig is a different animal... But if the OP searches through the threads of the past two weeks in this forum, he will glean additional insight on recoil springs, frame battering, etc., all within the context of getting the most from his new 10 mm.

At least one other poster mentioned a finicky feeding G20 or G29... We forget sometimes that these Glocks aren't clones, but rather replications made within a range of specifications. The occasional finicky Glock, and even the outright lemon, does surface now and again.

The point about grip strength is a good one too. In all seriousness, if you've been pushing a pencil too long, something like this...




...may be just what you need. I had to go this route after breaking two fingers in my right hand. You loose quick what you don't use!

3 - 5 lb. dumbbells will also build wrist and forearm strength.

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Old 12-19-2013, 18:51   #10
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Welcome to GT! And enjoy your 29. I have shot many a 29 and own and shoot a 20 a lot.

From reading your post there could be a issue with your 29, but it's very doubtful. I have a feeling the recoil is making your hands do real funny things. Going from a G19 to a 29 is a very big step indeed. Then throwing in real 10mm ammo. Your on a huge learning curve!

I would take the extensions off for one. And I think you are getting the top of your right hand into the slide and your right thumb on the slide and hold back. Get a good solid grip on the 29. You don't need a monster grip at all. Just a good solid controlled grip. No cup and saucer grip. Get into a natural stance forward into the pistol. Don't lock your wrist or elbow's. Let the pistol cycle the energy through your upper body. This will help you control the muzzle flip and rearward thrust. Spread the recoil impulse through a larger mass. By being all ridged I bet the pistol is dancing all around in your hands. Thus a little slide ride can induce to a "T" what you are experiencing.

Don't give up on the 29 yet. Because in reality my money's on you giving up on yourself. There are very few people that over all have problems with 10mm Glocks. The king and queen of Glockdom are real good monarchs.

Last edited by blastfact; 12-19-2013 at 18:55..
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:20   #11
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I would revert your G29 back completely stock and then go from there. Also, pick up some lower powered 10mm, like some Federal American Eagle 180gr and try those out. I've noticed with myself at times my thumb will hit the slide stop release causing the slide to lock back on a loaded mag, but that only really happens with warm loads.

Seems like you got less failures with the 10rd mags, so stick to those for now, but still revert everything back to stock and shoot some lighter loads to see if the problem persists. If, while at the range you see someone else shooting a Glock that looks like they know what they're doing, make friends and let them try out your 29 (and they may let you shoot their Glock too!), and if they know what they're doing ask for some tips.

If you don't have anybody to show you, look up videos on youtube on how to properly hold the gun, and take the advise others have given you here as well. You don't have to squeeze it like you're trying to kill it, more like a firm handshake. I also push a little with my right and counter that by pulling a little from my left (support) hand, that helps stabilize the grip. Dry fire a bunch too, it helps especially if you're not real familiar with Glocks.
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Old 12-20-2013, 10:45   #12
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SDGlock23, great post!

I agree that grip is likely part of the issue. Trigger reset problems and failures to feed can be symptoms. I wouldn't spend any money on any parts before we eliminate this as a problem.

One experiment is to remove the slide and then insert a loaded mag -- particularly a G20 mag. While holding the grip with your strong hand, notice how much you can wrench around the mag (and thus bullet alignment) with a bit of tugging. If this happens during recoil, it can affect feeding. It is a somewhat flexy system.

I would guess that with the additional recoil, there is some energy imparted into the mag such that it might be twisting. If you are right handed, it is really easy to yank on the mag so that it aligns the bullet nose-left. This would be especially easy with the longer G20 mag.

The +2 extensions have been hit-and-miss too.

Here is what I would do: Go through the process of the elimination. Get your G29 mags back to stock. Start with UMC or American Eagle ammo and work on grip and function.
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Old 12-20-2013, 12:27   #13
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1. get some talon grip tape - this will help you hold on better. G29 with underwood ammo is a recoil BEAST.

2. get a wolff guide rod with 23lb spring. even 23lb isn't enough but that is as high as wolff goes. You may experience approx a 20rd break in. The 23lb spring will cycle everything from heaviest hottest 10mm down to weak 357sig conversion. You might as well *****can your stock spring.

3. have someone load a mag for you. put a empty piece of brass or snap cap in there. This will tell you if your flinching and how bad. You'll be surprised. This may have a few things to do with your functional issues ESPECIALLY with a stock spring.

if you want to keep beating yourself and your gun up with the stock spring be my guest. But I put 7000 rds of 10mm through my 20 and 29 last year. Without issues and with custom barrels.
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Old 12-20-2013, 15:55   #14
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"If, while at the range you see someone else shooting a Glock that looks like they know what they're doing, make friends and let them try out your 29 (and they may let you shoot their Glock too!), and if they know what they're doing ask for some tips."

I have been diddling around with guns for 30 years, am 65 years old, but am constantly seeking knowledge and info from others who know more than I do (don't have to look far, usually). I've had to look up videos on the Internet more than once to find out how to solve problems with guns.

Don't ever be afraid to ask questions and seek the advice of others. That's a fundamental aspect of the learning process. There is no question too stupid to ask.

AK
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Old 12-20-2013, 17:00   #15
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Do not use the Pierce pinky plates with g20 15 round mags, there is your problem with those. The Pierce pinky plates may also be the culprit on the 10 round mags but I have yet to have a failure with them or the g20 15 round mags with the spacer but without the Pierce pinky plates.
It could be a gen 4 issue as I have two gen 3 g29s and one g20 gen 3 and one gen4.

I don't bother with underwood ammo as it's tough to get and over-priced and extreme fps isn't a must as 10mm works great as a target and self-defense round at 1050-1300fps. I have shot the underwood 165, golden saber and fed premium 180 and the 155-175 reloads I do and not a single malfunction of any kind on any of the four 10mm glocks I own.

My best guess is the pierce pinky on the g20 mag and/or a gen 4 issue with the g29.
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Old 12-20-2013, 17:05   #16
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I have to add after reading some folks telling you to get aftermarket parts. DO NOT change recoil spring or anything for that matter. The last thing you want to do is start adding aftermarket or non-stock parts in order to come to a solution.

It's either a gen 4 issue, a bad glock which is very rare or it's the Pierce grips/bad mag springs.
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Old 12-20-2013, 17:25   #17
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"I don't bother with underwood ammo as it's tough to get and over-priced,"

Never have had any trouble getting UW ammo. Gets here in 2 days. Yes, the JHP's are not always in stock, but the FMJ's usually are. Their prices are very reasonable. Compare them to those at gun stores sometime. $27/box for UW 180gr. FMJs. $37/box for Am. Eagle Federal at LGS.

AK
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Old 12-20-2013, 21:00   #18
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Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
"I don't bother with underwood ammo as it's tough to get and over-priced,"

Never have had any trouble getting UW ammo. Gets here in 2 days. Yes, the JHP's are not always in stock, but the FMJ's usually are. Their prices are very reasonable. Compare them to those at gun stores sometime. $27/box for UW 180gr. FMJs. $37/box for Am. Eagle Federal at LGS.

AK

Decent 10 mm ammo is MIA in my area. And the UW ammo is at least 25% cheaper than the comparable Double Tap cartridges are, which is significant to me.

Speaking only for myself, since I don't reload or hunt and fish, or hike in dangerous game country, the 10 mm is purely a range-thing for me. And the entire appeal of it is to experience true .357 magnum performance in an autoloader! So naturally, only the truly hot loads appeal to me!

9 mm and .45 ACP have my other niches covered nicely.

--Ray
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Old 12-20-2013, 21:09   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Arnold Kuhl View Post
"I don't bother with underwood ammo as it's tough to get and over-priced,"

Never have had any trouble getting UW ammo. Gets here in 2 days. Yes, the JHP's are not always in stock, but the FMJ's usually are. Their prices are very reasonable. Compare them to those at gun stores sometime. $27/box for UW 180gr. FMJs. $37/box for Am. Eagle Federal at LGS.

AK
That $27 a box is from the underwood site, not including shipping. Their prices have definitely came down since I last looked and more grains in 10mm are available. If I didn't reload I'd have to grab some as competing brands are still higher priced.
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Old 12-20-2013, 21:10   #20
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I have to add after reading some folks telling you to get aftermarket parts. DO NOT change recoil spring or anything for that matter. The last thing you want to do is start adding aftermarket or non-stock parts in order to come to a solution.

It's either a gen 4 issue, a bad glock which is very rare or it's the Pierce grips/bad mag springs.

This is sound methodology, for sure. The OP doesn't want to add any more unnecessary variables to the equation, until the problem is identified! Good advice!

Once the OP settles in, however, if his 10 mm shooting will be mostly at the extreme end of the performance spectrum, he may indeed want to go to a stronger RSA and spring weight. I've already sheared one locking block pin shooting Double Tap's 135 Grain (1600 FPS, 767 Ft/Lbs.) Nosler ammo, with a converted G21, using a LWD SS Captive Guide Rod and 22 Lb. ISMI Recoil Spring.

Just saying...

--Ray
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