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Old 11-16-2013, 18:50   #1
Self-Defense Only
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U.S. Govt. Has A Very Long History Of Screwing Over Veterans

You won't believe what our wonderful country has done to our veterans - at least going back to World War I. I'll bet you a nickel that you didn't know about this history.

Check it out!

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Old 11-16-2013, 19:19   #2
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Why would you bring up such ancient history? Why focus on the few negative things and completely ignore the many good things?

Don't even bring up that BS about not learning from the past.
Sure mistakes have been made, but they are not the norm. So why focus on them?

Your thread title is a lie because the government does not have a long history of "screwing over" veterans, only a very few isolated incidents. Otherwise they'd never get anyone to serve in the military.

Have you ever been in the military?

..

Last edited by JBnTX; 11-16-2013 at 19:27..
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Old 11-16-2013, 19:28   #3
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Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
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Old 11-16-2013, 19:30   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Why would you bring up such ancient history? Why focus on the few negative things and completely ignore the many good things?

Don't even bring up that BS about not learning from the past.
Sure mistakes have been made, but they are not the norm. So why focus on them?

Your thread title is a lie because the government does not have a long history of "screwing over" veterans, only a very few isolated incidents. Otherwise they'd never get anyone to serve in the military.

Have you ever been in the military?

..

This ^^^^^
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Old 11-16-2013, 19:30   #5
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
You a Vet?
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Old 11-16-2013, 19:32   #6
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Those who forget the past are condemned to repeat it.
Really? That's the only excuse you can come up with?

Why not blame it on the republican party or tell us all about how the founding fathers would not approve of our government today.

Have you ever been in the military?

I did 21 years active duty and I take offense at your underhanded swipe at the US government and your using the US military to do that dastardly deed.
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Old 11-16-2013, 19:37   #7
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I served RA Aug 1970 to Feb 1974.

There are more than a few isolated incidents of the VA not honoring their obligations to veterans. In this case, that lie resulted in the government taking military action against U.S. citizens and veterans. I think it stinks that you find that ok.

In our lifetime a lot of the promises made to us have been empty. Remember how hard it was for Agent Orange victims to get treatment?

I am a lawyer who attempted to help veterans, but the VA system is designed so that even if I were to be paid by a not for profit, which got donations from companies like Coca Cola, the government would not allow us to help vets appeal their claims.

Yes, sir, I am not some punk that just fell off the boat. I do know exactly what I am talking about, and I bled for this country personally. I am vested here. The video has value to anyone except you. People, look at our government taking military action against us. Do you find that OK? Do you really find it that preposterous today?

Answer this question, why did the Dept. of Homeland Security need a billion hollow points? Give me a legitimate reason for that? Hollow points? That's 3 for every American citizen. Why is all of that surplus military equipment being sent back from Afghanistan and donated to your local sheriff's department? Apparently, either I am a bit paranoid, or you are a bit unfazed by reality. Take your pick.

I'm not angry in the slightest about these things. Just wanted to point out a very interesting piece of history that has relevance today, as far as I can see.

You guys seem to be saying, so what, it's not relevant today. Really?

Last edited by Self-Defense Only; 11-16-2013 at 19:49..
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Old 11-16-2013, 19:42   #8
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Oh hell! I guess another anti government, hippy ass, libertarian has put me in my place.

..

Last edited by JBnTX; 11-16-2013 at 19:44..
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Old 11-16-2013, 20:26   #9
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I'm not angry in the slightest about these things.
Really?
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Old 11-16-2013, 20:32   #10
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Look, this thread started out with me just wanting to share information that I believed people could connect the dots in their own way, and that they would find it interesting, based on their own perspective. You guys pushed, and pushed, and made me feel like I had to come up with justifications for my position. Yes, I do have strong feelings that the VA could do more to help people. And, I don't want to live in a totalitarian military state. That being said, I don't think we're there yet, and we probably won't get there in my lifetime. So no, I don't pose a threat of any kind. I'm not hostile.

But I can justify sharing that information with you. That was all I was attempting to convey. Of course, you never understood why I posted the information in the first place, so how could you possibly understand my explanation, and that I am not hostile, nor am I ready to take action of any kind. Merely sharing a point of view with concrete examples that even you could follow.

Just the facts, sir. Calling 'em like I see 'em, for what that perspective is worth.
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Old 11-16-2013, 20:47   #11
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While the government isn't opening fire on vets; they are screwing over vets on a daily basis.

The VA serves a purpose. The VA does do it's job. The VA does not do it's job well, by any definition of the word.
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:12   #12
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The VA does not do it's job well, by any definition of the word.
That is not true!

I wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for the VA hospital in Dallas, Texas. Sure they have a lot of faults, but they work miracles with the limited budget they have to work with.

Why is it that people like you can only find fault with everything in this country? Why don't you start a thread and tell us everything you hate about this country. It will do you good to get all that off your chest.
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:18   #13
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...I do have strong feelings that the VA could do more to help people.
Everything needs to be put into perspective.

For every one person that has a bad experience with the VA there's probably a hundred that have a good experience.

That doesn't give you any right to condemn the entire organization. The VA does a lot of good, why can't you focus on that?
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:26   #14
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...And, I don't want to live in a totalitarian military state. That being said, I don't think we're there yet, and we probably won't get there in my lifetime.
Right there is the purpose of your thread. It was an attempt to make people think we live in some kind of "totalitarian military state" as evidenced by your reference to the treatment of veterans over 70 years ago.

If you fear the US government so much why not run off to Canada? You do not have to live in fear of an evil government.

You America haters just torque my cojones.
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:28   #15
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Because of the improvement in technology, we now know a lot more than we ever knew before, about the things that go wrong - with everything. And, the larger something is, the more likely people have been personally touched by one of those things that went wrong.

Yes, the VA does wonderful work sometimes. But my father suffered a military disability in 1946, and he couldn't get it recognized until I fought on his behalf with the VA, and he got his 100% service connected disability recognized in 2002 - now how many years is that? 56 years! I listened to stories from the day I was born, about him getting his back broken while moving tank shells in the Army. The VA declined his claim on 3 separate occasions prior to my involvement, and on 2 prior appeals. They said there was no record in his medical file of him being injured while on active duty, but when I obtained his files, and went through them, it was documented right there in his medical records.

Yup, that's what we're doing, just dragging down the wonderful USA. You got us. Must be commies or something. Get a grip, man. From a moral perspective, if we see things that are not being done correctly, are we supposed to just shut our mouths and be good soldiers like Lt. Calley? Don't say anything negative, because it may harm morale - like, the guy leading us is taking us into a trap. Just remain quiet and be a good soldier.

Jeez. To me, if you see something that has been done that is morally wrong, you look at it good and hard, so that you can learn from it - and how not to repeat the mistake. That's how I was trained to operate in the military. Apparently, according to your view, we aren't supposed to do that. We're just supposed to keep quiet, and walk into the minefield, like a good soldier would. Can't do it that way. Sorry. LOOK OUT FOR THAT TRIP WIRE IN FRONT OF YOU!

If the information disturbs you, why don't you just look away, rather than criticizing those of us who want to share what we believe to be relevant information to others who may or may not share our perspective.
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:29   #16
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
That is not true!

I wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for the VA hospital in Dallas, Texas. Sure they have a lot of faults, but they work miracles with the limited budget they have to work with.

Why is it that people like you can only find fault with everything in this country? Why don't you start a thread and tell us everything you hate about this country. It will do you good to get all that off your chest.
it's funny how editing a post down makes it lose it's context, isn't it?

They provide an invaluable service to some. The flip side is that I recieve a notice almost every six or seven months informing me that a computer containing my personal information has been lost/stolen/hacked nd I get the same packet of information about how to tell if my identity has been stolen.

In recent years, with the ramp up of new veterans coming into the system; the VA has been regularly under evaluating disability claims which usually has a snowball effect on the veteran.

How many veterans have been potentially exposed to AIDs and other blood borne diseases from recieving care through the VA?

The GI Bill program is a back logged nightmare; which places a new level of stress on veterans in college and usually has a negative impact on their scholastic performance.

the list goes on and on... the VA does it's job, but they do it marginally at best.

What ever meds the VA has you on, they need to spread it around. I'd love to be so blissfully blind were I could see no wrong.
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:31   #17
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Look, this thread started out with me just wanting to share information that I believed people could connect the dots in their own way, and that they would find it interesting, based on their own perspective.
Thank you for sharing. You are new, thus you do not know that the topic comes up regularly. The history of the event is usually dissected and discussed heatedly, at times. So, the topic is an old one for us.
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You guys pushed, and pushed, and made me feel like I had to come up with justifications for my position.
Hardly, sir.
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
Yes, I do have strong feelings that the VA could do more to help people.
More efficiently, too.
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
And, I don't want to live in a totalitarian military state.
I don't either.
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
That being said, I don't think we're there yet, and we probably won't get there in my lifetime. So no, I don't pose a threat of any kind. I'm not hostile.
I believe I questioned your denial of anger.
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But I can justify sharing that information with you.
Alright...
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
That was all I was attempting to convey.
I'm trying to connect that dot.
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
Of course, you never understood why I posted the information in the first place, so how could you possibly understand my explanation, and that I am not hostile, nor am I ready to take action of any kind. Merely sharing a point of view with concrete examples that even you could follow.
That even I could follow, your attitude is showing? Careful...
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Originally Posted by Self-Defense Only View Post
Just the facts, sir. Calling 'em like I see 'em, for what that perspective is worth.
We'll see...
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:40   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Why would you bring up such ancient history? Why focus on the few negative things and completely ignore the many good things?

Don't even bring up that BS about not learning from the past.
Sure mistakes have been made, but they are not the norm. So why focus on them?

Your thread title is a lie because the government does not have a long history of "screwing over" veterans, only a very few isolated incidents. Otherwise they'd never get anyone to serve in the military.

Have you ever been in the military?

..
They always screw over veterans. They tried not to pay them their dues in the Revolutionary War. You may recall that there was a war fought over it, and it was actually the first mobilization of the continental forces since the Revolution and helped definitively push the U.S. away from the Articles of Confederation. It was called Shays' rebellion.

But hey, what the flip would I know about the military or its history.
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Old 11-16-2013, 21:41   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Maggy View Post
While the government isn't opening fire on vets; they are screwing over vets on a daily basis.

The VA serves a purpose. The VA does do it's job. The VA does not do it's job well, by any definition of the word.
I sometimes think there are too many chiefs in the system, too many striving to 'improve the system' by exclusion.
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Old 11-16-2013, 22:04   #20
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
That is not true!

I wouldn't be alive today if it wasn't for the VA hospital in Dallas, Texas. Sure they have a lot of faults, but they work miracles with the limited budget they have to work with.

Why is it that people like you can only find fault with everything in this country? Why don't you start a thread and tell us everything you hate about this country. It will do you good to get all that off your chest.
I'll concur with ya' here. The VA Hospitals are, by and large, staffed with people who actually care about their patients, in my experience.
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Everything needs to be put into perspective.

For every one person that has a bad experience with the VA there's probably a hundred that have a good experience.

That doesn't give you any right to condemn the entire organization. The VA does a lot of good, why can't you focus on that?
Funny you should mention that. I agree with ya' here, too, but 'tis a shame we don't try to take this stance on other issues, like, say, the influence of Islam or the contribution of homosexuals to society, like Alan Turing.
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Right there is the purpose of your thread. It was an attempt to make people think we live in some kind of "totalitarian military state" as evidenced by your reference to the treatment of veterans over 70 years ago.

If you fear the US government so much why not run off to Canada? You do not have to live in fear of an evil government.

You America haters just torque my cojones.
Canada also sucks in its attempts to control and influence its citizens.

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I sometimes think there are too many chiefs in the system, too many striving to 'improve the system' by exclusion.
Well measured pragmatism, Russ.

Have a good night, gentlemen.
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