GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.

 
  
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-31-2013, 11:58   #121
whoops dude
Senior Member
 
whoops dude's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 539
I feel bad for the cop. I agree that the shooting was justified but it's gotta make you feel bad on some level to find out that it was a BB gun.
__________________
Firearm reviews, philosophy, shooting and more!

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


Deuteronomy 15:11
You cannot follow Christ and not care about others.
whoops dude is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 12:36   #122
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,117
Blog Entries: 64
I believe I'll start with your avatar...

Cop Talk

Is that just bravado?

You've never been surrounded by a pile of empty brass fired at another human being to save your life or the lives of others.

Your words say you abhor the thought of firing the rounds needed to accumulate that pile of empty brass.

You need to reconcile the two before the time you need to make that decision. Wait, before you roll your eyes and say, "WTF do these internet idiots know, anyway," consider that some may have personally made these decisions, or have seen what happens when one does not make the decision soon enough. I'm in the latter group.

You're in Cop Talk. The members of the LE family here are not "internet tough guys". They are the real thing. Most all are Cops in the true sense of the word. The rest are getting there. They wear different color uniforms, police, sheriff, troopers, marshals, corrections, just about the whole family is here.

Many of them are FTO's, Field Training Officers, guys with years of street experience that they teach to the rookies, laterals, and, of course, the "knowitalls".

A smaller number are also accredited instructors in law enforcement and law enforcement related subjects. They bring street experience blended with the technical and legal sides into classroom settings.

You come into Cop Talk questioning why an officer did what he did. You come in questioning the number of rounds used to stop an assailant. As I said earlier, you come in with an avatar and then tell us about your personal carry firearm that contradicts your emotional (; ) objections.

And your Glock 34, why are you carrying a Glock Target Pistol with that lighter trigger? You admit you've never been through any stress fire training. Do you know what adrenaline is going to do to your fine motor skills? I'll tell you, it's going to **** with them like you can't even imagine in your worst nightmare. But, you know all that, right?

By the way, I'm not a cop. I do know these guys quite well. I know other cops. I've worked with cops over a 30+ year period, great ones, good ones, okay ones and not so good ones and down right bad officers/deputies/agents. I know what makes them function. You don't.

Question: "Do you want to learn?" If you do, save this thread onto your computer. Read it over and over and over. The basic lessons are all in this thread.

What is your real issue? Why did he continue shooting? Or that he was cleared?

You say, "if i had to shoot and then dumped a mag i would go to jail for OVER use of force." Like others have said, it would depend on the circumstances. My personal opinion is that you, with your current mindset, would screw the pooch if you fired more than a few rounds. You'd blurt out, "I didn't mean to!!!"

Then they'd find your avatar. That matches the "high capacity", "light" trigger weight G34.

Of course any defense that your actions were the same as law enforcement's in similar situation, that you studied law enforcement's reactions to threats and based your mindset on those, this thread shoots that one in the ass.

And your statement that you would fire twice and then seek cover to evaluate the situation, that would contradict your firing more than a few rounds before fleeing.

So, yes, your chances if you exceed what you have admitted right here in this thread might be slimmer.

And the training, like I mentioned above, you admit to not having, add that to the avatar, the precision trigger pistol, the comments here, the emoticons above and ,

By the way, are you still carrying on your expired carry permit?
Quote:
my new carry license is....
Quote:
reason for what? 400 apps a day?

id say so, the town i live in never has murders,


there was once 4 murders in like a month here.


i hate oil people, some of them are such savages
Sure hope not...
Quote:
Expired License
Quote:
IF YOUR LICENSE HAS EXPIRED, DO NOT CARRY CONCEALED!
If the license has expired, it is not a valid license. It is a criminal offense to carry a concealed weapon without a valid license. A license holder must be able to produce a valid concealed weapon license upon demand at all times while carrying concealed. An expired license CANNOT be renewed. You will need to start the Application process as a NEW APPLICANT and complete all required testing.

If your license expires during the time your renewal application is being processed, DO NOT CARRY CONCEALED. An expired license is not valid. You cannot carry concealed until you receive the new license.
But from the thread, sounds like you might be.

And, yes, there are North Dakota cops here in Cop Talk.

So, kswiss, I do hope you have a better understanding now...
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 13:41   #123
volsbear
Lifetime Membership
IWannaBeSedated
 
volsbear's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Illinois
Posts: 12,061
/thread.
__________________
"Fast is fine. But accuracy is final."

"He'd look better with lividity" - BlueIron

Black Rifle Club - RRA-PSG
S&W Club - 22227
volsbear is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 14:06   #124
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post
Some random thoughts...

It's always good that there is a positive conclusion to the investigation and the BG's motivation is uncovered (in this case it appears to be a suicide by cop, as related by family members).



Otherwise, the regular GNG band members of the USS TitanticallyAntiLEO would be calling for the LEO's head and slandering.

Also, I'm surprised so far we haven't heard the "It's only a BB gun" and "couldn't the Officer just shoot it out of his hand."
There are always ways that could be improved in a situation. One could argue that he could have said, "Freeze, mother..f" and see what the guy did. But in my observation the guy seemed drunk and non compliant and then they said he was not going back to jail so the suicide by cop fits to a tee. I am sure the leo remembers that all the time.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool songs:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool car:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
JuneyBooney is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 17:00   #125
trdvet
Senior Member
 
trdvet's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Watching You.....
Posts: 2,000
Quote:
Originally Posted by txleapd View Post
So.... You know that you'd do a better job? Interesting....
Just typical internet bravado running at the mouth. The only brave part of these people are their fingers.
__________________
Disclaimer: The opinions given DO NOT reflect the opinions, views, policies, and/or procedures of my employing agency. By viewing this post you agree to indemnify myself and my employing agency and hold them harmless from all claims and damages.
trdvet is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 17:28   #126
Customtle
Senior Member
 
Customtle's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Indiana
Posts: 366
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswiss View Post
im not going to condemn him for defending himself but seriously?

16 ROUNDS?!?!


looked like they all went into the back of the guys head!!

why does he feel the need to dump a mag into him?

2 or 3 or 4 shots and then see if hes still coming at you! if i had to shoot and then dumped a mag i would go to jail for OVER use of force.

this guy wont, hes an LEO and will get the BOTD

he probably died after the first 2 rounds.

so again why 16 effing rounds???
Its called Fire to Retreat to Cover IE You shoot your ass off until you have cover between you and your assailant. This officer chose his car He shot until he felt like he had some cover and felt safe to make the distress call and hold tight till back up got there.
__________________
Big Dawg #1539
Customtle is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 17:36   #127
fg17
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Posts: 495
Not a LEO, just an old bouncer. I can relate to the fear that officer felt. Years ago while working a bar myself and another bouncer witnessed some men arguing in the lot. one of the men went to his car took out a pistol, looked just like the S&W 5906 that I owned at the time. He racked the slide and tucked in his waist band and put his shirt over it. I walked up to the man, put my hand on his chest and asked if he had a gun under his shirt. The man looked at me and said F you and grabbed the pistol, I held his gun hand and hit him with my free hand. my buddy tackled him to the ground. A couple of his friend's tried fight us and we took care of that. We should have called the police right off. Turns out it was not a real gun but a working replica of a S&W 9mm, even the police that came thought it was real at first. To this day I wonder what the heck that guy was thinking.
fg17 is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 17:39   #128
G-34
Senior Member
 
G-34's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: North Dakota
Posts: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
By the way, are you still carrying on your expired carry permit? Sure hope not...But from the thread, sounds like you might be.

And, yes, there are North Dakota cops here in Cop Talk.

So, kswiss, I do hope you have a better understanding now...


not expired, renewal begins 180 days BEFORE expiration boss.

so yes, i am still carrying on my VALID carry permit, just so you know, ( or anyone wondering for that matter)
__________________
"I'm back and ready to do battle with the dark forces that infest this forum." - JBnTX

"There is nothing so terrible as ignorance in motion.."
-Skyhook
G-34 is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 21:42   #129
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,117
Blog Entries: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswiss View Post
not expired, renewal begins 180 days BEFORE expiration boss.

so yes, i am still carrying on my VALID carry permit, just so you know, ( or anyone wondering for that matter)
Really...
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswiss View Post
me either, i will continue to carry if they draw this out past my license expiration, especially if they are going to deny my right to carry by way of wait time.

i dont care if applications have gone up 457% (yes, 457%, thats not a typo) its not my problem, its theirs.

concealed means concealed!!
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswiss View Post
and go without protection? judged by 12 or carried by 6?

you decide
Okay....
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 21:46   #130
RussP
Moderator
 
RussP's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Central Virginia
Posts: 44,117
Blog Entries: 64
Hmm, I see you're off line now. Guess you'll respond to
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
I believe I'll start with your avatar...

Cop Talk

Is that just bravado?

You've never been surrounded by a pile of empty brass fired at another human being to save your life or the lives of others.

Your words say you abhor the thought of firing the rounds needed to accumulate that pile of empty brass.

You need to reconcile the two before the time you need to make that decision. Wait, before you roll your eyes and say, "WTF do these internet idiots know, anyway," consider that some may have personally made these decisions, or have seen what happens when one does not make the decision soon enough. I'm in the latter group.

You're in Cop Talk. The members of the LE family here are not "internet tough guys". They are the real thing. Most all are Cops in the true sense of the word. The rest are getting there. They wear different color uniforms, police, sheriff, troopers, marshals, corrections, just about the whole family is here.

Many of them are FTO's, Field Training Officers, guys with years of street experience that they teach to the rookies, laterals, and, of course, the "knowitalls".

A smaller number are also accredited instructors in law enforcement and law enforcement related subjects. They bring street experience blended with the technical and legal sides into classroom settings.

You come into Cop Talk questioning why an officer did what he did. You come in questioning the number of rounds used to stop an assailant. As I said earlier, you come in with an avatar and then tell us about your personal carry firearm that contradicts your emotional (; ) objections.

And your Glock 34, why are you carrying a Glock Target Pistol with that lighter trigger? You admit you've never been through any stress fire training. Do you know what adrenaline is going to do to your fine motor skills? I'll tell you, it's going to **** with them like you can't even imagine in your worst nightmare. But, you know all that, right?

By the way, I'm not a cop. I do know these guys quite well. I know other cops. I've worked with cops over a 30+ year period, great ones, good ones, okay ones and not so good ones and down right bad officers/deputies/agents. I know what makes them function. You don't.

Question: "Do you want to learn?" If you do, save this thread onto your computer. Read it over and over and over. The basic lessons are all in this thread.

What is your real issue? Why did he continue shooting? Or that he was cleared?

You say, "if i had to shoot and then dumped a mag i would go to jail for OVER use of force." Like others have said, it would depend on the circumstances. My personal opinion is that you, with your current mindset, would screw the pooch if you fired more than a few rounds. You'd blurt out, "I didn't mean to!!!"

Then they'd find your avatar. That matches the "high capacity", "light" trigger weight G34.

Of course any defense that your actions were the same as law enforcement's in similar situation, that you studied law enforcement's reactions to threats and based your mindset on those, this thread shoots that one in the ass.

And your statement that you would fire twice and then seek cover to evaluate the situation, that would contradict your firing more than a few rounds before fleeing.

So, yes, your chances if you exceed what you have admitted right here in this thread might be slimmer.

And the training, like I mentioned above, you admit to not having, add that to the avatar, the precision trigger pistol, the comments here, the emoticons above and ,

So, kswiss, I do hope you have a better understanding now...
later, huh...
__________________
Freedom has a taste to those who fight and almost die, that the protected will never know.

"Comment is free, but facts are sacred." C.P. Scott, 1921
RussP is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 22:45   #131
Top_Shot_31
Senior Member
 
Top_Shot_31's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Midwest
Posts: 357
Quote:
Originally Posted by RussP View Post
I believe I'll start with your avatar...

Cop Talk

Is that just bravado?

You've never been surrounded by a pile of empty brass fired at another human being to save your life or the lives of others.

Your words say you abhor the thought of firing the rounds needed to accumulate that pile of empty brass.

You need to reconcile the two before the time you need to make that decision. Wait, before you roll your eyes and say, "WTF do these internet idiots know, anyway," consider that some may have personally made these decisions, or have seen what happens when one does not make the decision soon enough. I'm in the latter group.

You're in Cop Talk. The members of the LE family here are not "internet tough guys". They are the real thing. Most all are Cops in the true sense of the word. The rest are getting there. They wear different color uniforms, police, sheriff, troopers, marshals, corrections, just about the whole family is here.

Many of them are FTO's, Field Training Officers, guys with years of street experience that they teach to the rookies, laterals, and, of course, the "knowitalls".

A smaller number are also accredited instructors in law enforcement and law enforcement related subjects. They bring street experience blended with the technical and legal sides into classroom settings.

You come into Cop Talk questioning why an officer did what he did. You come in questioning the number of rounds used to stop an assailant. As I said earlier, you come in with an avatar and then tell us about your personal carry firearm that contradicts your emotional (; ) objections.

And your Glock 34, why are you carrying a Glock Target Pistol with that lighter trigger? You admit you've never been through any stress fire training. Do you know what adrenaline is going to do to your fine motor skills? I'll tell you, it's going to **** with them like you can't even imagine in your worst nightmare. But, you know all that, right?

By the way, I'm not a cop. I do know these guys quite well. I know other cops. I've worked with cops over a 30+ year period, great ones, good ones, okay ones and not so good ones and down right bad officers/deputies/agents. I know what makes them function. You don't.

Question: "Do you want to learn?" If you do, save this thread onto your computer. Read it over and over and over. The basic lessons are all in this thread.

What is your real issue? Why did he continue shooting? Or that he was cleared?

You say, "if i had to shoot and then dumped a mag i would go to jail for OVER use of force." Like others have said, it would depend on the circumstances. My personal opinion is that you, with your current mindset, would screw the pooch if you fired more than a few rounds. You'd blurt out, "I didn't mean to!!!"

Then they'd find your avatar. That matches the "high capacity", "light" trigger weight G34.

Of course any defense that your actions were the same as law enforcement's in similar situation, that you studied law enforcement's reactions to threats and based your mindset on those, this thread shoots that one in the ass.

And your statement that you would fire twice and then seek cover to evaluate the situation, that would contradict your firing more than a few rounds before fleeing.

So, yes, your chances if you exceed what you have admitted right here in this thread might be slimmer.

And the training, like I mentioned above, you admit to not having, add that to the avatar, the precision trigger pistol, the comments here, the emoticons above and ,

By the way, are you still carrying on your expired carry permit? Sure hope not...But from the thread, sounds like you might be.

And, yes, there are North Dakota cops here in Cop Talk.

So, kswiss, I do hope you have a better understanding now...
Winner, by knockout in the very first round...ANNNNNNNDDDDDD STILL, CopTalk Champion of the World

RUSS "The Bus" P!
__________________
Quote:
Fast forward 6 months for the DUI trial. Prosecutor is reviewing the booking room video and asks me why I am moon-walking while the drunk offender is hopping around in slow motion in a big white suit.
Top_Shot_31 is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 23:02   #132
libarts.tech
Charles Wagoner
 
libarts.tech's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Norman, OK
Posts: 159
I think it's safe to conclude that this LEO was in the right and did what he had to do.

Also, kswiss is full of ****.

Last edited by libarts.tech; 10-31-2013 at 23:02..
libarts.tech is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 23:34   #133
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by libarts.tech View Post
I think it's safe to conclude that this LEO was in the right and did what he had to do.

Also, kswiss is full of ****.
The only thing that many would wonder is why he shot so many times but we did not see into the vehicle from the video. From what I have seen over the years race does play into these cases. I saw a White leo shoot a Black teenager when his firearm accidentally went off and he went to jail but when he had previously shot a White there was no outcry. I do wonder how this would have played if the family did not come out and say what they did and if the old lunatic was a minority.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool songs:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool car:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
JuneyBooney is offline  
Old 10-31-2013, 23:42   #134
Kilrain
Señor Member
 
Kilrain's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: On the road to Shambala
Posts: 2,150
Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The only thing that many would wonder is why he shot so many times but we did not see into the vehicle from the video.
But you saw the frame capture I posted taken from the video, right?
__________________
The hog of the forsaken,

He is the pork of crime

- Michael Hurley
Kilrain is offline  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:26   #135
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
But you saw the frame capture I posted taken from the video, right?
I noticed the pellet gun in his hand. If it was real he would have not been able to shoot like that but that is my opinion only. From the video it was obvious the young officer was in fear for his life and the lady officer placed him in the truck because she was afraid of him being railroaded. It really is an interesting video to dissect.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool songs:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool car:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
JuneyBooney is offline  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:29   #136
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 9,079
Looks like a justifiable shoot to me. I'm glad the officer is okay. It could have turned out worse if the guy had a real gun. No reload on the officers part!
__________________
When you finish speaking, don't forget to wipe.
NEOH212 is offline  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:31   #137
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 44,880
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
The only thing that many would wonder is why he shot so many times but we did not see into the vehicle from the video. From what I have seen over the years race does play into these cases. I saw a White leo shoot a Black teenager when his firearm accidentally went off and he went to jail but when he had previously shot a White there was no outcry. I do wonder how this would have played if the family did not come out and say what they did and if the old lunatic was a minority.
How many times do you think he should have shot?
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:37   #138
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 9,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by kswiss View Post
im not going to condemn him for defending himself but seriously?

16 ROUNDS?!?!


looked like they all went into the back of the guys head!!

why does he feel the need to dump a mag into him?

2 or 3 or 4 shots and then see if hes still coming at you! if i had to shoot and then dumped a mag i would go to jail for OVER use of force.

this guy wont, hes an LEO and will get the BOTD

he probably died after the first 2 rounds.

so again why 16 effing rounds???


Yes, 16 rounds. You can't know what that officers level of fear was at that point but I'd venture to say it was pretty darn high! If I were in that situation in the officers shoes, I'd probably keep firing until I felt the threat was no longer a threat of causing me any harm.

If it took every last round in my gun to do that then so be it. I didn't cause the problem but I'd certainly be making sure it ended because I'd be making sure I went home safe, just like the officer did.

If he fired 15 rounds there would always be someone asking why not 14 rounds. If he fired 14 rounds, there would always be someone asking why not 13 rounds, ect.

The officer was justified in his actions so the number of shots fired is totally interleave. Despite what many people (want) to believe, not every cop that discharges his or her weapon in the line of duty is doing so in malice.
__________________
When you finish speaking, don't forget to wipe.

Last edited by NEOH212; 11-01-2013 at 02:39..
NEOH212 is offline  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:43   #139
NEOH212
Diesel Girl
 
NEOH212's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: North East Ohio
Posts: 9,079
I'll put it this way. If I was that officer and I saw the driver with the gun in his hand that way, I'd be making damn sure he couldn't get out of the vehicle to use it on me.

When someone is that stupid (or brazen) to raise a gun up like that during a traffic stop, only one thing should come into the mind of the officer.......


Neutralize and Survive and that he did, and rightfully so.
__________________
When you finish speaking, don't forget to wipe.

Last edited by NEOH212; 11-01-2013 at 02:43..
NEOH212 is offline  
Old 11-01-2013, 02:56   #140
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 16,801
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
How many times do you think he should have shot?
Two or three shots at that range would have probably finished him. But the leo was in fear for his life so I am not going to second guess him. .
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool songs:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.

Cool car:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 signatures.
JuneyBooney is offline  

 
  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:27.




Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,043
284 Members
759 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 16:42