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Old 10-26-2013, 15:29   #26
msu_grad_121
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fist Of Goodness View Post
Edit: we just stopped teaching the magazine exchange (replacing a partial with a full mag with a round in the chamber).
Isn't that what a tactical reload is? It's what I understand it to be.

I don't look at it as criticism either, per se. There's nothing wrong with having your mind prepared on the chance you might go through something like this, and that's what I see this as.

I wouldn't criticize, because it turned out okay. Just like I won't criticize the officer I used to work with who decided to go hands on with a knife wielding hostage taker. It turned out for the best, so I've got nothing to say. Same here. I wouldn't have tried to wrestle a knife away from a hostages' throat, and I would have swapped mags after the initial volley, but both situations were resolved successfully, so I'll keep my yap shut.

Prayers for the officer, hope he gets any and all help he needs.
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Old 10-26-2013, 16:29   #27
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Remarkable poise by the officer on his radio call-out, given the circumstances.

At least now the part about the Social Security number makes sense.
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Fast forward 6 months for the DUI trial. Prosecutor is reviewing the booking room video and asks me why I am moon-walking while the drunk offender is hopping around in slow motion in a big white suit.
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Old 10-26-2013, 16:32   #28
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I love the comments to videos like these:

Quote:
Murray Machado 1 day ago

**** these terrorist-police we want u 666 ****s out now and we have special plans for u real soon so watch the fuc out. kill this murdering cop! do u want to know a little secret, felons carry guns bc they know something that we dont about these pigs. they know that it is waaaaaaay too easy to go to prison these days all on the lie of non-american or a pig. this is how history books were written,resistance from the king,ring any bells? america is a non government nation,but what went wrong?
Uh, yeah skippy. Will that be after you climb out of your folks' basement or after you get done with the midnight shift at Burger King?
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Old 10-26-2013, 16:45   #29
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Uh, yeah skippy. Will that be after you climb out of your folks' basement or after you get done with the midnight shift at Burger King?
I was actually going to remark that most of the comments on the video seemed to be pretty favorable for once. Always has to be a "that guy."
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Fast forward 6 months for the DUI trial. Prosecutor is reviewing the booking room video and asks me why I am moon-walking while the drunk offender is hopping around in slow motion in a big white suit.
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Old 10-26-2013, 17:05   #30
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World of difference taking a situation and discussing options that might be better than the choices made in the heat of battle, realizing things rarely take the optimal path under stress... Unless you talk about these situations after the fact and now that you have the time to analyze them to the Nth degree, come up with additional options that you just might remember if you are ever on a similar situation because you thought about them, discussed them today.

That's not criticizing, that's learning from someone else's experience, combined with decades worth of the collective wisdom of colleagues.

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Old 10-26-2013, 17:08   #31
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Yeah I get it. He could have done a tactical reload.

But as was mentioned, he wasn't at slide lock, so we can cut the guy a little slack I think. I am sure his training officers have gone over the issue with him.

Other than that, who here thinks they could have done better given the same situation?
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Old 10-26-2013, 17:20   #32
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Anyone notice how the news media couldn't resist a dig against the officer? They had to mention that on a prior occasion, his Department had tried to fire this officer for excessive force, but ultimately he was vindicated. Ok, well, is he was cleared of wrongdoing, then why mention it? Just to stir the pot. The media is not our friend.
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Old 10-26-2013, 18:41   #33
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Yeah, I saw that too.
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Old 10-27-2013, 01:08   #34
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Officer had a history-of being retaliated against by dept.

Amazing back story of how the UAPD and it's chief attempted to screw over this officer in the past.

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/ua-of...tated-1.399356
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Old 10-27-2013, 06:19   #35
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Originally Posted by ronduke View Post
Amazing back story of how the UAPD and it's chief attempted to screw over this officer in the past.

http://www.ohio.com/news/local/ua-of...tated-1.399356
Never going to won that battle, he needs to lateral to another department. Chief can harass him easily in real time, he has to respond by lawsuit in slow motion.

Needs new chief or new job.

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Old 10-27-2013, 06:31   #36
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Burnette had sought damages from UA and police Chief Paul Callahan, who had fired Burnette in September 2009 after the officer was accused of using excessive force while making an arrest.

An arbitrator in June 2010 overturned Callahan’s decision and ordered Burnette reinstated to the department with back pay.

However, before (Burnette) was allowed to return to duty, Callahan retaliated by ordering him to undergo psychological and medical exams, as well as additional training that included attending a firearms recertification course.
Yup, sounds like this chief was truly a monkey's ASH.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:46   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by msu_grad_121 View Post
Isn't that what a tactical reload is? It's what I understand it to be.

I don't look at it as criticism either, per se. There's nothing wrong with having your mind prepared on the chance you might go through something like this, and that's what I see this as.

I wouldn't criticize, because it turned out okay. Just like I won't criticize the officer I used to work with who decided to go hands on with a knife wielding hostage taker. It turned out for the best, so I've got nothing to say. Same here. I wouldn't have tried to wrestle a knife away from a hostages' throat, and I would have swapped mags after the initial volley, but both situations were resolved successfully, so I'll keep my yap shut.

Prayers for the officer, hope he gets any and all help he needs.
We were using both terms for the same drill (depending on what was in vogue at FLETC when the instructors were trained). We starting calling it an exchange because students were confusing it with an emergency reload ( slide lock).

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Old 10-27-2013, 10:27   #38
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Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
...But as was mentioned, he wasn't at slide lock, so we can cut the guy a little slack I think. I am sure his training officers have gone over the issue with him.

Other than that, who here thinks they could have done better given the same situation?
Just to clarify, my comments were not (intended as) critical of his actions. I was noting my observations, and the importance of training how you intend/need to fight.

On that note, how many of you practice for this scenario at the range? I occasionally do at the dept's. range, but that usually gets a lot of quizzical response so I try to save dynamic drills like dumping a mag while backpedalling/taking cover, for outings at my property which is not frequent enough.
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:01   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post
Just to clarify, my comments were not (intended as) critical of his actions. I was noting my observations, and the importance of training how you intend/need to fight.

On that note, how many of you practice for this scenario at the range? I occasionally do at the dept's. range, but that usually gets a lot of quizzical response so I try to save dynamic drills like dumping a mag while backpedalling/taking cover, for outings at my property which is not frequent enough.
I was speaking generally, not specifically about you or anyone else on this thread.

Just throwing it out there as food for thought..
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:42   #40
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However, before (Burnette) was allowed to return to duty, Callahan retaliated by ordering him to undergo psychological and medical exams, as well as additional training that included attending a firearms recertification course.


Hey! Thanks, chief!
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Old 10-27-2013, 22:01   #41
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Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post
On that note, how many of you practice for this scenario at the range?
We do. They even specifically built it into scenarios so that if we don't do a tactical reload during a lull, then we would run out of ammo and go to slide lock in the middle of the next engagement.
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Old 10-27-2013, 22:35   #42
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It looks like backup arrived in under 2 minutes. Probably the longest 2 minutes of his life.
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Old 10-28-2013, 01:11   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4949shooter View Post
Yeah I get it. He could have done a tactical reload.

But as was mentioned, he wasn't at slide lock, so we can cut the guy a little slack I think. I am sure his training officers have gone over the issue with him.

Other than that, who here thinks they could have done better given the same situation?
Totally agree. Everyone knows these things often require some luck. Luckily he didn't need to rely on a tactical reload.

All in all, I think just about anyone would be hard pressed to perform better than he did in that situation
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Old 10-28-2013, 06:04   #44
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Originally Posted by Ducowti View Post
On that note, how many of you practice for this scenario at the range?

I know I don't. This is a good time to renew that skill. With the fat Glock mags and my short stubby fingers, it's not the most natural act for me. All the more reason to practice, I guess.

As far as I'm concerned, the LEO did just fine.
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Old 10-28-2013, 09:48   #45
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I can attest that most folks certainly don't practice movement while shooting drills simply because of the range rules or the range they have to use.

That is why I am glad to have my NLT pistol to fill in that gap. Shooting and moving was a big weak area in my training cycle.

Folks, if you want to commit suicide, have the courage or at least the balls to off yourself rather than make someone do it for you.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:32   #46
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Originally Posted by msu_grad_121 View Post
Am I missing something? I didn't see him go to slide lock.
Why would you wait until you're out to reload?
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:34   #47
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did anyone else notice that the officers responding to help him had black bands on their badges? or was that just me seeing things...
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:59   #48
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Folks, I give you the value of the body worn camera, for both training and investigation purposes.
My only problem with it is you can't see what he does. You see the reaction to it and the words beforehand. But the officer reacted quicker than I could see what the suspect did.

If I missed the gun showing in the video, let me know, but I watched it a couple times and didn't see it.

Just a limitation to the body cameras.

I think the LEO did a good job considering.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:25   #49
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My only problem with it is you can't see what he does. You see the reaction to it and the words beforehand. But the officer reacted quicker than I could see what the suspect did.

If I missed the gun showing in the video, let me know, but I watched it a couple times and didn't see it.

Just a limitation to the body cameras.

I think the LEO did a good job considering.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:13   #50
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At normal speed, it could be a limitation. However, as Kilrain posted, you can see the pistol and it sure looks real to me.
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