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Old 11-01-2013, 17:26   #51
RJ's Guns
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Do you have a source for this revelation?

How do you explain those of us that have fired literally thousands of suppressed rounds through the HK USP45 Tactical and an Octane 45 suppressor with no damage whatsoever?

In fact, my USP45 Tactical still looks brand new?

There's something in the OP's story that we're not being told?
He seems to be going to a lot of trouble to discredit HK's customer service?

..

I agree, how would a suppressor create a “huge increase in back pressure.” I would think (and I may be wrong as I have a very limited frame of reference with regards to suppressors) that a solid metal barrel would create more back pressure than a perforated/baffled suppressor. The projectile may be under pressure for a longer duration of time but how would that be any different in theory, than an example of a rifle with an 18 inch barrel and a 24 inch barrel. I have not detected any “huge increase in back pressure” shooting rifles with longer barrels.

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Old 11-02-2013, 16:32   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Do you have a source for this revelation?

How do you explain those of us that have fired literally thousands of suppressed rounds through the HK USP45 Tactical and an Octane 45 suppressor with no damage whatsoever?

In fact, my USP45 Tactical still looks brand new?

There's something in the OP's story that we're not being told?
He seems to be going to a lot of trouble to discredit HK's customer service?

..
Ha do tell buddy.... I'm fine with their service, as I stated. The call taker was not 100% paying attention but the armorer who called me when my gun arrived was professional and very willing to help and we even shot the **** on the phone for awhile.

My only complaint was the call taker getting my problem description wrong and the fact that the most widely used and recommended pistol built for suppressor use out of the box is only warrantied for two old, loud, and out dated suppressors.

I paid the $160 to get it fixed as that was the warranty deal and I knew that going in. My issue is they should update the warranty.

I don't know what it is with HK fanboys, its always "the OP isn't telling the whole story" .....yeah I have time to come online and fabricate a story to which I will gain nothing. And lets not forget I own multiple HK's and they are still my favorite go-to gun. I just call it like I see it.
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Old 11-02-2013, 21:02   #53
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Originally Posted by Fireman1291 View Post
My only complaint was the call taker getting my problem description wrong and the fact that the most widely used and recommended pistol built for suppressor use out of the box is only warrantied for two old, loud, and out dated suppressors.
1. As I stated, the call taker's mistake is inexcusable.

2. Loud and outdated or not, your gun wasn't designed to work with the suppressor you were using. That's the plain and simple undeniable truth.

You can't blame HK engineering for your using a device on your pistol that it wasn't ever designed for. It's obvious there was too much assist from the suppressor which caused the damage to your gun.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman1291 View Post
My issue is they should update the warranty.
Why should they? You screwed your gun up as a result of using it outside of it's design limits by using a unapproved and untested suppressor. They shouldn't have to eat the cost of your mistake.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman1291 View Post
I don't know what it is with HK fanboys, its always "the OP isn't telling the whole story" .....yeah I have time to come online and fabricate a story to which I will gain nothing
1. Nobody is saying you made anything up but there are always three sides to every story. Your side, their side, and what actually happened.

2. It has nothing to do with HK fanboys. People just see the mistake you made and you seem unwilling to accept that you caused your own problem and your blaming HK for it instead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman1291 View Post
I just call it like I see it.
Maybe so but I call it how it actually is.

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Last edited by NEOH212; 11-02-2013 at 21:04..
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:17   #54
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You seem to know everything. You must know then that the "tested and warrantied" KAC pistol can just happened to be the same can that SOCOM had already purchased. It's HEAVY as in it doubles as a hammer heavy. The neilson device, material selection, baffles, construction and welding is outdated. It's quite simple really, I know now that no matter what can is on the end of a gun (approved or not) that the recoil spring on the host weapon should be replaced sooner than recommend. Yes we all know that the booster assembly will cause accelerated wear, it's just surprising it happened as fast as it did. One would think the KAC would cause more wear due to the weight of the suppressor.

They still should step up their game. Companies like Silencerco get this. They don't have in writing anywhere that if you accidentally smash your can in your safe door that they will replair it free if charge(not me lol) or that they should upgrade the Ospreys to the new front cap and baffle design but they did....for free, including shipping. What I'm getting at is there are companies out there who have OUTSTANDING customer service and it works, its the best business model around. They go outside their "approved warranty" and go above and beyond and the word of mouth advertising they get in return costs way less to them and is more affective than a magazine ad. I've had similar experiences with SA and S&W.

Ill stick with my opinion and you yours. I gave you the entire TRUTH in how it happened and have nothing to hide. I still like all my HK's but if someone asks me what host they should run HK won't be the first I recommend.
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Old 11-03-2013, 05:53   #55
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I agree that HK needs to update their "position" on suppressor use on their pistols.

I have tried to get information from HK, but I can't seem to get past the legal/warranty type response.

HK's so called "approved suppressor list" is old and outdated. A ton of new suppressors have come on the market since then, and ALL are superior to the old, heavy KAC suppressors.

I don't see how any of them could do anymore damage or cause more pressure than the old KAC suppressors.

Right now HK sells more suppressor ready pistols than any other manufacturer, but has an outdated warranty position on suppressor use. What do they think we're doing with those pistols?

If HK wants to maintain their current position on suppressor use, then they need to produce an updated list of approved suppressors, update their warranty or quit making suppressor ready pistols.

Personally, I don't think Fireman1291's pistol was damaged by suppressor use. I have the same pistol with a lot more rounds through it and it still looks brand new. All of those rounds have been reloads, a few hotter than normal.

My best wild ass guess would be that the damage was caused by an overloaded and overly powerful round that forced the slide back too far. But, that's just my opinion.
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Old 11-03-2013, 08:55   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Do you have a source for this revelation?
Seriously?
You don't know that a suppressor works by trapping, slowing and cooling the expanding gases exiting the barrel with baffles? That a side effect of this trapping is more of the gases are directed back into the barrel and action?
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:02   #57
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Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
I don't see how any of them could do anymore damage or cause more pressure than the old KAC suppressors.
Older suppressor designs tend to use canister volume to trap and cool the gases. New suppressor designs tend to use more complex baffles in a smaller volume can. New baffle designs tend to be quieter because they have more efficiency i.e.: they're trapping more energy that has to be released somehow (remember Newton and his pesky laws?).
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Old 11-03-2013, 09:16   #58
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Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
Running a suppressor on a handgun is extremely hard on the recoil system due to the huge increase in back pressure. ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
Seriously?
You don't know that a suppressor works by trapping, slowing and cooling the expanding gases exiting the barrel with baffles? That a side effect of this trapping is more of the gases are directed back into the barrel and action?
Once again, do you have a source for your assertion that suppressors are "extremely" hard on the recoil system due to the "huge" increase in back pressure.

Can you define "extremely" and "huge"?
Your words, not mine.

Suppressors do in fact increase the pressure forces on a firearm, but I don't think any modern properly built and properly used suppressor does so to the extent that it will damage a pistol in just a few thousand rounds.

If it does then where are all the damaged HK's, Glocks, Beretta and SIG pistols? How would suppressor manufacturers even stay in business if their products were destroying pistols in just a couple of thousand rounds?

Suppressors are the biggest selling NFA item in this country.
Where are the horror stories of firearms being damaged or destroyed by these suppressors?
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Old 11-03-2013, 11:18   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NMGlocker View Post
Older suppressor designs tend to use canister volume to trap and cool the gases. New suppressor designs tend to use more complex baffles in a smaller volume can. New baffle designs tend to be quieter because they have more efficiency i.e.: they're trapping more energy that has to be released somehow (remember Newton and his pesky laws?).
Jody, I love you, but Newton didn't have squat to do with energy. Thermodynamics came way after him.


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Old 11-03-2013, 16:01   #60
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To quote from a poster on another site:

"HK has always supported their customers better than Glock supports their chambers."
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Old 11-04-2013, 00:39   #61
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fireman1291 View Post
You seem to know everything. You must know then that the "tested and warrantied" KAC pistol can just happened to be the same can that SOCOM had already purchased. It's HEAVY as in it doubles as a hammer heavy. The neilson device, material selection, baffles, construction and welding is outdated. It's quite simple really, I know now that no matter what can is on the end of a gun (approved or not) that the recoil spring on the host weapon should be replaced sooner than recommend. Yes we all know that the booster assembly will cause accelerated wear, it's just surprising it happened as fast as it did. One would think the KAC would cause more wear due to the weight of the suppressor.

They still should step up their game. Companies like Silencerco get this. They don't have in writing anywhere that if you accidentally smash your can in your safe door that they will replair it free if charge(not me lol) or that they should upgrade the Ospreys to the new front cap and baffle design but they did....for free, including shipping. What I'm getting at is there are companies out there who have OUTSTANDING customer service and it works, its the best business model around. They go outside their "approved warranty" and go above and beyond and the word of mouth advertising they get in return costs way less to them and is more affective than a magazine ad. I've had similar experiences with SA and S&W.

Ill stick with my opinion and you yours. I gave you the entire TRUTH in how it happened and have nothing to hide. I still like all my HK's but if someone asks me what host they should run HK won't be the first I recommend.


I don't see Silencerco on the list of HK approved suppressors.

I'm assuming you have a engineering degree and know if the specs of that suppressor match the approved ones?

Further assuming, you have documented hard laboratory data that shows the Silencerco suppressor isn't any harder on the gun then the ones on the approved list?

If not, you have no room to complain and have no room to blame HK. It's not opinion. It's a fact. You may have given all the facts but you sure seem unwilling to accept the fact that your actions caused the failure.


Did it ever occur to you there is a very good reason no other suppressors on the market are approved for use on your pistol other than what's on the list?

If you want to play with suppressed guns and use the suppressor of your choice and not one the manufacture specifies:

1. Purchase a firearm that is approves use of your choice suppressor.

2. Use what you have and don't complain when your gun breaks and stop blaming the manufacture for something you knowingly screwed up.


That's the logical truth. You may not like it or want to accept it but it is what it is. The gun was used with a device it was not designed for. Of course something is going to fail.

You keep bringing up warranty. You should have understood you voided your warranty the moment you used a unapproved suppressor. Like it or not, that's the truth. Why in the world should a company warranty something that failed that wasn't their fault?

Companies that would warranty things like that would go out of business or at the very least, they would loose lots of money doing it. There would always be some idiot that broke their product because the did something with it that it wasn't designed to do. There wouldn't be any logic in that.

I love it when people use something outside of what it was designed to do, break it in the process, and then ***** that the manufacture should have made it to do such and such.






This reminds me of the idiots that shoot lead bullets in a Glock then run jacketed ammo without cleaning the barrel. The gun blows up in their hand and they blame Glock even though it states in the manual not to use lead. Of course they know better than the engineer that designed the gun.





Any respectable company won't warranty their product when it's used outside of what it was designed and tested to do. Nor should they. If you don't like that HK isn't changing and testing their products for every new product that comes onto the market, move on to a different brand and stop complaining your problem is somehow their fault. You sound ridiculous.



You need to accept your mistake and stop blaming HK. You can lead a horse to water but you can't make it drink. This is certainly proof to that end.
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Old 11-04-2013, 00:47   #62
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Somebody correct me if I'm wrong but the last time I checked with HK they only approved KAC and Brugger & Thommet suppressors. Unless this list has changed, those are the only two manufactures they approve for use on their handguns.

From what I can tell this is still the current info.
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Old 11-04-2013, 00:49   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patriot328 View Post
To quote from a poster on another site:

"HK has always supported their customers better than Glock supports their chambers."
Quote:
Why should HK warranty thier guns which have had unauthorised mods done. No different than voiding warranty if you shoot reloads.
Another quote from another site.

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Old 11-04-2013, 00:52   #64
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Oh shoot,


I just filled my diesel pickup with gas even though the manual states diesel only. Now the engine is trashed.

Damn junk pickup. They should warranty it and give me a brand new engine.





(satire)
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Old 11-04-2013, 00:56   #65
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What do you mean I can't shoot 20 gauge in my 12 gauge. Firearms manufactures should move with the times and make their 12 gauge guns shoot 20 gauge too.

Since I know better than the engineer that designed it, I'll just go ahead and shoot 20 gauge in it anyhow.



Bang! Boom! Pow!


My gun blew up......




Damn it! Stupid gun company. They make junk! They should warranty my gun even though it says in the manual and on the gun 12 gauge.

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Old 11-04-2013, 05:02   #66
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Originally Posted by NEOH212 View Post

Did it ever occur to you there is a very good reason no other suppressors on the market are approved for use on your pistol other than what's on the list?

You should have understood you voided your warranty the moment you used a unapproved suppressor...
Your post brings us to the nut of the matter.

Why aren't the most popular suppressors approved by HK?
It's way past time that they updated their "approved suppressor list".

Why do they sell suppressor ready pistols in the US but only warranty them for use with outdated, over priced and impossible to find suppressors?

Is there something "different" about HK pistols that limits their suppressor use to just two brands of suppressor?

Why would all the current most popular American suppressor manufacturers make their products incompatible with the most popular suppressed pistols on the market?

HK refuses to comment on this matter, at least in my phone calls.

..

Last edited by JBnTX; 11-04-2013 at 05:03..
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Old 11-05-2013, 10:54   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JBnTX View Post
Your post brings us to the nut of the matter.

Why aren't the most popular suppressors approved by HK?
It's way past time that they updated their "approved suppressor list".

Why do they sell suppressor ready pistols in the US but only warranty them for use with outdated, over priced and impossible to find suppressors?

Is there something "different" about HK pistols that limits their suppressor use to just two brands of suppressor?

Why would all the current most popular American suppressor manufacturers make their products incompatible with the most popular suppressed pistols on the market?

HK refuses to comment on this matter, at least in my phone calls.

..
I'll discuss this with you since the other guy can't hold an adult conversation. He thinks I have something against HK, maybe he can't read my tone right since this IS the internet. Sometimes it's hard to jude.

When I was on the phone with the armorer he agreed that this list was old and outdated and agreed that they should evaluate other newer suppressors and update the old warranty policy. He assumed two things have prevented this. Too much on their plate, and not enough guns like mine have come in for them to raise eyebrows.

Hell I only use factory ammo but that doesn't mean it wasn't loaded improperly causing the initial jam. Who knows. All I know is I knew and accepted the risks, and paid for my gun to be fixed. No big deal. But that still doesn't let them off the hook for an out of date warranty in a sea of other manufactures who market and sell suppressor ready guns.

"No Compromise" huh…..
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Old 11-05-2013, 13:35   #68
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Originally Posted by Fireman1291 View Post
...

When I was on the phone with the armorer he agreed that this list was old and outdated and agreed that they should evaluate other newer suppressors and update the old warranty policy. He assumed two things have prevented this. Too much on their plate, and not enough guns like mine have come in for them to raise eyebrows.
At least they acknowledge the problem. That's a start.

Check out my thread on this subject over at hkpro.com.
There are some very interesting replies.
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Old 11-05-2013, 14:55   #69
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At least they acknowledge the problem. That's a start.

Check out my thread on this subject over at hkpro.com.
There are some very interesting replies.
oh boy lol
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Old 11-05-2013, 15:35   #70
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Hey there Fireman, how goes it up in Land'O? Things are nice here on the bay...


Two things:

#1 Did you use a Supressor NOT approved by HK?
- Yes, so don't be surprised.

#2 At around 3:30 did you actually say they need to RE-EVALUATE the springs for OTHER suppressors here in the US?

A) Be glad they fixed it at all!!!!!

B) Stop sayign stuff like that. It's not like they really want to sell guns in the US, let alone to civilians!!!!!


Last edited by Aceman; 11-05-2013 at 15:37..
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