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Old 10-26-2013, 23:01   #76
ND40oz
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Originally Posted by tehan2 View Post
0-62mph in the M135i xDrive 5.1 seconds
0-62mph in the VW golf R w/ 4motion 5.3 seconds

difference in price is $7200


and if we're going to compare cars that aren't yet available in the states, lets include the Mercedes A45 AMG
it's about $7500 more than the M135i too
If we're talking about a MK VII 296 hp Golf R, it's not available in the states or anywhere for that matter right now, so I'm not sure how you can ascertain a price difference. The NA MK VI 256 hp variant does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. The M135i xDrive does 0-62 in 4.9 seconds and will continue to pull all the way up to 155 mph. Plus the N55 has plenty of headroom to tune.
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Old 10-26-2013, 23:58   #77
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The Mazdaspeed 3 is a 4 door (5 if you count the hatch) hatchback with a fairly large trunk.

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I know. Sorry, tried to be succinct and brief and just made it confusing. Since I'm at a point in my life where my car doesn't have to be super flexible, I'm thinking my next car will be something somewhat impractical, hence the BRZ vs. MX-5. If I needed the practicality, I'd be looking for a hot hatch as well, like the Mazdaspeed 3 I mentioned.
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Old 10-26-2013, 23:59   #78
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Originally Posted by ND40oz View Post
There's plenty of room back there, you'd be fine:

The Okie Corral
Width isn't the issue. As much as they try, there simply isn't enough headroom/legroom to pretzel 6'2" of orangutan into the back of one of those things.
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Old 10-27-2013, 00:16   #79
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Width isn't the issue. As much as they try, there simply isn't enough headroom/legroom to pretzel 6'2" of orangutan into the back of one of those things.
I'm 6' and I used to sell cars. I can't count how many times I crawled into the back of a car and said, "See there's plenty of room, I'm 6' tall and I fit just fine."

It wasn't a lie, but it wasn't the truth either, if you get what I mean.
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Old 10-27-2013, 02:05   #80
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Originally Posted by devildog2067 View Post
I'm 6' and I used to sell cars. I can't count how many times I crawled into the back of a car and said, "See there's plenty of room, I'm 6' tall and I fit just fine."

It wasn't a lie, but it wasn't the truth either, if you get what I mean.
Oh yeah. I've been on the receiving end of that one more than a few times. You know how Phi (1.618) is supposed to be the Golden Ratio for human proportions, like height divided by leg length or arm length divided by forearm length, etc.? I think I come somewhere around 1.25. Just a ridiculous leg/torso ratio. I tried sitting in the back of Fiat 500 just for laughs once and the only way I could even begin to fit was if my knees acted as bolsters for the driver's seat.
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Old 10-27-2013, 07:12   #81
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You are missing the point.

The "hot hatch" and the 2+2 coupe (and sports cars) are different markets with different buyers. You cant put someone in the back of the GenIV camaro for 2 hours.

People use the hot hatches as daily drivers that can hold more than one passenger in comfort, get decent mileage, all weather vehicles, have room in the back to haul stuff, and are still fun to drive.

It is a completely different market.
Bingo. For many people a sport hatch is a great compromise of a vehicle. Some people can't afford a weekend sports/ muscle car and a mundane daily driver. Many other people wouldn't want to even if it's financially feasible for them. Who wants to only drive a fun car a few hours on the weekend and spend their commute 5 days a week in an econobox?

There's some great driving little cars being made now. What you get for the money in handling, power and convenience is great. Don't get me wrong it's also a great time for American muscle cars. The amount of power you can get at an affordable price is amazing. However many of those vehicles are two door, and while many have exceptional mpg's considering the power they make, their mpg's aren't as good as most sport compact/ hatches.
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Old 10-27-2013, 09:27   #82
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Originally Posted by RHVEtte View Post
Width isn't the issue. As much as they try, there simply isn't enough headroom/legroom to pretzel 6'2" of orangutan into the back of one of those things.
You wont like the BRZ then. For tall people it sucks.

Also, if you search another thread, I had one for a week (well actually a Toyota GT86 as rental car). Neat car, but definitely needs more power and more tire.
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Old 10-27-2013, 14:30   #83
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Old 10-27-2013, 15:20   #84
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You wont like the BRZ then. For tall people it sucks.

Also, if you search another thread, I had one for a week (well actually a Toyota GT86 as rental car). Neat car, but definitely needs more power and more tire.
I test drove one and actually liked it a lot. Though to be fair, I didn't drive it a super long distance or for several days, so I'm not sure how it is to live with. But the feel I got of it(s front seat) was that it was snug like a glove. Tight, but in a way that means they cut out unnecessary space, not cramped like a too small pair of jeans. Does that make sense?
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Old 10-27-2013, 15:43   #85
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If we're talking about a MK VII 296 hp Golf R, it's not available in the states or anywhere for that matter right now, so I'm not sure how you can ascertain a price difference. The NA MK VI 256 hp variant does 0-60 in 5.8 seconds. The M135i xDrive does 0-62 in 4.9 seconds and will continue to pull all the way up to 155 mph. Plus the N55 has plenty of headroom to tune.
With the manual transmission, the Golf R hits 62 mph from a stop in 5.3 seconds. The DSG will do the same sprint in just 4.9 seconds with computerized precision on its way to the Golf R's electronically limited top speed of 155 mph.

The Okie Corral


http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchb...-35827269.html
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Old 10-27-2013, 15:56   #86
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Do you look at a track as a series of corners connected by dragstips or as a series of dragstrips connected by corners?
I look at road course straights as features that would benefit from the addition of a few cones. And I see all cars as momentum cars.
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Old 10-27-2013, 18:44   #87
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I look at road course straights as features that would benefit from the addition of a few cones. And I see all cars as momentum cars.
All cars are, but power cars against less powerful cars mean dirvers can make up for mistakes in the corners with power.
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Old 10-27-2013, 18:47   #88
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Originally Posted by RHVEtte View Post
I test drove one and actually liked it a lot. Though to be fair, I didn't drive it a super long distance or for several days, so I'm not sure how it is to live with. But the feel I got of it(s front seat) was that it was snug like a glove. Tight, but in a way that means they cut out unnecessary space, not cramped like a too small pair of jeans. Does that make sense?
I drove one in Germany for a week.

I took a few drives through black forest. Very tight roads. The car was fun, but needed more grip (speed limits are insane on backroads...62mph on a road in the USA that would be 25mph).

The car wasnt much of an autobahn cruiser. Really, 170-180kmh is all I really felt the GT86 was composed at. Beyond that, it got really choppy.
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Old 10-27-2013, 18:55   #89
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With the manual transmission, the Golf R hits 62 mph from a stop in 5.3 seconds. The DSG will do the same sprint in just 4.9 seconds with computerized precision on its way to the Golf R's electronically limited top speed of 155 mph.

http://reviews.cnet.com/coupe-hatchb...-35827269.html
And where can you purchase this MK VII Golf R and what is it priced at? That was my whole point in him trying to claim the M135i and A45 AMG were Euro only. The MK VII Golf R is currently not available anywhere and in that tested trim will be Euro only.

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Old 10-27-2013, 20:25   #90
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Old 10-28-2013, 00:59   #91
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I had a bolton Mazda speed 3 for awhile 315 whp and 360 wtq was decently fun and wasnt bad on gas.Parts were kinda expensive for what they were and I wasnt super fond of the short gearing in the 6spd.anyone whos been to the east coast of florida knows how much the stop and go traffic sucks

The Okie Corral
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Old 10-28-2013, 04:49   #92
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I will be in the market next summer for something along these lines. I have narrowed the selection down to a Subaru Forester XT or the Impreza WRX. Something in the 2005 range. Anyone with experience with either of those?
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Old 10-28-2013, 07:58   #93
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I will be in the market next summer for something along these lines. I have narrowed the selection down to a Subaru Forester XT or the Impreza WRX. Something in the 2005 range. Anyone with experience with either of those?
The XT will be much more of an all around car. The WRX more of the boy racer.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:09   #94
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I live my life a quarter mile at a time....


Vtec Song - YouTube
I see nothing but an old guy, trolling the high school for girls, jealous that the young kids playing the vtec song with their pumper up audio systems are getting the young girls...
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:09   #95
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The recent Fiat Abarth vs Ford Focus ST thread inspired me to start this. Let's talk about cars that are economical to purchase, get reasonably good mpg's, and have a performance aspect and are fun to drive.

About a week ago we traded a 2010 VW GTI for a 2014 Focus ST. The GTI was a good car. Fun to drive, averaged about 26 mpg with mixed driving but I'm really impressed with this Focus. Ford has really done a nice job on this car. Great quality so far, and much more fun to drive than the gti. Great power and handling.

We briefly considered a brz/ frs but they're just to small for us. Also the Fiesta ST. They get great milagr and I'm sure are a blast to drive but are pretty small. The Golf R looks great but just to expensive for a small hatch IMO, at least for me.

Ford has done a nice job on the fost and fist and has them priced very competitively.


What cars do you own or are interested in that fit this niche?
I love the "hot hatch"/"cheap and cheerful" concept if they are done right. A big part is the price. I'm not going to pay an exorbitant amount for a "hot hatch" and I'm not going to buy one if I lose much of the utility (ie if the rear seats are removed or are unusable, or if the cargo space is taken up with roll cages or whatever).

The new hot Focus is a good example (as far as I know) of one done right. I like the Civic STI (even though it is not really a hatchback) but it needs premium fuel supposedly.

And of course there are the Mitsubishi Evo and Subaru WRX. But some of those have gotten insane on the pricing.

But, making any of them sound right is a chore. They all do sound like supercharged weed eaters.

Of the two you mention, I think the Fiat could actually fit inside the Focus.
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Old 10-28-2013, 08:20   #96
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When I am in Germany, I use a company car and there is typically a choice.

For autobahng driving, the BMW320d is my favorite combination.

If I have be in cities (i.e. park anywhere) my favorite is the Audi A3.

Other than all the pickup trucks and SUVs around where I live in the USA that make a sport of cutting off small cars, for 98% of what I use a car for an A3 quattro would fit the bill.

My next daily driver car will probably be a Q5 (or a Macan). In the USA (at least where I am) the SUV is better in traffic.
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:49   #97
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The M135i xDrive does 0-62 in 4.9 seconds and will continue to pull all the way up to 155 mph. Plus the N55 has plenty of headroom to tune.
You seem to know a lot about BMWs, do you drive one?

I might consider driving a BMW if they made a pickup, I can't fit all my gear in a hot hatch. Maybe something like this.

The Okie Corral
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:35   #98
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All cars are, but power cars against less powerful cars mean dirvers can make up for mistakes in the corners with power.
My experience is confined to solo events, mostly autoX. So my perspective is higher-power cars are generally not competing directly with lower-power cars. There are sometimes big differences in how the power is delivered (eg. AWD turbo car vs a RWD N/A car) within class, though.

Strategy in the STi is very different from strategy in the Vette, but in both cases looseness adds time. So I think all else equal, power creates more mistakes than it makes up for. Power certainly has a way of hiding problems from view, but that is not the same as solving them.

A numerical example of high power vs. low might be to compare two SCCA autoX car/driver combinations running the same PAX on a given course. Sticking to streetable cars, maybe an HS Mini vs. an ASP Viper. Roughly a 400% torque/weight difference. The ASP driver would have to keep his line pretty tight to beat the HS driver’s PAX. Not easy in a Viper.

It is true the PAX spread would widen if there were a very open feature on the course (which you don’t normally see in national SCCA events). Kind of similar to a Z28 running relatively well at the Ring against cars with better suspensions.

When I started shooting in USPSA, it took a while to figure out why I couldn’t beat fat old dinosaurs bumbling around the stage, when I could move about 10X faster and shoot reasonably well. The time on field courses is in transitions in and out of shooting positions, and in having your cognition completely dialed in. Just like in the car.
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Old 10-28-2013, 15:54   #99
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If I was going to buy a pre-owned hot hatch, it would be a low mileage '98-'02 BMW MCoupe.

The Okie CorralThe Okie Corral

http://www.metacafe.com/embed/429023/

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

http://jalopnik.com/258496/the-jalop...on-bmw-m-coupe

BMW reintroduced the MCoupe for model years 2006-2008, but the car was not near as funky.

The Okie Corral

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m/2006/road-test.html
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Old 10-28-2013, 16:35   #100
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If I was going to buy a pre-owned hot hatch, it would be a low mileage '98-'02 BMW MCoupe.

The Okie Corral

http://www.metacafe.com/embed/429023/

http://www.caranddriver.com/reviews/...take-road-test

http://jalopnik.com/258496/the-jalop...on-bmw-m-coupe

BMW reintroduced the MCoupe for model years 2006-2008, but the car was not near as funky.

The Okie Corral

http://www.edmunds.com/bmw/m/2006/road-test.html
Looks like someone crushed a vw bug a little bit.
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