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Old 10-26-2013, 08:33   #141
ysr_racer
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Has anyone suggested you kill him and eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti?

Or am I the first?
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Old 10-26-2013, 08:55   #142
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Originally Posted by ysr_racer View Post
Has anyone suggested you kill him and eat his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti?

Or am I the first?
One guy did say make a citizens arrest, which would likely mean you'd have to kill him.


I don't know if he was joking or not.
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:07   #143
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Originally Posted by W420Hunter View Post
This thread is way out of hand.
Update?
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:35   #144
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Originally Posted by Fear Night View Post
From the LEO's perspective, that is correct. They may not know the full story yet.

However, this scenario is referring to the perspective of a landowner. If the landowner has not given a single soul permission to hunt or trespass on his land, then there is without a doubt a crime being committed. The landowner will know the full situation.
Maybe, maybe not.

Much depends on the law. In my state it's not a crime if not clearly posted or the person hasn't been previously told by the land owner to keep off.
Also, I've run into this type of peeing match (neighbors) where the "land owner" was incorrect in what was his land. He went out, confronted the hunter, and decided it was a good idea to try to wrestle his shotgun away from him to "prove he was trespassing"...

I kid you not.
Some laws require "intent" as an element of the crime.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-26-2013, 09:55   #145
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Originally Posted by *ASH* View Post
OH LAWD !!!1

a topic so dear to me .

i have posted several times bout idiot scumbag hunters coming on my land settting traps , hunting when its clearly posted bout 50 signs the whole way around my property .

deputies caught a few ,
i have to take time to go take up the traps . i collect a large number of them and then turn in for cash at scrap yard ..

now i have several 4 wheeler trails i made thru the land which is bout 90 acres where they poach on my land . lately spike strips have worked good . and yeah local sheriff knows about them . hes tired of it , im tired of it . hes tired of me telling them im tired of it . so i do what i do . i catch you its on cuzz.

And, that's twice in the past week I've agreed with posters with whom I'm normally at odds. I've noticed it's getting colder here, perhaps Hell has frozen over....



Anyway, I fully agree with you, Ash. I own 154 acres located at the eastern end of the state. Since I don't go out there that often, it's full of trespassing *********s. I hate them all, and laughed my ass off when I saw the windshield to a UTV smashed on one of my trails. Hope they got screwed up good when they wrecked.

Yes, for the little emo folks - I mean that. I hunt, as often as I can, and I don't trespass. The two times I've done it, were because I got lost and didn't intend to - wasn't hunting either. But yeah, those *******s leave litter all over the place, tear my land up with ATV's, hunt game on land that "I" pay for (and work my ass off to afford it), all for free.

Screw them, and screw anyone who thinks I should do less than call the conservation officer when I catch them. As another poster mentioned - if you want to hunt on my land, you coulda bought it when it was for sale. Oh wait - it IS for sale right now, and none of those *******s want to buy it. Go figure. But yeah, I hate a trespassing poaching idiot, and hope bad things happen to them.

As far as confiscating stands that they knowingly put up on MY land, while trespassing - I'll take them down, and put them up where I currently hunt. If the trespassing moron wants to make an issue, I'll happily give him my personal information so that he can try and file a criminal complaint on me. But, he'll have to do it from jail, since I'll either arrest him myself or have the conservation officer/local LE come down and do it. I'd love to hear the prosecutor on that:

"So, you want to file a complaint about a landowner who took your stands/camera/whatever, while you were trespassing and poaching on his farm?"

Yeah, ok. Don't know how it works it other states, but in Kentucky, that's not gonna go over too well....for the poacher, that is.

Sorry for the long rant, but like Ash - I hate trespassers, and won't abide them or any defense of them. If it ain't yours, stay the **** off of it.
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:05   #146
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I've has to deal with trespassing & slobs on my land too. Besides garbage, I've had fire pits from partiers on ATV. I didn't use to post that particular area until it started getting so every visit required me carrying a large trash bag. I've carried a ticket book hoping to run into any slob, no luck so far.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-26-2013, 10:06   #147
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Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
The reason that we all now that story is because how uncommon it is.

How many hunting licenses are sold in the USA per year, and how often do shootouts happen among hunters?
Often.

A lot of folks don't report it - especially country folks. One of the other forums I frequent is a hunting forum. Several posters over the years have reported being shot at, or had incoming fire in their general direction, by trespassers who didn't want to be caught. The typical end result is that the landowner was busy either trying to figure out from where the gunshots were coming, or ducking down, and the trespassers got away.

I've read several accounts of landowners doing basic maintenance (checking stands, cameras, loading feeders, etc), where gunplay was threatened or occurred. Can't say that I can think of any where someone was actually shot, but it happens. Often.

Now that I think of it, one of my coworkers had to deal with someone on his land at gunpoint years ago. Seems the trespasser didn't agree with being told to leave, and threatened my coworker with a gun (told him he was going to shoot him or something like that). Didn't work out well in the end.

Yet another one of my coworkers (before he worked with my agency) was duck hunting (public waters) and was threatened by other hunters over their spot. Guns were threatened then, as well.

So, yeah, it happens, more often than I'd like to hear. I'm an avid hunter, and out quite a bit. It hasn't happened to me yet, but then - I haven't run into a trespasser personally on my land, nor the land I currently hunt. Although, we had some problems with thieves, and another group that burglarized the old house on the farm. Should I be fortunate enough to catch them next time, there WILL be bad things happening to the trespassers. I treat this farm like my own, and well - it's gonna suck for someone.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:31   #148
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Originally Posted by VC-Racing View Post
One of my best buddies( grew up together) is a GW and he's been shot at before while dealing with some scum that poach.

scenario 1 .
I'll concede that theres a good chance that it was a accidental line cross and if the OP makes contact with the hunter and everything goes well ............. Then great, all fine and well ......

scenario 2.
what if he has a confrontation with a nut ( cause I can assure you they are out there) that doesn't care 1 iota whether he trespassed and decides to throw a beat down on the OP or takes the contact as the threat and shoots him ( it happens), then the OP gets to go to the hospital or possibly the morgue , then he or his family has to continually deal with the A-Hole causing problems because he was jailed for trespassing and assault?



YMMV



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You do realize a Game Warden is a LEO? So a Game Warden confronting a poacher is NOT the same thing thing as land owner telling a hunter "You are on private property" vs when GW can take poachers gun, car, cash, hunting lic for decades.....
Or if that scares you too much just leave a note on stand, windshield. (What I would do if he was not there at time as i don't want to have to wait for him.)

You can run into nut anywhere. (heck a bunch online) :0
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:40   #149
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
The hunter may, or may not be committing a crime. Same as the person in town.

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Please. If the hunter is on privately owned land where he doesn't have permission to hunt, he's in the wrong. It's a semantic argument to debate if a crime is being committed or not, and in either case, it's perfectly reasonable (as the land owner) to be cautious in confronting an armed individual that is trespassing.

To compare confronting an armed trespasser to being in the presence of an armed individual in a public setting is like comparing an apple to a Chevrolet. It just doesn't make any sense or have any correlation, hence I continue to disagree with your synopsis of the opinions expressed in this thread..... even though I disagree with said opinions in general.

I'd tend to give people the benefit of doubt that they really don't know they're trespassing and favor laws where intent is required for a conviction. I don't hunt, but I'd really hate to accidentally cross onto someone's property then be arrested for trespassing when I had no intent to do so.
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Old 10-26-2013, 12:57   #150
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Originally Posted by VC-Racing View Post
One of my best buddies( grew up together) is a GW and he's been shot at before while dealing with some scum that poach.

scenario 1 .
I'll concede that theres a good chance that it was a accidental line cross and if the OP makes contact with the hunter and everything goes well ............. Then great, all fine and well ......

scenario 2.
what if he has a confrontation with a nut ( cause I can assure you they are out there) that doesn't care 1 iota whether he trespassed and decides to throw a beat down on the OP or takes the contact as the threat and shoots him ( it happens), then the OP gets to go to the hospital or possibly the morgue , then he or his family has to continually deal with the A-Hole causing problems because he was jailed for trespassing and assault?



YMMV



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Quote:
Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
I'm not sure I understand your question. There are lots of posters here that are stating that they believe that a trespassing hunter could be dangerous to confront. You stated that you believe these posters have a conflicting mind set as they don't consider someone open carrying in town to be a threat. I disagree as someone committing the crime of trespassing could very well be a threat. I don't think anyone in this thread is suggesting that any hunter in the woods should be considered as a threat. Those that are obviously breaking the law, on the other hand, should probably be treated as a potential threat.
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That will be the day when I stroll up to a pack of thieves and treat them like I'M STEALING THE USE OF THEIR LAND. If you leave the house with the intention to hunt, it is ON YOU TO KNOW WHERE YOU ARE. You are responsible for knowing property lines and who owns the land you are standing on.
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Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
If the hunter is on privately owned land where he doesn't have permission to hunt, he's in the wrong. It's a semantic argument to debate if a crime is being committed or not, and in either case, it's perfectly reasonable (as the land owner) to be cautious in confronting an armed individual that is trespassing.

To compare confronting an armed trespasser to being in the presence of an armed individual in a public setting is like comparing an apple to a Chevrolet.
Typical GT.

Be afraid of everyone and everything.

Assume the worst.

Pathetic.
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:45   #151
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
Please. If the hunter is on privately owned land where he doesn't have permission to hunt, he's in the wrong. It's a semantic argument to debate if a crime is being committed or not, and in either case, it's perfectly reasonable (as the land owner) to be cautious in confronting an armed individual that is trespassing.

To compare confronting an armed trespasser to being in the presence of an armed individual in a public setting is like comparing an apple to a Chevrolet. It just doesn't make any sense or have any correlation, hence I continue to disagree with your synopsis of the opinions expressed in this thread..... even though I disagree with said opinions in general.

I'd tend to give people the benefit of doubt that they really don't know they're trespassing and favor laws where intent is required for a conviction. I don't hunt, but I'd really hate to accidentally cross onto someone's property then be arrested for trespassing when I had no intent to do so.
The common denominator is the gun, period.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-26-2013, 13:58   #152
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Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Typical GT.

Be afraid of everyone and everything.

Assume the worst.

Pathetic.


You misquoted me. I'm understanding the concern, not sharing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
The common denominator is the gun, period.
Can you explain the logic you're using that dictates that fear of confronting an armed individual in the commission of a crime without knowledge of their intent should mandate fear of being in the presence of armed individuals in public.

Unless I'm not understanding your point, you're saying that if you don't fear people that open carry in public that you shouldn't fear people carrying a weapon in the commission of a crime or in an activity that appears to be the commission of a crime. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Again, I'm not advocating calling the law on someone rather than making contact with them over an apparent trespassing, but simply stating that I understand the logic behind not being confrontational with someone who is doing something wrong while carrying a gun.
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Old 10-26-2013, 14:01   #153
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Seems like the OP is a kid and doesn't have a clue what to do.


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Old 10-26-2013, 14:03   #154
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Agreed. He farms your land for free while you pay the taxes while he leases out the hunting rights?
lol wow. that farmer is one lucky SOB. if it was me and once my gdad passed I would have told him he's going to have to pay to farm it. this guy is making out like a bandit.
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Old 10-26-2013, 14:10   #155
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Originally Posted by elliotb33 View Post
lol wow. that farmer is one lucky SOB. if it was me and once my gdad passed I would have told him he's going to have to pay to farm it. this guy is making out like a bandit.
Not always. The difference in property taxes here, for land with an agricultural exemption and residential property is huge. Often it is better to lease some land cheap to a farmer for a hay field, than to do it yourself and buy the equipment to do it or pay residential tax rates.

Should he get something for it? Maybe, but it may not be much. However, he does need to assert his ownership of the land to avoid losing it to adverse possession.
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Old 10-26-2013, 14:10   #156
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Originally Posted by wct097 View Post


You misquoted me. I'm understanding the concern, not sharing it.



Can you explain the logic you're using that dictates that fear of confronting an armed individual in the commission of a crime without knowledge of their intent should mandate fear of being in the presence of armed individuals in public.

Unless I'm not understanding your point, you're saying that if you don't fear people that open carry in public that you shouldn't fear people carrying a weapon in the commission of a crime or in an activity that appears to be the commission of a crime. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Again, I'm not advocating calling the law on someone rather than making contact with them over an apparent trespassing, but simply stating that I understand the logic behind not being confrontational with someone who is doing something wrong while carrying a gun.
People are having no issue walking up to an unarmed person who's on their property (person not observed doing anything threatening).
Same conditions, now only add the person has a firearm. Now people are afraid.

Pretty clear, it's the gun that makes the difference.

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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-26-2013, 15:32   #157
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TBO has it right...

But this very thing has happened to me... many times. Before confronting... two things that I have to know:
1. Where is the fella's truck?
2. Do I know the part of my 500 acres good enough that I will not get shot?

Then... when I see the fella's parked truck... I grab my 12 ga. Rossi hammer-double... and sneak to within 150 yards of his position (we have real thick woods). Then... I fire a shot in the air... and yell out... "Hey... you in the tree... please come down and let's talk about why you are hunting on my property." Then I exit.

Then drive straight to the place where the truck will come out on the road. At this point in time, I will be supposedly unarmed (but protected behind my truck)... and not worried unless said hunter can shoot a long-arm out his truck window. With a smile and some good-natured arm-waving... the truck always stops (has to), and we have a parlay. Never have had a problem after this.

This only works on early mornin' deer or turkey hunters... I am not qualified to walk up on an armed man sitting illegally in my woods. But I can talk to him when he comfortably thinks he has made it to freedom... out on the dirt road.

Would not try this at night... with coon hunters. It's dark and I just sneak right up on 'em... and make a loud, unambiguous announcement. Most of the time... the coon hunters will just turn off their flashlights and hunker down in the dark. Then I just fire both barrels up in the air and threaten to shoot their friggin' dogs that everybody hears barking. Coon hunters will holler out that they need to collect their dogs... and will NEVER come back after that threat. That too has never failed.

BTW... I would never shoot a hunting dog... sometimes ya have to act mean.

^..^
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Old 10-26-2013, 15:42   #158
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
People are having no issue walking up to an unarmed person who's on their property (person not observed doing anything threatening).
Same conditions, now only add the person has a firearm. Now people are afraid.

Pretty clear, it's the gun that makes the difference.
That was not what you posted nor is that what I disagree with. Obviously it's far different to confront an armed individual that is trespassing on your land vs one who is not armed.

Quote:
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Just continuing to show some can carry conflicting mind sets.

A man with a gun hunting in the woods is so dangerous a person can't walk up to them and talk.

Yet

The same poster open carrying a gun in town is no threat.
An armed trespasser can be reasonably considered a threat. That has no correlation to someone open carrying unless the OCer is also apparently committing a crime.
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Old 10-26-2013, 16:12   #159
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Is the armed trespasser wearing a ski mask? Carrying a crowbar? Or just on your land, perhaps even mistakenly?

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

Last edited by TBO; 10-26-2013 at 16:25..
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Old 10-26-2013, 16:22   #160
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There is no such thing as an honest mistake, zero probability somebody might be unintentionally on the wrong section of land. Anybody that sets foot on another man's property has only theft, or possibly murder on his mind.<sarcasm>
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