GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-26-2013, 13:45   #151
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,595
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
Please. If the hunter is on privately owned land where he doesn't have permission to hunt, he's in the wrong. It's a semantic argument to debate if a crime is being committed or not, and in either case, it's perfectly reasonable (as the land owner) to be cautious in confronting an armed individual that is trespassing.

To compare confronting an armed trespasser to being in the presence of an armed individual in a public setting is like comparing an apple to a Chevrolet. It just doesn't make any sense or have any correlation, hence I continue to disagree with your synopsis of the opinions expressed in this thread..... even though I disagree with said opinions in general.

I'd tend to give people the benefit of doubt that they really don't know they're trespassing and favor laws where intent is required for a conviction. I don't hunt, but I'd really hate to accidentally cross onto someone's property then be arrested for trespassing when I had no intent to do so.
The common denominator is the gun, period.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 4
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 13:58   #152
wct097
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: VA
Posts: 2,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by M&P15T View Post
Typical GT.

Be afraid of everyone and everything.

Assume the worst.

Pathetic.


You misquoted me. I'm understanding the concern, not sharing it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
The common denominator is the gun, period.
Can you explain the logic you're using that dictates that fear of confronting an armed individual in the commission of a crime without knowledge of their intent should mandate fear of being in the presence of armed individuals in public.

Unless I'm not understanding your point, you're saying that if you don't fear people that open carry in public that you shouldn't fear people carrying a weapon in the commission of a crime or in an activity that appears to be the commission of a crime. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Again, I'm not advocating calling the law on someone rather than making contact with them over an apparent trespassing, but simply stating that I understand the logic behind not being confrontational with someone who is doing something wrong while carrying a gun.
__________________
-wct097
wct097 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 14:01   #153
r3dot
Senior Member
 
r3dot's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Izzerwat
Posts: 2,428
Seems like the OP is a kid and doesn't have a clue what to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
r3dot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 14:03   #154
elliotb33
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Posts: 408
Quote:
Originally Posted by AZ Husker View Post
Agreed. He farms your land for free while you pay the taxes while he leases out the hunting rights?
lol wow. that farmer is one lucky SOB. if it was me and once my gdad passed I would have told him he's going to have to pay to farm it. this guy is making out like a bandit.
elliotb33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 14:10   #155
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,877


Quote:
Originally Posted by elliotb33 View Post
lol wow. that farmer is one lucky SOB. if it was me and once my gdad passed I would have told him he's going to have to pay to farm it. this guy is making out like a bandit.
Not always. The difference in property taxes here, for land with an agricultural exemption and residential property is huge. Often it is better to lease some land cheap to a farmer for a hay field, than to do it yourself and buy the equipment to do it or pay residential tax rates.

Should he get something for it? Maybe, but it may not be much. However, he does need to assert his ownership of the land to avoid losing it to adverse possession.
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 14:10   #156
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,595
Blog Entries: 1


Quote:
Originally Posted by wct097 View Post


You misquoted me. I'm understanding the concern, not sharing it.



Can you explain the logic you're using that dictates that fear of confronting an armed individual in the commission of a crime without knowledge of their intent should mandate fear of being in the presence of armed individuals in public.

Unless I'm not understanding your point, you're saying that if you don't fear people that open carry in public that you shouldn't fear people carrying a weapon in the commission of a crime or in an activity that appears to be the commission of a crime. It just doesn't make any sense to me.

Again, I'm not advocating calling the law on someone rather than making contact with them over an apparent trespassing, but simply stating that I understand the logic behind not being confrontational with someone who is doing something wrong while carrying a gun.
People are having no issue walking up to an unarmed person who's on their property (person not observed doing anything threatening).
Same conditions, now only add the person has a firearm. Now people are afraid.

Pretty clear, it's the gun that makes the difference.

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 4
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
TBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 15:32   #157
Hellraiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 303
TBO has it right...

But this very thing has happened to me... many times. Before confronting... two things that I have to know:
1. Where is the fella's truck?
2. Do I know the part of my 500 acres good enough that I will not get shot?

Then... when I see the fella's parked truck... I grab my 12 ga. Rossi hammer-double... and sneak to within 150 yards of his position (we have real thick woods). Then... I fire a shot in the air... and yell out... "Hey... you in the tree... please come down and let's talk about why you are hunting on my property." Then I exit.

Then drive straight to the place where the truck will come out on the road. At this point in time, I will be supposedly unarmed (but protected behind my truck)... and not worried unless said hunter can shoot a long-arm out his truck window. With a smile and some good-natured arm-waving... the truck always stops (has to), and we have a parlay. Never have had a problem after this.

This only works on early mornin' deer or turkey hunters... I am not qualified to walk up on an armed man sitting illegally in my woods. But I can talk to him when he comfortably thinks he has made it to freedom... out on the dirt road.

Would not try this at night... with coon hunters. It's dark and I just sneak right up on 'em... and make a loud, unambiguous announcement. Most of the time... the coon hunters will just turn off their flashlights and hunker down in the dark. Then I just fire both barrels up in the air and threaten to shoot their friggin' dogs that everybody hears barking. Coon hunters will holler out that they need to collect their dogs... and will NEVER come back after that threat. That too has never failed.

BTW... I would never shoot a hunting dog... sometimes ya have to act mean.

^..^
Hellraiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 15:42   #158
wct097
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: VA
Posts: 2,186
Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
People are having no issue walking up to an unarmed person who's on their property (person not observed doing anything threatening).
Same conditions, now only add the person has a firearm. Now people are afraid.

Pretty clear, it's the gun that makes the difference.
That was not what you posted nor is that what I disagree with. Obviously it's far different to confront an armed individual that is trespassing on your land vs one who is not armed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Just continuing to show some can carry conflicting mind sets.

A man with a gun hunting in the woods is so dangerous a person can't walk up to them and talk.

Yet

The same poster open carrying a gun in town is no threat.
An armed trespasser can be reasonably considered a threat. That has no correlation to someone open carrying unless the OCer is also apparently committing a crime.
__________________
-wct097
wct097 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 16:12   #159
TBO
CLM Number 122
Why so serious?
 
TBO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: NRA Life Member
Posts: 43,595
Blog Entries: 1


Is the armed trespasser wearing a ski mask? Carrying a crowbar? Or just on your land, perhaps even mistakenly?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 4
__________________
"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?

Last edited by TBO; 10-26-2013 at 16:25..
TBO is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 16:22   #160
elsolo
Senior Member
 
elsolo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: socal
Posts: 11,871
There is no such thing as an honest mistake, zero probability somebody might be unintentionally on the wrong section of land. Anybody that sets foot on another man's property has only theft, or possibly murder on his mind.<sarcasm>
elsolo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 16:32   #161
Mayhem like Me
Semper Paratus
 
Mayhem like Me's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 15,169
Blog Entries: 3
Quote:
Originally Posted by wct097 View Post
OP, contact the farmer. Work out a written agreement, ask if he's been hunting and deal with it appropriately. If you don't want him hunting, don't do it. If it wasn't him, post the land and deal with it appropriately.



I'd just go talk to the guy, personally, but I disagree with your synopsis here. A guy open carrying in town is not a threat because he's not doing anything illegal. A guy carrying a gun while committing the crime of trespassing (intentionally or not), is committing a crime and thus could understandably be treated as an armed criminal.
How do you know he's trespassing in this circumstance.. Is the proper signage in place

Sent from my DROID RAZR HD using Ohub Campfire mobile app
__________________
How do you establish intent?
Well when a naked man is chasing a woman down an alley with a butcher knife and a hard on, I figure he's not collecting for the red cross...Inspector H. Callahan

Last edited by Mayhem like Me; 10-26-2013 at 16:32..
Mayhem like Me is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 16:39   #162
Hellraiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 303
I have signage all over my property. "No Trespassing or Hunting"... the vast majority of the border.

In a few key areas... "Trespassers Will Be Violated".... "Trespassers WILL Be Shot... Survivors, Will Be Shot Again"....

And finally coming up the 1/4 mile driveway... and up close to the house... "DO YOU BELIEVE IN THE HEREAFTER?... TRESPASS HERE, AND FIND OUT FOR SURE."

EDIT: Has to do with a vicious dog instance that occurred long ago.

^..^

Last edited by Hellraiser; 10-26-2013 at 16:41.. Reason: Needed it.
Hellraiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 16:47   #163
dryfly
Senior Member
 
dryfly's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: White Mountains NH
Posts: 1,234
Just because you own 90 acres or whatever thf .... and had one or 2 bad experiences with trespassers .... doesn't mean you gotta be a dick to everyone who you THINK is raping your land....

That is unless you have a still or dungeon you are afraid of someone finding.

Last edited by dryfly; 10-26-2013 at 16:50..
dryfly is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 17:03   #164
Hellraiser
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by dryfly View Post
Just because you own 90 acres or whatever thf .... and had one or 2 bad experiences with trespassers .... doesn't mean you gotta be a dick to everyone who you THINK is raping your land....

That is unless you have a still or dungeon you are afraid of someone finding.
You make a good point there, friend...

There is nobody that OWNS land... anybody that is lucky... ALL just temporary caretakers of it.

^..^
Hellraiser is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 18:27   #165
Rabid Rabbit
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 4,125
Just remember to blade when approaching the trespasser.
Rabid Rabbit is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 20:54   #166
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,877


Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Is the armed trespasser wearing a ski mask? Carrying a crowbar? Or just on your land, perhaps even mistakenly?

Sent from my Nexus 4 using Copatalk 4
As you it depends on the state where it occurs, and the time of day(actually if it is at night (more than 30 minutes before sunrise or 30 minutes after sunset). In some states in some circumstances, trespassing and openly carrying and arm and messing about on someone's property could get you legally shot. Think Criminal Mischief at night in the state of Texas. I don't recommend doing anything that could be considered criminal mischief at night on someone else's property in the state of Texas, not do I recommend shooting them for it. It will likely turn out bad for one or both.

As a LEO, you know that any confrontation is potentially dangerous, whether the person is known to be armed or not. Otherwise police would not approach cars the way they do for traffic stops. If a random person will be aggressive with a police officer that is known to be armed, may be wearing a vest, and has the full weight of the law, and lots of armed friends a radio call away; what makes you think the same random person with reasonable suspicion or probable cause to be trespassing armed on their land to will be less likely to be aggressive with a non-LEO uniformed citizen?

Do you not recommend some level of caution?
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-26-2013, 21:26   #167
Bruce M
Senior Member
 
Bruce M's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: S FL
Posts: 20,085
Quote:
Originally Posted by *ASH* View Post
...


off topic they were giving out bacon flavored chapstick at our state fair yesterday .
This may well be the most important item in this thread. Certainly deserving of a thread of its own. Maybe there even ought to be a "bacon" forum here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellraiser View Post
... and sneak to within 150 yards of his position (we have real thick woods). Then... I fire a shot in the air... and yell out... ....
^..^
Hmmm firing a shot into the air.
__________________
Bruce
I never talked to anyone who had to fire their gun who said "I wished I had the smaller gun and fewer rounds with me" Just because you find a hundred people who agree with you on the internet does not mean you're right.

Last edited by Bruce M; 10-26-2013 at 21:27..
Bruce M is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 00:39   #168
JuneyBooney
Senior Member
 
JuneyBooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northern Virginia
Posts: 15,433
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hellraiser View Post
TBO has it right...

But this very thing has happened to me... many times. Before confronting... two things that I have to know:
1. Where is the fella's truck?
2. Do I know the part of my 500 acres good enough that I will not get shot?

Then... when I see the fella's parked truck... I grab my 12 ga. Rossi hammer-double... and sneak to within 150 yards of his position (we have real thick woods). Then... I fire a shot in the air... and yell out... "Hey... you in the tree... please come down and let's talk about why you are hunting on my property." Then I exit.

Then drive straight to the place where the truck will come out on the road. At this point in time, I will be supposedly unarmed (but protected behind my truck)... and not worried unless said hunter can shoot a long-arm out his truck window. With a smile and some good-natured arm-waving... the truck always stops (has to), and we have a parlay. Never have had a problem after this.

This only works on early mornin' deer or turkey hunters... I am not qualified to walk up on an armed man sitting illegally in my woods. But I can talk to him when he comfortably thinks he has made it to freedom... out on the dirt road.

Would not try this at night... with coon hunters. It's dark and I just sneak right up on 'em... and make a loud, unambiguous announcement. Most of the time... the coon hunters will just turn off their flashlights and hunker down in the dark. Then I just fire both barrels up in the air and threaten to shoot their friggin' dogs that everybody hears barking. Coon hunters will holler out that they need to collect their dogs... and will NEVER come back after that threat. That too has never failed.

BTW... I would never shoot a hunting dog... sometimes ya have to act mean.

^..^
Now some of this is clearly the right idea. When they hear the shot go off they will run if doing something wrong.
JuneyBooney is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 01:01   #169
AZ Husker
Senior Member
 
AZ Husker's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Phoenix
Posts: 4,257
I would emphasize that the fault lies with the OP landowner. If he does not even know who is farming his land how can he expect to control who is on that land? In most cases landowners have a contract spelling out what the renter can and cannot do. We raised many cattle on our prime hunting ground and lost a ton of them. Then we also had the hunters with a truckload of dogs running the scent. They are the worst, often cutting fences to follow their dogs. Many issues in this thread.
__________________
Luck will run out, but skill will survive.
AZ Husker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 06:30   #170
purrrfect 10
Senior Member
 
purrrfect 10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Linden, Virginia
Posts: 875
Best to tell the guy that farms your land, you don't want hunters on it. I would start there wait a couple days for them to take their stands out and call the Game Warden. Let him deal with them keep you out of it. If not all gone within a week I would take the stands down myself and give them away.

I would also put up some Posted No hunting sign.
__________________
WAR DOES NOT DETERMINE WHO IS RIGHT, IT DETERMINES WHO IS LEFT
(((((((((((((((((((( •
THAT SAID • ))))))))))))
I'm in the best condition I possibly can be ~ being in this condition...
purrrfect 10 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 07:06   #171
lethal tupperwa
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Virginia
Posts: 11,248


one of the best stories

a guy in a tree stand

land owner walks up

the guy says who do you think you are

I'm hunting here

the land owner says I am the Game Warden that OWNS this land.
__________________
Correctional and Therapeutic Mayhem Administrator EMERITUS

----------------------------------------

GLOCK CERTIFIED ARMORER
lethal tupperwa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 07:15   #172
ysr_racer
Senior Member
 
ysr_racer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Happily in So. Cal.
Posts: 8,117
The Okie Corral
__________________
Check out my Sporting Clays page, CLICK HERE!!
Just a million dollars short of being a millionaire.
So. Cal. USA
ysr_racer is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 07:21   #173
LEO/Dad
Navy Veteran
 
LEO/Dad's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Illinois
Posts: 888
Call the law........period!
LEO/Dad is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 08:46   #174
Iron bottom
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Posts: 279
What if this hunter finds a Sasquatch turd on your land? Mighty valuable in your area, I understand. $2,500.00 or more. Think of your loss.
Iron bottom is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-27-2013, 10:04   #175
John Rambo
Raven
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: Tampa, Fl.
Posts: 8,047
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rabid Rabbit View Post
Just remember to blade when approaching the trespasser.
I want to find the person who decided to change the term, "Square up" to "blade" and shake them until they can no longer command the English language. I really do.
John Rambo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Tags
law vs. emotion, trespass
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:34.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,000
320 Members
680 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42