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Old 10-27-2013, 11:29   #181
TBO
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I've been hunting all my life, never had anyone murdered by a hunter in the area.

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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:02   #182
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I'm pretty sure open carry of a 10mm(and a 10mm ONLY) will prevent this.
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Old 10-27-2013, 12:47   #183
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LOL....'armed trespasser'. That is just funny considering the "gun is simply a tool" mindset on here on every other occasion where it comes up. Follow the normal advice on here, "if it isn't being used offensively as a weapon you shouldn't be anymore concerned over it than you would a cell phone".

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Old 10-27-2013, 12:59   #184
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Trespasser with gun = threat. Trespasser with no gun = no threat.

I don't think so.

Presence of trespasser should trigger a threat evaluation.


Should presence of OC guy standing on a public street trigger a threat evaluation ?
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Old 10-27-2013, 13:00   #185
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Rambo when you think everyone else in the world is an arrogant @##hole. Guess what the common denominator is?

The farmer has used the land for years with no contact with the landowner and no written agreement. Assumes he pretty much has all land use rights including hunting. Owners are just as much to blame for the land being used in ways they do not approve of as people who might have permission. Put up a sign where the truck parked with some contact info, post the rest of your land, contact the farmer, and maybe take some responsibility for the land you own.
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Old 10-27-2013, 15:12   #186
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
I've been hunting all my life, never had anyone murdered by a hunter in the area.

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So by your logic I should approach a stranger I find in my living room when I get home from work with the same casualness that I would someone OCing in the local grocery store?

You are right when you said the common denominator between someone carrying a gun in public and a trespassing hunter is the weapon. The difference is, in my state atleast, that one is obviously committing a crime and the OCer is not. Hence one gets treated like more of a threat to me. I have never heard of a trespassing law requiring intent.

The big problem with the OP is that he has no knowledge of the deal his Gpa made. So he has no idea who is farming it or what rights were also given away to the land. That is what needs to get dealt with first. From the OP this doesn't sound like a very large parcel of woods. Not really something that someone could hunt and not get noticed in, so i'm going to say the probability of the hunter knowing or actually being the farmer of the land is pretty high.
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Old 10-27-2013, 17:03   #187
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Originally Posted by vtbluegrass View Post
Rambo when you think everyone else in the world is an arrogant @##hole. Guess what the common denominator is?
I wasn't aware a certain kind of hunter was everyone else in the world. And I never said they were arrogant *******s. So really, I never said anything you posted about. Which leaves only one question...


...Does that strawman you're talking to pull double-duty scaring birds?
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Old 10-27-2013, 17:29   #188
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MN law

609.605 TRESPASS.
Subdivision 1.Misdemeanor. (a) The following terms have the meanings given them for purposes of this section.
(1) "Premises" means real property and any appurtenant building or structure.
(2) "Dwelling" means the building or part of a building used by an individual as a place of residence on either a full-time or a part-time basis. A dwelling may be part of a multidwelling or multipurpose building, or a manufactured home as defined in section 168.002, subdivision 16.
(3) "Construction site" means the site of the construction, alteration, painting, or repair of a building or structure.
(4) "Owner or lawful possessor," as used in paragraph (b), clause (9), means the person on whose behalf a building or dwelling is being constructed, altered, painted, or repaired and the general contractor or subcontractor engaged in that work.
(5) "Posted," as used:
(i) in paragraph (b), clause (4), means the placement of a sign at least 8-1/2 inches by 11 inches in a conspicuous place on the exterior of the building, or in a conspicuous place within the property on which the building is located. The sign must carry a general notice warning against trespass;
(ii) in paragraph (b), clause (9), means the placement of a sign at least 8-1/2 inches by 11 inches in a conspicuous place on the exterior of the building that is under construction, alteration, or repair, or in a conspicuous place within the area being protected. If the area being protected is less than three acres, one additional sign must be conspicuously placed within that area. If the area being protected is three acres but less than ten acres, two additional signs must be conspicuously placed within that area. For each additional full ten acres of area being protected beyond the first ten acres of area, two additional signs must be conspicuously placed within the area being protected. The sign must carry a general notice warning against trespass; and
(iii) in paragraph (b), clause (10), means the placement of signs that:
(A) carry a general notice warning against trespass;
(B) display letters at least two inches high;
(C) state that Minnesota law prohibits trespassing on the property; and
(D) are posted in a conspicuous place and at intervals of 500 feet or less.
(6) "Business licensee," as used in paragraph (b), clause (9), includes a representative of a building trades labor or management organization.
(7) "Building" has the meaning given in section 609.581, subdivision 2.


(b) A person is guilty of a misdemeanor if the person intentionally:
(1) permits domestic animals or fowls under the actor's control to go on the land of another within a city;
(2) interferes unlawfully with a monument, sign, or pointer erected or marked to designate a point of a boundary, line or a political subdivision, or of a tract of land;
(3) trespasses on the premises of another and, without claim of right, refuses to depart from the premises on demand of the lawful possessor;
(4) occupies or enters the dwelling or locked or posted building of another, without claim of right or consent of the owner or the consent of one who has the right to give consent, except in an emergency situation;
(5) enters the premises of another with intent to take or injure any fruit, fruit trees, or vegetables growing on the premises, without the permission of the owner or occupant;
(6) enters or is found on the premises of a public or private cemetery without authorization during hours the cemetery is posted as closed to the public;
(7) returns to the property of another with the intent to abuse, disturb, or cause distress in or threaten another, after being told to leave the property and not to return, if the actor is without claim of right to the property or consent of one with authority to consent;
(8) returns to the property of another within one year after being told to leave the property and not to return, if the actor is without claim of right to the property or consent of one with authority to consent;
(9) enters the locked or posted construction site of another without the consent of the owner or lawful possessor, unless the person is a business licensee;
(10) enters the locked or posted aggregate mining site of another without the consent of the owner or lawful possessor, unless the person is a business licensee; or
(11) crosses into or enters any public or private area lawfully cordoned off by or at the direction of a peace officer engaged in the performance of official duties. As used in this clause: (i) an area may be "cordoned off" through the use of tape, barriers, or other means conspicuously placed and identifying the area as being restricted by a peace officer and identifying the responsible authority; and (ii) "peace officer" has the meaning given in section 626.84, subdivision 1. It is an affirmative defense to a charge under this clause that a peace officer permitted entry into the restricted area.

Subd. 2.Gross misdemeanor. Whoever trespasses upon the grounds of a facility providing emergency shelter services for battered women, as defined under section 611A.31, subdivision 3, or of a facility providing transitional housing for battered women and their children, without claim of right or consent of one who has right to give consent, and refuses to depart from the grounds of the facility on demand of one who has right to give consent, is guilty of a gross misdemeanor.
Subd. 3. [Repealed, 1993 c 326 art 2 s 34]

Subd. 4.Trespasses on school property. (a) It is a misdemeanor for a person to enter or be found in a public or nonpublic elementary, middle, or secondary school building unless the person:
(1) is an enrolled student in, a parent or guardian of an enrolled student in, or an employee of the school or school district;
(2) has permission or an invitation from a school official to be in the building;
(3) is attending a school event, class, or meeting to which the person, the public, or a student's family is invited; or
(4) has reported the person's presence in the school building in the manner required for visitors to the school.
(b) It is a misdemeanor for a person to be on the roof of a public or nonpublic elementary, middle, or secondary school building unless the person has permission from a school official to be on the roof of the building.
(c) It is a gross misdemeanor for a group of three or more persons to enter or be found in a public or nonpublic elementary, middle, or secondary school building unless one of the persons:
(1) is an enrolled student in, a parent or guardian of an enrolled student in, or an employee of the school or school district;
(2) has permission or an invitation from a school official to be in the building;
(3) is attending a school event, class, or meeting to which the person, the public, or a student's family is invited; or
(4) has reported the person's presence in the school building in the manner required for visitors to the school.
(d) It is a misdemeanor for a person to enter or be found on school property within one year after being told by the school principal or the principal's designee to leave the property and not to return, unless the principal or the principal's designee has given the person permission to return to the property. As used in this paragraph, "school property" has the meaning given in section 152.01, subdivision 14a, clauses (1) and (3).
(e) A school principal or a school employee designated by the school principal to maintain order on school property, who has reasonable cause to believe that a person is violating this subdivision may detain the person in a reasonable manner for a reasonable period of time pending the arrival of a peace officer. A school principal or designated school employee is not civilly or criminally liable for any action authorized under this paragraph if the person's action is based on reasonable cause.
(f) A peace officer may arrest a person without a warrant if the officer has probable cause to believe the person violated this subdivision within the preceding four hours. The arrest may be made even though the violation did not occur in the peace officer's presence.

Subd. 5.Certain trespass on agricultural land. (a) A person is guilty of a gross misdemeanor if the person enters the posted premises of another on which cattle, bison, sheep, goats, swine, horses, poultry, farmed cervidae, farmed ratitae, aquaculture stock, or other species of domestic animals for commercial production are kept, without the consent of the owner or lawful occupant of the land.
(b) "Domestic animal," for purposes of this section, has the meaning given in section 609.599.
(c) "Posted," as used in paragraph (a), means the placement of a sign at least 11 inches square in a conspicuous place at each roadway entry to the premises. The sign must provide notice of a biosecurity area and wording such as: "Biosecurity measures are in force. No entrance beyond this point without authorization." The sign may also contain a telephone number or a location for obtaining such authorization.
(d) The provisions of this subdivision do not apply to employees or agents of the state or county when serving in a regulatory capacity and conducting an inspection on posted premises where domestic animals are kept.
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-27-2013, 18:59   #189
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OK, I'll admit I did not read each and every post on this thread. Only read some random ones. I formed two opinions.

The first is, most of those who responded here own guns.

The seconds is, even those respondents who own guns and properties, they're going to call 9-1-1 rather than talk to the trespassers first. In other words, those same respondents have decided that at the end of the day, they're going to make it home safely at the end of the day, no matter what.

That includes calling on someone else (ie 9-1-1) to handle their problems.
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:26   #190
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This thread it a perfect example of just about every problem you run in to either hunting or owning any huntable land.

There are a whole lot of people in the world who THINK they know a whole lot more than they really know and they don't let that lack of knowledge hamper their offering of opinions.

Just call the game warden.
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:44   #191
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So what I got from #3 of your post is that the "hunter" wasn't legally trespassing, because the owner of the land, the OP, didn't stop and tell him he wasn't welcome on his land. In MN anyway. In Iowa he has trespassed.

716.7 TRESPASS DEFINED.
1. The term "property" shall include any land, dwelling, building, conveyance, vehicle, or other temporary or permanent structure whether publicly or privately owned.
2. The term "trespass" shall mean one or more of the following acts:
a. Entering upon or in property without the express permission of the owner, lessee, or person in lawful possession with the intent to commit a public offense, to use, remove therefrom, alter, damage, harass, or place thereon or therein anything animate or inanimate, or to hunt, fish or trap on or in the property, including the act of taking or attempting to take a deer, other than a farm deer as defined in section 170.1 or preserve whitetail as defined in section 484C.1, which is on or in the property by a person who is outside the property. This paragraph does not prohibit the unarmed pursuit of game or fur-bearing animals by a person who lawfully injured or killed the game or fur-bearing animal which comes to rest on or escapes to the property of another.
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Old 10-27-2013, 19:59   #192
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clarson_75 View Post
So by your logic I should approach a stranger I find in my living room when I get home from work with the same casualness that I would someone OCing in the local grocery store?

You are right when you said the common denominator between someone carrying a gun in public and a trespassing hunter is the weapon. The difference is, in my state atleast, that one is obviously committing a crime and the OCer is not. Hence one gets treated like more of a threat to me. I have never heard of a trespassing law requiring intent.

The big problem with the OP is that he has no knowledge of the deal his Gpa made. So he has no idea who is farming it or what rights were also given away to the land. That is what needs to get dealt with first. From the OP this doesn't sound like a very large parcel of woods. Not really something that someone could hunt and not get noticed in, so i'm going to say the probability of the hunter knowing or actually being the farmer of the land is pretty high.
Read the law you posted, again.

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-27-2013, 20:35   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Patchman View Post

That includes calling on someone else (ie 9-1-1) to handle their problems.
And at the same time, society is not what it was 100 or 150 years ago.

If said landowner decides to "take the law into their own hands" and walks up armed, confronts said hunter demanding hunter drop his weapon, and when hunter makes a "threatening move" such as turning towards the voice, and said landowner opens fire on him, what do you think will happen to said landowner?

Will said landowner be given a pass for going out and actively seeking this trespasser and then shooting him?

I dont believe the law is on the side of the landowner here if there is a deadly confrontation.
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Old 10-27-2013, 20:56   #194
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Why in world would you demand a hunter "drop the weapon"?

Somebody comes walking up you armed and making demands like that, who exactly is the one acting in a threatening way?

This thread is so full of fail it is pathetic.
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Old 10-27-2013, 21:04   #195
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Originally Posted by elsolo View Post
Why in world would you demand a hunter "drop the weapon"?

Somebody comes walking up you armed and making demands like that, who exactly is the one acting in a threatening way?

This thread is so full of fail it is pathetic.
I thought we have determine the hunter is a criminal by trespassing...
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Old 10-27-2013, 21:16   #196
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I thought we have determine the hunter is a criminal by trespassing...
Trespassing requires intent, there are state laws posted above you could read.

Guy mistakenly walking the wrong slew for game animals while wearing blaze orange is nowhere near the response or analogies of "man in your house wearing a ski mask with a gun" posted by keyboard commandos here.
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Old 10-27-2013, 21:33   #197
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You don't charge people hunting with out permission with trespass. In nearly every state now there are specific laws dealing with HUNTING WITH OUT PERMISSION. Those laws are NOT the same as common trespass.

Hunters who do not have permission to be where they are, are not hunters. They are poachers and they are poaching not hunting. They are essentially thieves.

Just call the game warden.

Don't do something stupid because you read it on the internet.
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Old 10-27-2013, 21:59   #198
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Read the law you posted, again.

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you are right. they put the word intent in there. Then they listed off almost every possible action one could do. To me that sort of nullifies needing intent.
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Old 10-27-2013, 22:02   #199
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Ask an experienced criminal law attorney what difference that one word makes.

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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-27-2013, 22:43   #200
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Get off my lawn.
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