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Old 10-28-2013, 23:27   #101
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Ah, but you can still quit. The fact there may be consequences doesn't change the fact you can quit. Heck, Cassius Clay even refused to be drafted.

Now, since you oppose anything "special" for a "volunteer job", do you want to end Veteran Preference Points, along with other goodies that come with the job you volunteered for? If not, how do you reconcile your divergent views?
This is what you don't understand. I can't quit.

I can tell him I quit, but I can not, leave the employment of the govt until I fulfill the contract, or I'm released.

A soldier can not quit.



And I never said that I was opposed to special. I said I was opposed to awarding extra rights, to volunteer jobs.
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:27   #102
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
None of those are rights.

But limiting everyone's 2nd amendment rights and then saying oh no, this group, they're special, is wrong.

If it was blacks, it'd be racist, but because its job based, it's suddenly it's ok.

The real proof in the pudding is exempting retired LEOs. You'd have a much better argument if it was simply current LEOs.
How are they not rights? I see, you think the bill of rights are the only rights we have.

You should read up on that a little bit. They didnt even want to have a bill of rights because people would assume those are the only rights we have.

Lots of people can do things you cant. You only care about this one because it is important to you.
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:30   #103
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How are they not rights? I see, you think the bill of rights are the only rights we have.

You should read up on that a little bit. They didnt even want to have a bill of rights because people would assume those are the only rights we have.

Lots of people can do things you cant. You only care about this one because it is important to you.

Who said its the only one I care about?

I didn't post about every law or rule that was wrong. I just ruffled the GT cops feathers because I agreed this was wrong, and you guys care because you want to feel you deserve a special status somewhere above the citizens you protect.
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:31   #104
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
And I never said that I was opposed to special. I said I was opposed to awarding extra rights, to volunteer jobs.
Extra rights? You cant have it both ways. You cant call it a right...and then say someone is getting "extra rights." Your argument is flawed. You either have to say "no one should ever be able to do that," or "I am being denied a right."
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:32   #105
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Who said its the only one I care about?

I didn't post about every law or rule that was wrong. I just ruffled the GT cops feathers because I agreed this was wrong, and you guys care because you want to feel you deserve a special status somewhere above the citizens you protect.
Do you believe the only rights we have are the ones laid out in the bill of rights? It is a yes or no question. If your answer is "no"...then you have yet to answer my questions.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:35   #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Who said its the only one I care about?

I didn't post about every law or rule that was wrong. I just ruffled the GT cops feathers because I agreed this was wrong, and you guys care because you want to feel you deserve a special status somewhere above the citizens you protect.
I don't consider you a bad guy or cop hater, but I think you do have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps a bit of self introspection is in order.
I think if you do that, while you might not change your basic stance, you may learn something useful.

jmho
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Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:37   #107
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Do you believe the only rights we have are the ones laid out in the bill of rights? It is a yes or no question. If your answer is "no"...then you have yet to answer my questions.

Because I don't take the time to address your every incorrect point, doesn't make them right. I'm on my phone so I can only type so much between the cop dog pile of you guys trying to out post me in an attempt to justify being a special class.

But the answer is no.
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:40   #108
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You're the one labeling "special class". Different doesn't equal "special".
I believe your label in an appeal to emotion, otherwise you and ever other occupation would be a "special class".

Do you believe you are in a "special class"?
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:42   #109
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
Because I don't take the time to address your every incorrect point, doesn't make them right. I'm on my phone so I can only type so much between the cop dog pile of you guys trying to out post me in an attempt to justify being a special class.

But the answer is no.
Ah, I see. We are wrong and in spite of you quoting most every post made, you dont have the time to actually address that.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:45   #110
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Originally Posted by TBO View Post
I don't consider you a bad guy or cop hater, but I think you do have a bit of a chip on your shoulder. Perhaps a bit of self introspection is in order.
I think if you do that, while you might not change your basic stance, you may learn something useful.

jmho
It's not a chip, I'm not saying my job should have special weapons or carry rights because we're soldiers, or that soldiers are better than cops.


I simply find the general cop attitude, that you and Rabbi/BP exhibit in this thread disgusting.


We've created a special class of citizen, to go with a bad rule in your volunteer job. That's not right.

Off duty/retired cops are not special. Nor should they be. None of us should be. We all serve the citizens, in different capacitys. Making some, more equal, is another step in the wrong direction.
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:47   #111
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
It's not a chip, I'm not saying my job should have special weapons or carry rights because we're soldiers, or that soldiers are better than cops.


I simply find the general cop attitude, that you and Rabbi/BP exhibit in this thread disgusting.


We've created a special class of citizen, to go with a bad rule in your volunteer job. That's not right.

Off duty/retired cops are not special. Nor should they be. None of us should be. We all serve the citizens, in different capacitys. Making some, more equal, is another step in the wrong direction.
There's that emotive writing again, "special".

How is different "special" for cops, yet not for everyone else?
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"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

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“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:51   #112
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Who else is getting special treatment?
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:55   #113
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Who else is getting special treatment?
Do Vets get special treatment?
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:56   #114
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If we really want to scrutinize this issue...

According to AK_sticks logic, he should not be able to use the skills the military taught him to fix helicopters anywhere at anytime if he is not at work. It would be illegal for him to have a wrench and use it while not at work.

That is what being a cop is, a skill set. It just so happens to be the skill set that enforces laws. Just like countless other occupations, that skill set doesnt go away because you are not at work. The doctor can still cure, the plumber can still plunge and the helicopter mechanic can still turn a wrench.
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:56   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TBO View Post
Do Vets get special treatment?

So your claiming the HR bill is a reward for service?



Interesting argument.
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:58   #116
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So your claiming the HR bill is a reward for service?



Interesting argument.
You are moving the goal posts.

You have stood on the mountain of "no special class." and TBO flat out asked a valid question. "do Vets get special treatment." (of course they do)
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 10-28-2013 at 23:58..
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Old 10-28-2013, 23:58   #117
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Answer the question.
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:01   #118
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Answer the question.
Again, it brings up the fact that all kinds of occupations have privileges.

If you are a cop, you can carry 24/7 most everywhere. If you are a Vet you get added points on civil service tests, special loans....

Just like the doctor, lawyer, barber...
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Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:02   #119
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Answer the question.
I'm asking for clarification. Are you attempting to liken veteran preference points, a service related award, to the house bill?


In that comparison, no.

One is a reward for services rendered. The other is a law passed for those in service, or retired, and not a reward.
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:05   #120
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
I'm asking for clarification. Are you attempting to liken veteran preference points, a service related award, to the house bill?


In that comparison, no.

One is a reward for services rendered. The other is a law passed for those in service, or retired, and not a reward.
Is not the Veteran Preference Point system in place by law?
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:07   #121
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Is not the Veteran Preference Point system in place by law?


So your argument is that HR 218 is a service connected reward?
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:09   #122
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I'm asking for clarification. Are you attempting to liken veteran preference points, a service related award, to the house bill?


In that comparison, no.

One is a reward for services rendered. The other is a law passed for those in service, or retired, and not a reward.
Can you show me where in the Constitution it says any one can be made a special class by being given rewards?

You cant. You are just calling it what you want because what makes *you* (I served as well) special is OK...but what makes someone else special, is a problem for you.

The language of politicians is bullcrap...even when it is used for out benefit. A law is a law. They can call it a reward or tinkerbell if that want...but they exact same process happened. It is simply a benefit. Nothing more.

You want that benefit become the thing that has that benefit.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 10-29-2013 at 00:11..
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:13   #123
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There is a far cry between a employer granting a optional preference point to a applicant who previously worked for the military, and considerably altering one of the basic rights from the BOR.
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:14   #124
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What are the basic rights of the BOR?
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"Men occasionally stumble over the truth, but most of them pick themselves up and hurry off as if nothing had happened."

"If you have integrity, nothing else matters. If you don't have integrity, nothing else matters".

"A person who won't reason has no advantage over one who can't reason."

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."

“Ignorance is a lot like alcohol: the more you have of it, the less you are able to see its effect on you.”


Originally Posted by Rooster Rugburn:
Didn't the whole sheepdog thing actually start right here on Glock Talk? A bunch of wannabees bought a bunch of T-shirts and took an oath to defend those who won't defend themselves?
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Old 10-29-2013, 00:15   #125
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However, my argument has never been that one is right and the other not. I disagree with many laws.

They won't change, but it doesn't make it suddenly justified.
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