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Old 10-28-2013, 10:14   #26
Herzeleid
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Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
If a stadium is owned or leased by a private entity, why don't GTers seem to be supporting private property rights???
hey, by all means if it's private property. I'll just exercise my right to not go there.

...Of course, I never liked football to begin with.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:16   #27
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Originally Posted by Herzeleid View Post
hey, by all means if it's private property. I'll just exercise my right to not go there.

...Of course, I never liked football to begin with.
That is a good solution.

If you don't like the policies of a private business or property, don't go. You have the choice.

But of course that could cause heartbreaks for someone who loved football...it might even damage them...
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Last edited by DanaT; 10-28-2013 at 10:25..
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:17   #28
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Originally Posted by Dennis in MA View Post
What a S'y job. On duty 24/7???? Do we pay them for that??? Well, you'all because I don't live in TX. LOL
It has always been that way, I don't understand why people act shocked. They don't tell you out of the academy "congrats you are a law enforcement officer weekdays 8-5". Sworn officers are expected to intervene in certain situations in their presence, that is your oath.

My agency has an off duty policy of observe and report on misdemeanors, identify and intervene in violent crimes or felonies.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:25   #29
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That is a good solution.

If you don't like the policies of a private business or property, don't go. You have the choice.
So let me throw the ball back in your court now.


Are you for or against the CRA of 1964?

I'm personally against it, since that's forcing private business owners to take on "protected" classes.

If you happen to be FOR the cra of 1964, can we define gun owners are a "protected class" ?
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:26   #30
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I wonder if when and where off duty officers carry guns is controlled by the NFL in other states or is it controlled by legislation and/or policy set by the head of the agency?
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:29   #31
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Originally Posted by Herzeleid View Post
So let me throw the ball back in your court now.


Are you for or against the CRA of 1964?

I'm personally against it, since that's forcing private business owners to take on "protected" classes.

If you happen to be FOR the cra of 1964, can we define gun owners are a "protected class" ?
I don't believe private business should be forced to hire anyone. They should have the employees that best fit their business needs.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:35   #32
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That is a good solution.

If you don't like the policies of a private business or property, don't go. You have the choice.
But therein is the problem.

Most (99 75+%) of the professional sports stadiums built in that past couple decades in this country, were build with significant amounts of tax dollars. . So calling them "Private property" is a 100% lie. Public Dollars = Public Ownership. .

If not, then we need to stop using tax dollars to build stadiums for billionaire team owners. . .
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:37   #33
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I don't believe private business should be forced to hire anyone. They should have the employees that best fit their business needs.
Not just hire, we're talking about businesses choosing patrons, like what the NFL is doing.

Just making sure you're staying as consistent as me here.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:38   #34
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But therein is the problem.

Most (99+%) of the professional sports stadiums built in that past couple decades in this country, were build with significant amounts of tax dollars. . So calling them "Private property" is a 100% lie. Public Dollars = Public Ownership. .

If not, then we need to stop using tax dollars to build stadiums for billionaire team owners. . .
Good point. Same seems to apply to colleges too. A lot are built up on public funds.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:52   #35
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Originally Posted by wjv View Post
But therein is the problem.

Most (99+%) of the professional sports stadiums built in that past couple decades in this country, were build with significant amounts of tax dollars. . So calling them "Private property" is a 100% lie. Public Dollars = Public Ownership. .

If not, then we need to stop using tax dollars to build stadiums for billionaire team owners. . .
A lot of them are effectively public property. Similar to city hall or a police station. Which brings up and interesting point. In my city our training room can be rented out for events such as meetings, weddings, etc. It is pretty much how stadiums are around here.

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Old 10-28-2013, 10:54   #36
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Originally Posted by Herzeleid View Post
Not just hire, we're talking about businesses choosing patrons, like what the NFL is doing.

Just making sure you're staying as consistent as me here.
I believe that a private business, or a private person, should be able to enter into or decline a business arrangement based upon their own free will and what makes the best business sense to them.
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Old 10-28-2013, 10:58   #37
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Originally Posted by wjv View Post
But therein is the problem.

Most (99+%) of the professional sports stadiums built in that past couple decades in this country, were build with significant amounts of tax dollars. . So calling them "Private property" is a 100% lie. Public Dollars = Public Ownership. .

If not, then we need to stop using tax dollars to build stadiums for billionaire team owners. . .
And many of the new stadiums have been built with private money too.

Also, once property is leased, the leasee is the defacto property holder. Think of it like if you rent an apartment. You essentially have control of the building.

When renting commercial real-estate, think of it as a retailer renting a shop in a shopping mall, the mall owner cannot give police permission to search your store just like if you lease an apartment, and you say no to a search, the landowner cannot give permission. When you lease a property, you have many rights just as if you owned it.
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:07   #38
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Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
A lot of them are effectively public property. Similar to city hall or a police station. Which brings up and interesting point. In my city our training room can be rented out for events such as meetings, weddings, etc. It is pretty much how stadiums are around here.

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If I rent a car in California (which I do when I travel to CA), and someone (lets take a fictitious name like CACop) where to stop me does the fact the car does not belong to me, but only rented, mean that said fictitious person can ignore the 4th Amendment and search the car?
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Old 10-28-2013, 11:11   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wjv View Post
But therein is the problem.

Most (99+%) of the professional sports stadiums built in that past couple decades in this country, were build with significant amounts of tax dollars. . So calling them "Private property" is a 100% lie. Public Dollars = Public Ownership. .

If not, then we need to stop using tax dollars to build stadiums for billionaire team owners. . .
Check again. 99%? No. I would say small-market teams have used public money. I know the Krafts, after threatening to go to CT, paid 100% of the tab for the new Gillette Stadium. Bob Kraft said it was the best money he's ever spent.

Of the last 10 foozball stadiums built

MetLife (Jets/Giants) Private
AT&T (Dallas) Public (That is SO funny to me)
Lucas Oil (Indy) Public
UofAZ Stadium (Cards) - Quasi-mixed. (private agency with muni rights.)
Lincoln Financial Field (Philly) Public
Reliant (Houston) Public (Just as funny as Dallas)
Gillette (NE) PRIVATE!
CenturyLink Field (Seahawx) Public
Ford Field (Detroit) Public (big surprise)
Sports Authority Field (Denver) Public

Sooooo. . . WTF are you people voting for these stadiums for??? Are you all tapped????

And. . . looks like I was wrong above. ROFTFL!!! I never realized that MA was the fiscal conservative that you guys wish you could be. Wow.

That said - looks like most of these places are really PUBLIC locations. Local rules governing PRIVATE rental of a PUBLIC location would rule, I believe.

Wow. 7.5 out of 10 stadiums!
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Last edited by Dennis in MA; 10-28-2013 at 11:12..
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Old 10-28-2013, 12:23   #40
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Well, I wouldn't pay to support professional sports, so it's easy for me to say ... but if you don't like the rule, don't go there.

Next thing you know, some folks will be complaining they can't park wherever they feel like leaving their vehicle, or can't sit anywhere they feel like sitting.
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Old 10-28-2013, 13:10   #41
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If ordinary Joe's can't pack heat at games, no need to allow off duty cops to pack heat.

They are not some special class of citizen. If they are on duty, fine, it is their job to have a gun. But off duty, suffer like the rest of us when it comes to defending yourself.

The more laws that make a special class of citizen different from the regular citizens, the worse off this country is.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:02   #42
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Quote:
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If you happen to be FOR the cra of 1964, can we define gun owners are a "protected class" ?
No, since a physical object is being barred. HH
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:19   #43
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Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
If ordinary Joe's can't pack heat at games, no need to allow off duty cops to pack heat.

They are not some special class of citizen. If they are on duty, fine, it is their job to have a gun. But off duty, suffer like the rest of us when it comes to defending yourself.

The more laws that make a special class of citizen different from the regular citizens, the worse off this country is.
Yeah, you use powerful logic, we wouldnt want a doctor saving your live because he was not at work.

BTW, what would happen to you if you tried to perform brain surgery on someone?

...because in this county, only the Police have special privileges....and there is no good that can come from any kind of regulation of occupations.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:23   #44
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As a Non-LEO I'd like to be able to carry anywhere I want, but if I can't carry I sure as heck hope there is a good guy nearby who is armed if the SHTF.

I lieu of me being able to carry everywhere I'll support off-duty carry by LEO. One day I hope the laws will change but until then we are pretty much left hoping someone else will be there to stop the nut.
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Last edited by CarryTexas; 10-28-2013 at 14:24..
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:29   #45
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No, since a physical object is being barred. HH

A physical object that gives a woman a fighting chance against a man twice her size. Women are protected classes aren't they? Discrimination.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:31   #46
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Yeah, you use powerful logic, we wouldnt want a doctor saving your live because he was not at work.

BTW, what would happen to you if you tried to perform brain surgery on someone?

...because in this county, only the Police have special privileges....and there is no good that can come from any kind of regulation of occupations.
There are on duty cops at games to provide security in the event they are needed.

By making stadiums gun free zones, with the exception of on duty officers, the likelihood of needing an off duty armed cop is minimal.

As for your brain surgery comment, I have no clue where you are going with that. Care to explain?

Why would I even attempt brain surgery if I had no training?
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:35   #47
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As a Non-LEO I'd like to be able to carry anywhere I want, but if I can't carry I sure as heck hope there is a good guy nearby who is armed if the SHTF.

I lieu of me being able to carry everywhere I'll support off-duty carry by LEO. One day I hope the laws will change but until then we are pretty much left hoping someone else will be there to stop the nut.
There are plenty of armed officers at football games. That is the topic of the thread. If you are at a football game when TSHTF, I think you will be okay without any off duty cops with guns.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:36   #48
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Originally Posted by Glocksanity View Post
There are on duty cops at games to provide security in the event they are needed.

By making stadiums gun free zones, with the exception of on duty officers, the likelihood of needing an off duty armed cop is minimal.

As for your brain surgery comment, I have no clue where you are going with that. Care to explain?

Why would I even attempt brain surgery if I had no training?
You are either a brain surgeon or you are not. It is a binary issue. By law, you cant do brain surgery.

Cops are not the only occupation with statutory exemptions. From barbers to brain surgeons. Being at "work" doesnt change said exemption either. You just dont like this one because you want to do it yourself.
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:42   #49
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If I rent a car in California (which I do when I travel to CA), and someone (lets take a fictitious name like CACop) where to stop me does the fact the car does not belong to me, but only rented, mean that said fictitious person can ignore the 4th Amendment and search the car?
What are the circumstances of the stop?

What information is gathered post stop?

What does the rental agreement state?
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Old 10-28-2013, 14:46   #50
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If ordinary Joe's can't pack heat at games, no need to allow off duty cops to pack heat.

They are not some special class of citizen. If they are on duty, fine, it is their job to have a gun. But off duty, suffer like the rest of us when it comes to defending yourself.

The more laws that make a special class of citizen different from the regular citizens, the worse off this country is.
I actually have no problem with regular Joes packing at games. I also have no problems with people packing in many places that are illegal in supposedly gun friendly states. Perfect example is how some states make churches off limits. I think that is between the person in charge of that place of worship and the person there to worship. Strangely enough as hard as it is to get a CCW permit in CA once you get it the list of off limits places is pretty small like jail or court.
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