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Old 10-19-2013, 22:04   #1
CAcop
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More Happiness From SJPD

http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local-...-cities/nbSC8/

Chuck Reed is trying to get something on the statewide ballot that allows cities to essentially tear up contracts without having to declare bankruptcy. He is having to hard of a time keeping people with Santa Clara and Sunnyvale next door throwing money at cops like rappers in a strip club.

At our two officers' memorial this year he was told he couldn't sit with the VIPs down on the floor. He had to sit with the general public up in the seats.
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Old 10-19-2013, 22:24   #2
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I call freak'n Bull****. At this point my first response from anything from management is to never concede. Never give up anything. The truth of the matter is they (management) NEVER negotiate in good faith. A contract is an agreement that needs to be honored and enforced.

What is needed is to put the city manager's and county councils in prison when they create unfunded future liabilities by diverting funds to their socialist pet projects.
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Old 10-19-2013, 22:28   #3
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I call freak'n Bull****. At this point my first response from anything from management is to never concede. Never give up anything. The truth of the matter is they (management) NEVER negotiate in good faith. A contract is an agreement that needs to be honored and enforced.

What is needed is to put the city manager's and county councils in prison when they create unfunded future liabilities by diverting funds to their socialist pet projects.
Exactly.
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Old 10-20-2013, 10:33   #4
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People wonder why I support public safety unions and refuse to believe for a second that local politicians won't screw me in a heartbeat.
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Old 10-20-2013, 15:50   #5
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People wonder why I support public safety unions and refuse to believe for a second that local politicians won't screw me in a heartbeat.
Ha, the politicians and general public will screw you over in a heartbeat. Don't worry though, they'll fill your retirement account with IOUs.
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Old 10-20-2013, 16:27   #6
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Ha, the politicians and general public will screw you over in a heartbeat. Don't worry though, they'll fill your retirement account with IOUs.
Nice to know they have integrity. Obviously they'd rather owe you the money rather than cheat you out of it....

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Old 10-20-2013, 16:43   #7
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So in other words, the mayor in in a civil war with his police department? Or at least the rank and file?
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Old 10-20-2013, 18:40   #8
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So in other words, the mayor in in a civil war with his police department? Or at least the rank and file?
High level people in the department have retired earlier than originally planned or left to be chief elsewhere. I think one would have been the current chief had he not bailed early.

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I wonder if your assessment of "The Wizard of Oz" would sound something like "A teenaged orphan runs away with three psychotic AD/HD patients and a little dog. She kills the first two women she meets." --Sinecure 07/03/2006
Freakin' awsome!! Kickin it old school. Hot sheet on the dash. The report was probably only two sentences. Long live Rencko and Bobbie Hill!--WhiskeyT
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:07   #9
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High level people in the department have retired earlier than originally planned or left to be chief elsewhere. I think one would have been the current chief had he not bailed early.
That's telling, unfortunately. Watching the interview, the mayor appears all butt hurt that the union is doing what is best for the members.
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:44   #10
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Hey now... some in management try to be upfront and honest and negotiate in good faith... it's the unions who are trying to keep screwing around and asking for the impossible and then using bully tactics to try to get people to back down.
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Old 10-21-2013, 03:20   #11
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Hey now... some in management try to be upfront and honest and negotiate in good faith... it's the unions who are trying to keep screwing around and asking for the impossible and then using bully tactics to try to get people to back down.
Ok I'll preface this by saying that I'm keeping my response civil and I have no pretense or attitude in my question.

Have you actually been involved in negotiations for a public safety union? I've not see lavish demands, as a matter of fact the bulk of what we negotiate is stupid. We are extremely lucky to have a decent relationship with our city at the moment, but that can always change in a heartbeat and I realize that many departments (SJPD as an example) aren't so lucky.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:10   #12
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I think the Lawman was being facetious.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:49   #13
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Pray for your Detroit brothers about to retire. Saw something in the paper there's a proposal to scrap the pension for current employees, all those years wiped out, you get to enroll in 401K from scratch, believe they get whatever they contributed to the pension in a lump sum, don't believe they're even getting any interest on the money.

But you can bet the unions will have the audacity to try to bully the city into honoring the existing terms, just because the city agreed to those terms, or under some other similar pretense.

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Old 10-21-2013, 08:56   #14
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Have you actually been involved in negotiations for a public safety union?
Short answer... Yes.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:13   #15
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Pray for your Detroit brothers about to retire. Saw something in the paper there's a proposal to scrap the pension for current employees, all those years wiped out, you get to enroll in 401K from scratch, believe they get whatever they contributed to the pension in a lump sum, don't believe they're even getting any interest on the money.

But you can bet the unions will have the audacity to try to bully the city into honoring the existing terms, just because the city agreed to those terms, or under some other similar pretense.

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How dare those union thugs make an effort to get what was promised to them for the last 25 years of their career.. How dare they look at all the ridiculous ways that the city is wasting money (didn't I just hear something about a robocop statue?) and say "so you can't afford my pension, but you can line the pockets of all of your special interest groups??".

How dare they.
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They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
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I humbly submit I have over one million Concealed Carry hours. First license is from early 80's.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:31   #16
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I have a friend who is a card carrying, kool aid drinking member of the TEA party. He loves to insist that public safety unions are greedy and the downfall of society. I ask him if he trusts Obama explicitly. Of course he says he doesn't. I then ask if he'd trust Obama to administer his pay and benefits fairly, of course he says no. I then remind him that Obama's exist at all levels of government and that there is no expectation for experience or education to get elected to local government, and that it's absurd and hypocritical for him to admit that he wouldn't trust these people with his pay but insist that I must.

Last time I told him that, he then went down the road of privatizing public safety. I walked away, because it's clear he's never looked at the history (distant and current) of privatized public safety in America.
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They made bad choices and expect us to pay the price? I don't think so, Tim.
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I humbly submit I have over one million Concealed Carry hours. First license is from early 80's.
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Old 10-21-2013, 12:50   #17
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Quote:
Pray for your Detroit brothers about to retire. Saw something in the paper there's a proposal to scrap the pension for current employees, all those years wiped out, you get to enroll in 401K from scratch, believe they get whatever they contributed to the pension in a lump sum, don't believe they're even getting any interest on the money.
Which is why I am glad my city wisely decided to scrap SSI and do a 401(a) and a 457 plan as well. Our state pension is solid and well placed and is under constant threat to be raided by the legislature.

What would make me seriously angry is that I would be unable to pull out what I personally paid into the pension to reinvest. Theft of a sort. But it has happened before which I why I diversify in my retirement accounts.
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Old 10-22-2013, 08:13   #18
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I am absolutely anti-union. However, when a pension/retirement is promised or contracted, you have an obligation to pay. It is like any other civil agreement. If you cant pay then declare bankruptcy and deal with the consequences.

You cant change the rules because they are inconveinent.
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Old 10-22-2013, 14:35   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CAcop View Post
http://www.ktvu.com/news/news/local-...-cities/nbSC8/

Chuck Reed is trying to get something on the statewide ballot that allows cities to essentially tear up contracts without having to declare bankruptcy. He is having to hard of a time keeping people with Santa Clara and Sunnyvale next door throwing money at cops like rappers in a strip club.

At our two officers' memorial this year he was told he couldn't sit with the VIPs down on the floor. He had to sit with the general public up in the seats.
He may get some positive feedback from outsider that know nothing about what he is doing.
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Old 10-22-2013, 18:48   #20
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A friend just went to Sunnyvale, after almost a decade with San Jose, and should be finished w/ the fire academy soon. Sunnyvale is a public safety agency and their people are cross trained cops / firefighters.

The reason for leaving: San Jose messing with the officers and THE PENSION.

Good job Reed.
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