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Old 10-20-2013, 22:46   #151
PhotoFeller
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Originally Posted by bac1023 View Post


The Darwin award for sure, especially when you consider it cost him an extra $135 per gun to do it...
:
Personal comments like this are unwarranted, in my opinion. Its ok to challenge and disagree, because people learn from discussion and debate. Many folks who don't participate by posting benefit from following the discussion. Folks who are new to handguns and Glocks really benefit from the ideas and opinions offered by experienced members; thats the real value of forums like GT.

I haven't counted the references to "stupid" and "stupidity", but they were frequent. And now the use of "Darwin award", which is about as personal as a negative comment could be. I know this is a forum and we are supposed to be big boys with thick skin, but why disregard common decency as a general guideline?

Lets move on.
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Old 10-20-2013, 22:59   #152
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I have a good anecdote on this exact topic. This incident forever changed my views on this topic. I decided I wanted to carry with a manual safety, so like any other gun savvy person with this thought....1911, cocked and locked. got a springfield 1911, as well as a RIA officers model for some variation. When it was time to take my CCW class here in OHIO...boom, bring my 1911. this class was taught by a local policeman and FFL dealer. he kind of nodded at me like what are you thinking...you know in the heat of the moment, 90% of the time you wont think about that manual safety!...he then cited a few fire fights hes been in through his LE career in which officers were wounded for this exact reason(back when they were carrying the Smith and Wesson pistols) anyway, long story long...when it came time to qualify, one of the drills was a simulated situation where we were browsing at a mall, and he would announce shooter and we draw, aquire, fire and move. etc. anyway, guess which idiot didnt hit the safety......this guy! traded for a few new glocks the next day....a 30S and a gen4 27.....
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:05   #153
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What IS the difference IF I had one done or IF I bought one already done????? Their STILL junk!!!!

GLOCKS Don't need external manual safety!!!!!!
I know that playing the grammar police always makes one look like an ass, but you said "their junk" twice already. I believe that you meant "they're junk".

Stay in school boys and girls!
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Old 10-21-2013, 01:22   #154
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Hi, I just watched a YouTube video in which someone had a external manual safety put on their Glock 30s. Has anyone here had that done? By whom?

Thanks
Rich
I can see arguments on both sides of the issue. I knew a leo who accidentally killed a man with his Glock when the two were wrestling while the officer was subduing the man and the trigger "safety" on the Glock got hit and then the trigger was depressed by during the scuffle. It cost the county involved 2 million dollars. Normally if you keep the finger off the trigger that is all that is needed but I would suggest the USP Series by HK if you are concerned about the safety issue. If you have children around I would suggest another brand of weapon other than Glock if the firearm is not locked up at home if a live round is in the chamber.
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Old 10-21-2013, 02:08   #155
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
Personal comments like this are unwarranted, in my opinion. Its ok to challenge and disagree, because people learn from discussion and debate. Many folks who don't participate by posting benefit from following the discussion. Folks who are new to handguns and Glocks really benefit from the ideas and opinions offered by experienced members; thats the real value of forums like GT.

I haven't counted the references to "stupid" and "stupidity", but they were frequent. And now the use of "Darwin award", which is about as personal as a negative comment could be. I know this is a forum and we are supposed to be big boys with thick skin, but why disregard common decency as a general guideline?

Lets move on.
Well, this thread was a bit of an exception, unfortunately. I love how you try policing this thread after adding so much to the augmentative nature of it.

Stop quoting my posts and we'll move on...
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Old 10-21-2013, 04:35   #156
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...I knew a leo who accidentally killed a man with his Glock when the two were wrestling while the officer was subduing the man and the trigger "safety" on the Glock got hit and then the trigger was depressed by during the scuffle. It cost the county involved 2 million dollars...

So the bad guy is going for the LEO's gun and gets shot and the City/County caves in & pays? I gotta call BS here as this is not a firearm issue but most likely a race/political issue and an O.J. jury pool. You go for the cops's gun and you die as a result = justice. Bad analogy.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:22   #157
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Hmmm. What if you already own a Glock and decide you want an external safety?

The Cominolli safety is regarded as a well designed accessory that doesn't void the Glock factory warranty. That sounds pretty simple, too.
Deciding to put an external safety on a Glock is simply admitting that a Glock pistol is not for you and you figured that out after the purchase. Sell it and buy something that is for you. There are so many choices out there that offer external thumb safeties from the factory that there is no need to ruin a perfectly good firearm with an aftermarket part that adds more complication and failure points to a perfectly fine pistol.

If you want a pistol similar in function to a Glock with an optional thumb safety, a S&W M&P might be a good choice. H&K, Sig, FN, Ruger, and just about any 1911 manufacturer also make fine pistols with external safeties either standard or optional from the factory.
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Old 10-21-2013, 05:47   #158
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Now here ^^ is an idea worthy of consideration. Covering the trigger with a quality holster is all the protection one needs to carry with absolute safety.

Hmmm. Why do bac and others who tote 1911s want that darn manual safety when a $50+ holster is all they really need? All one has to do after the gun is drawn from the holster is keep from touching the trigger till its time to go boom. Problem solved! No manual safety needed...on any handgun!
That actually is all you need. Please explain to me how you are going to have an accidental discharge with a Glock that is in a holster with the trigger guard completely covered. Sounds like total safety to me. For a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled, multiple parts would need to fail all at once. I suppose it is possible, but so is being struck by lightning.

Even though it is the most asinine comment you have made yet, I will answer about firearms like the 1911. They are single action only pistols. They require minimal pressure and minimal travel to pull the trigger. Double action only pistols are much more forgiving to stupidity in this respect as they are generally of a higher pull weight and have considerable pre travel making the safety an unnecessary feature due care is shown.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:10   #159
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Are you saying the Glock pistol forgives some unintended pressure on the trigger while a 1911 does not? Said another way, one can be a little 'sloppy' with a Glock in Condition 1 while there is no margin for sloppiness with a cocked and locked 1911?

What element of common sense am I overlooking?

Are you also saying trigger finger discipline does not provide absolute prevention of touching the trigger unintentionally.
Yes, that is exactly what he is saying. Look at diagrams of what happens when the trigger is pulled on a 1911 then do the same for a Glock. A 1911 with the hammer back is under full tension already as the main spring is compressed by the hammer strut. Pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer and all the spring tension from the main spring is released dropping the hammer on a firing spring that is held by a spring not under tension. With a Glock, when you pull the trigger, the first part of your pull is preloading the striker spring which was only under partial tension before the pull. During this process you are also moving the pluger that holds the firing pin and moving the trigger bar from blocking the striker lug.

If you don't grasp what I just said, there are animated diagrams if you search Google. Just the functional differences between the pistols kill your entire argument.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:13   #160
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Deciding to put an external safety on a Glock is simply admitting that a Glock pistol is not for you and you figured that out after the purchase. Sell it and buy something that is for you. There are so many choices out there that offer external thumb safeties from the factory that there is no need to ruin a perfectly good firearm with an aftermarket part that adds more complication and failure points to a perfectly fine pistol.

If you want a pistol similar in function to a Glock with an optional thumb safety, a S&W M&P might be a good choice. H&K, Sig, FN, Ruger, and just about any 1911 manufacturer also make fine pistols with external safeties either standard or optional from the factory.
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That actually is all you need. Please explain to me how you are going to have an accidental discharge with a Glock that is in a holster with the trigger guard completely covered. Sounds like total safety to me. For a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled, multiple parts would need to fail all at once. I suppose it is possible, but so is being struck by lightning.

Even though it is the most asinine comment you have made yet, I will answer about firearms like the 1911. They are single action only pistols. They require minimal pressure and minimal travel to pull the trigger. Double action only pistols are much more forgiving to stupidity in this respect as they are generally of a higher pull weight and have considerable pre travel making the safety an unnecessary feature due care is shown.
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Yes, that is exactly what he is saying. Look at diagrams of what happens when the trigger is pulled on a 1911 then do the same for a Glock. A 1911 with the hammer back is under full tension already as the main spring is compressed by the hammer strut. Pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer and all the spring tension from the main spring is released dropping the hammer on a firing spring that is held by a spring not under tension. With a Glock, when you pull the trigger, the first part of your pull is preloading the striker spring which was only under partial tension before the pull. During this process you are also moving the pluger that holds the firing pin and moving the trigger bar from blocking the striker lug.

If you don't grasp what I just said, there are animated diagrams if you search Google. Just the functional differences between the pistols kill your entire argument.

Roger, kudos to you for having a great deal more patience than I did.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:36   #161
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From another thread, this post by F106Fan provides an explanation of the Glock safe trigger mechanism. The Glock trigger is more "forgiving" than the 1911 trigger mechanism. This mechanical feature of Glock pistols is the basis for the popular belief that Glocks don't need a manual safety.

"Understand the mechanism! The firing pin is cocked by moving the trigger to the rear. There isn't enough stored energy in the firing pin spring, at rest, to cause a discharge even if the firing pin accidentally dropped. And, of course, there is a firing pin block that blocks the pin from hitting the primer unless the trigger has been moved to the rear. And the trigger can't move to the rear unless the safety tab has first been moved to the rear.

The gun is not going to go off by itself. There are a number of ways to mess up but, by itself, the Safe Action is pretty good.

The single fact that the gun isn't cocked until the trigger is pulled fully to the rear just about prevents any failure....."

Some people (myself included) still believe Glocks would be more desirable with a manual safety. The most common retort to that is "then buy a gun that comes from the manufacturer with a manual safety". In fact, I agree.

I remain convinced that the Cominilli safety is a viable option for a Glock owner who decides the Safe Action Trigger lacks sufficient protection against an unintended discharge given his/her level of training and experience. Some Glock owners are not highly trained and lack extensive experience with handguns; and, most people will not seek extensive training and experience to overcome these deficiencies. While trading their Glock for a more suitable weapon might be the best solution, adding a Cominolli safety is not an unreasonable course of action, in my opinion.
You forgot that there are 2 things that block the striker. The trigger bar on the striker lug and the plunger that holds the striker.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:51   #162
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So the bad guy is going for the LEO's gun and gets shot and the City/County caves in & pays? I gotta call BS here as this is not a firearm issue but most likely a race/political issue and an O.J. jury pool. You go for the cops's gun and you die as a result = justice. Bad analogy.
The post does not mention that the firearm was being reached for however I would say that in just about any case unless there was video showing contrary, that the officer was guilty of no wrongdoing. The problem is, and we have all heard stories like this where the officer is cleared of criminal wrongdoing however a civil suit is filed and won for wrongful death.
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Old 10-21-2013, 06:57   #163
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Roger, kudos to you for having a great deal more patience than I did.
I just dislike it when lack of knowledge of how a specific firearm functions leads to uneducated and misleading comments. As you stated, 1911's and Glocks are apples and oranges as they accomplish the same thing but in completely different ways.

On the other side of the safety coin, companies like H&K who sell most of their pistols in a V1 variation (DA/SA with a manual safety) offer the LEM kit for the USP to remove the safety and make it one of the smoothest DAO pistols I have ever shot. What was H&K thinking removing a "vital" safety feature?????
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Old 10-21-2013, 07:01   #164
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Exactly

I can't even imagine the thought process that steers people to put some cheap and cheesy lever safety on their Glock.
The same thought process that leads some people to carry cheap and cheesy Glocks in the first place.



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Old 10-21-2013, 07:47   #165
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That actually is all you need. Please explain to me how you are going to have an accidental discharge with a Glock that is in a holster with the trigger guard completely covered. Sounds like total safety to me. For a Glock to fire without the trigger being pulled, multiple parts would need to fail all at once. I suppose it is possible, but so is being struck by lightning.

Even though it is the most asinine comment you have made yet, I will answer about firearms like the 1911. They are single action only pistols. They require minimal pressure and minimal travel to pull the trigger. Double action only pistols are much more forgiving to stupidity in this respect as they are generally of a higher pull weight and have considerable pre travel making the safety an unnecessary feature due care is shown.
Hey, Roger, please read all of my posts. The 1911 issue was answered, and I acknowledged the difference between Glock and 1911 triggers. Reread my post included in your post #161.

Thanks for taking time to address the questions I raised. Real discussions with facts and explanations like yours are helpful to folks who come here to learn.

As for the "asinine" nature of my comments, try to understand that I ask questions sometimes for the purpose of generating discussion. I also poke and probe sometimes when information or opinions seem off the mark.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 10-21-2013 at 08:11..
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:06   #166
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Yes, that is exactly what he is saying. Look at diagrams of what happens when the trigger is pulled on a 1911 then do the same for a Glock. A 1911 with the hammer back is under full tension already as the main spring is compressed by the hammer strut. Pulling the trigger simply releases the hammer and all the spring tension from the main spring is released dropping the hammer on a firing spring that is held by a spring not under tension. With a Glock, when you pull the trigger, the first part of your pull is preloading the striker spring which was only under partial tension before the pull. During this process you are also moving the pluger that holds the firing pin and moving the trigger bar from blocking the striker lug.

If you don't grasp what I just said, there are animated diagrams if you search Google. Just the functional differences between the pistols kill your entire argument.
Roger, my posts about Glock vs. 1911 triggers were aimed at the logic of handgun safety "rules" that always surface here in discussions about the Glock safe action trigger. How does one justify not having a manual safety on a Glock when the 1911 aficionados all agree its necessary for a 1911? Before your answer was posted, F106Fan provided a good answer. Others didn't answer because they were too busy criticizing the question.

Questions that elicit meaningful answers are helpful to people who are interested in learning. Answers that criticize the question and the questioner are detrimental to the process.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 10-21-2013 at 08:09..
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:10   #167
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If Glock introduced new models with the Comminolli safety installed at the factory you would hear an uproar no doubt. But the uproar would die down and everyone would just choose which one they preferred.

That wouldn't be near as fun as these debates though.

Regards,
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:25   #168
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Well, this thread was a bit of an exception, unfortunately. I love how you try policing this thread after adding so much to the augmentative nature of it.

Stop quoting my posts and we'll move on...
There is no way you can justify using terms like "stupid", "stupidity" and "Darwin award" in reference to honest questions and statements made in this thread. Wait, maybe 80,000+ posts gives you a license to insult people. After 78,000 more posts I could call you...(I have a term in mind).
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:33   #169
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There is no way you can justify using terms like "stupid", "stupidity" and "Darwin award" in reference to honest questions and statements made in this thread. Wait, maybe 80,000+ posts gives you a license to insult people. After 78,000 more posts I could call you...(I have a term in mind).
that tongueout smiley is childish and not warranted in this forum.
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Old 10-21-2013, 08:39   #170
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There is no way you can justify using terms like "stupid", "stupidity" and "Darwin award" in reference to honest questions and statements made in this thread. Wait, maybe 80,000+ posts gives you a license to insult people. After 78,000 more posts I could call you...(I have a term in mind).
No special license here. *However, I was the first with the insults in this thread. Your buddy called all of us fools, after spending $1600 to ruin twelve Glocks.

I also wasn't the one starting the arguments.

Regardless, hopefully you came out of this thread with more knowledge than when it started.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:00   #171
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The following statement by Maas Ayoob in a Glock Talk post (and other, similar statements he's made in response to GT inquiries) helped me accept the Cominolli safety as a reasonable modification for a Glock:

"I've tried the Cominolli thumb safety on the Glock and like it very much. Rick Devoid at Tarnhelm (www.tarnhelm.com) does a great installation, reasonably priced with quick turnaround. Only downside I can see is that it is right-hand only.

Best,
Mas"

I have no personal experience with the Cominolli. Maas has tried it and judged it to be worthwhile. His other GT posts on this subject are accessible via the search function.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 10-21-2013 at 09:12..
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:05   #172
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Up front I am saying this is only FOR ME, but after watching the testimony during the Zimmerman trial, I am leery about any modifications to my carry guns other than sights.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:13   #173
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The following statement by Maas Ayoob in a Glock Talk post (and other, similar statements he's made in response to GT inquiries) helped me accept the Cominolli safety as a reasonable modification for a Glock:

"I've tried the Cominolli thumb safety on the Glock and like it very much. Rick Devoid at Tarnhelm (www.tarnhelm.com) does a great installation, reasonably priced with quick turnaround. Only downside I can see is that it is right-hand only.

Best,
Mas"

I have no personal experience with the Cominolli. Maas has tried it and judged that it to be worthwhile. His other GT posts on this subject are accessible via the search function.
I'm not sure what you're trying to accomplish here. If you like it and want to give it a try, go for it.

That way, you can speak from experience and tell us how great the product is.
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:15   #174
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Less controls to snag on exterior the better...Don't want one!
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Old 10-21-2013, 09:31   #175
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Up front I am saying this is only FOR ME, but after watching the testimony during the Zimmerman trial, I am leery about any modifications to my carry guns other than sights.

Morning BuckyP

I understand what your getting at but a modified gun is a modified gun, so wouldn't different sights still make your gun a modified gun to make it more deadly & dangerous?
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