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Old 10-23-2013, 14:29   #226
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Originally Posted by tager View Post
Well, I guess that would be true but unless those things produce a projectile they have a very limited range.
Many of them are far more effective than a Glock.
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Old 10-23-2013, 16:04   #227
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So you are saying that the guy(Wallin Reed) that killed one guy with the AR15 and shot the others was never an Army Ranger? That really shows he had some issues.. I would have plead mental instability in that one but if the kids had not stolen the lights the events would have not happened. His gun was legal but he may not have been.
Yes, thats the case. He was in the army but never in combat or a Ranger. He was found guilty of first degree murder and seven other felonies.
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Old 10-23-2013, 16:20   #228
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http://www.plumasnews.com/index.php?...-news&Itemid=6

found the link, Wallin-Reed case. Sorry I'm getting off topic.

Last edited by fg17; 10-23-2013 at 16:23..
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Old 10-23-2013, 16:46   #229
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Yes, thats the case. He was in the army but never in combat or a Ranger. He was found guilty of first degree murder and seven other felonies.
I bet his family was shocked to hear the news that he was not a Ranger. The kids should have not messed with him anyway but that is another story. I had to search for the article that showed where his service records had been shown in court. I think he still could have gotten off if he had effective counsel but that is another story.
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Old 10-23-2013, 16:51   #230
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http://www.plumasnews.com/index.php?...-news&Itemid=6

found the link, Wallin-Reed case. Sorry I'm getting off topic.
That is still an interesting story because they had no phones or electric from the articles I read. I can understand how they would be scared. He may get a new trial with a different attorney but I am really shocked that he told them he was an "Army Ranger" if not one because he should have known they would find out the truth.
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Old 10-23-2013, 16:54   #231
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Now getting back to a safety on a Glock lets look at the most accidents with Glocks and it is because people rack the slide first and then forget that they had a loaded magazine. They had the incident at the school today where they had a policeman talking safety and I bet it was a Glock that went boom. A safety is good if you train with it and can remember to turn it off prior to battle and for most people the reality is that they will never need a gun in their lifetime but you truly never know when it may be needed.
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Old 10-23-2013, 17:21   #232
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Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
Now getting back to a safety on a Glock lets look at the most accidents with Glocks and it is because people rack the slide first and then forget that they had a loaded magazine. They had the incident at the school today where they had a policeman talking safety and I bet it was a Glock that went boom. A safety is good if you train with it and can remember to turn it off prior to battle and for most people the reality is that they will never need a gun in their lifetime but you truly never know when it may be needed.
That isn't why people have negligent accidents/injuries, although it contributes.

You can rack the slide and then dump the mag, thinking it's unloaded, all day long, and nobody will be injured...unless and until you point the gun at yourself or another person and pull the trigger.

If you really want to do something about that, you'll buy a gun with a magazine disconnect safety.
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Old 10-23-2013, 18:43   #233
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The difference between you and Mas being that he's an expert and you have no idea what you're talking about.

You form and offer an opinion without having the requisite knowledge. Mas, and other people who don't wish to look like idiots, do not. Your argument about a 1911 (or any other pistol) not needing a safety if a Glock doesn't need one is a great example. You didn't know the basic operation of either firearm (if you did you would understand why the 1911 requires an external safety and why a Glock does not) yet you spouted off anyway.

I guess I'm guilty of your first charge: I offered an opinion (that they aren't junk, and it isn't stupid to install one) without first hand knowledge. I relied on the opinion of Mr. Ayoob after years of reading his articles and watching his tv appearances; I respect his opinion and incorporated it into my thinking about the Cominolli safety. I did qualify my statements with the disclaimer that I have no personal experience with the safety device.

Reference to the 1911 safety was to make a theoretical point which, apparently, everybody missed by a mile. My bad. Here is the logic I was trying to use: if keeping ones finger off of the trigger until its time to shoot is a proven, generally accepted practice for a Glock in Condition one, why isn't the same rule applicable to a 1911? [I know the trigger mechanisms are worlds apart; I own 1911s and shoot them from time to time.] Please ignore the mechanical differences, if you can, and think just about 'the rule' applied to a 1911; in Condition 0, if you DON'T TOUCH THE TRIGGER, it won't fire. Same with a cocked revolver. Period. But we know its really hard to handle a 1911 safely without a manual safety because ABSOLUTE TRIGGER CONTROL ISN'T POSSIBLE. Inexperienced Glock owners need to realize that; they need serious training and experience to carry a Glock in Condition 1 safely, in my opinion. The Safe Action trigger isn't perfectly safe in the hands of an inexperienced Glock owner.

I've probably muddled things even further, but there it is. Maybe stupid or asinine as previously suggested, but that's all I was trying to do.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 10-23-2013 at 19:25..
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Old 10-23-2013, 19:51   #234
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Originally Posted by JuneyBooney View Post
That is still an interesting story because they had no phones or electric from the articles I read. I can understand how they would be scared. He may get a new trial with a different attorney but I am really shocked that he told them he was an "Army Ranger" if not one because he should have known they would find out the truth.
Yes he should have known they would have found out. I hate when people lie about there military training and service. Yes the young men made a mistake, No he should not have chased them 7 miles and gunned them down. I have never attended any self defense course that recomended his course of action.
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Old 10-23-2013, 22:40   #235
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Originally Posted by fg17 View Post
Yes he should have known they would have found out. I hate when people lie about there military training and service. Yes the young men made a mistake, No he should not have chased them 7 miles and gunned them down. I have never attended any self defense course that recomended his course of action.
I only saw the Dateline reports but i agree.. He must gave really been ticked off. Did they ever say if he had been drinking?
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Old 10-24-2013, 03:27   #236
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BTW, I might have already repeated what others have said, but some Glocks come from the factory with safety lever.

If you are a self-proclaimed Glock enthusiast and you don't know about .380 caliber Glock or factory safety lever on Glock...well...it doesn't sound like you know much about Glock products at all.
Will Glock retrofit guns with the lever? I'd go that route if I wanted the lever.
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Old 10-24-2013, 05:43   #237
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I only saw the Dateline reports but i agree.. He must gave really been ticked off. Did they ever say if he had been drinking?
No not sure if he was drinking, could have been. Spent half my life working in bars. Have seen drunks do a lot of crazy stuff, also have had a lot of people lie about what they did in the military.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:02   #238
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When the frame of the gun is designed, the stress and strain of use is figured in.
Most metal aircraft are assembled with rivets. The sheet metal around these rivets must be periodically checked for fatigue cracks.
Things like this make me concerned about cutting a slot in the frame of a gun to install a safety, or anything else for that matter. Even if done perfectly, in time there's a chance the stress in the materials could start problems.




Stop using common sense. It has been proven time and time again that it has no place here.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:09   #239
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I guess I'm guilty of your first charge: I offered an opinion (that they aren't junk, and it isn't stupid to install one) without first hand knowledge. I relied on the opinion of Mr. Ayoob after years of reading his articles and watching his tv appearances; I respect his opinion and incorporated it into my thinking about the Cominolli safety. I did qualify my statements with the disclaimer that I have no personal experience with the safety device.

Reference to the 1911 safety was to make a theoretical point which, apparently, everybody missed by a mile. My bad. Here is the logic I was trying to use: if keeping ones finger off of the trigger until its time to shoot is a proven, generally accepted practice for a Glock in Condition one, why isn't the same rule applicable to a 1911? [I know the trigger mechanisms are worlds apart; I own 1911s and shoot them from time to time.] Please ignore the mechanical differences, if you can, and think just about 'the rule' applied to a 1911; in Condition 0, if you DON'T TOUCH THE TRIGGER, it won't fire. Same with a cocked revolver. Period. But we know its really hard to handle a 1911 safely without a manual safety because ABSOLUTE TRIGGER CONTROL ISN'T POSSIBLE. Inexperienced Glock owners need to realize that; they need serious training and experience to carry a Glock in Condition 1 safely, in my opinion. The Safe Action trigger isn't perfectly safe in the hands of an inexperienced Glock owner.

I've probably muddled things even further, but there it is. Maybe stupid or asinine as previously suggested, but that's all I was trying to do.
You are still trying to compare safety rules for a light and extremely short trigger pull with a longer heavier pull and a defined break. The lack of a safety is why these pistols were designed this way. It is the same reason Ruger designed a heavy, mile long pull into the LCP and LC9. Just about anything SAO should have a manual safety just because of the trigger pull. DAO is much more forgiving. It really isn't as complicated of a concept as some people want to make it seem.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:15   #240
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Stop using common sense. It has been proven time and time again that it has no place here.
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Old 10-24-2013, 09:41   #241
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I guess I'm guilty of your first charge: I offered an opinion (that they aren't junk, and it isn't stupid to install one) without first hand knowledge. I relied on the opinion of Mr. Ayoob after years of reading his articles and watching his tv appearances; I respect his opinion and incorporated it into my thinking about the Cominolli safety. I did qualify my statements with the disclaimer that I have no personal experience with the safety device.

Reference to the 1911 safety was to make a theoretical point which, apparently, everybody missed by a mile. My bad. Here is the logic I was trying to use: if keeping ones finger off of the trigger until its time to shoot is a proven, generally accepted practice for a Glock in Condition one, why isn't the same rule applicable to a 1911? [I know the trigger mechanisms are worlds apart; I own 1911s and shoot them from time to time.] Please ignore the mechanical differences, if you can, and think just about 'the rule' applied to a 1911; in Condition 0, if you DON'T TOUCH THE TRIGGER, it won't fire. Same with a cocked revolver. Period. But we know its really hard to handle a 1911 safely without a manual safety because ABSOLUTE TRIGGER CONTROL ISN'T POSSIBLE. Inexperienced Glock owners need to realize that; they need serious training and experience to carry a Glock in Condition 1 safely, in my opinion. The Safe Action trigger isn't perfectly safe in the hands of an inexperienced Glock owner.

I've probably muddled things even further, but there it is. Maybe stupid or asinine as previously suggested, but that's all I was trying to do.
Well, hopefully, you understand some fundamentals a little better now...
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:34   #242
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Well, hopefully, you understand some fundamentals a little better now...
Actually, bac, what I understand is that the only comments my posts elicited were criticisms, so you must be right. I have learned a lesson, long overdue, which, hopefully, well keep me from swimming upstream in the future.
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Old 10-24-2013, 10:41   #243
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Originally Posted by PhotoFeller View Post
I guess I'm guilty of your first charge: I offered an opinion (that they aren't junk, and it isn't stupid to install one) without first hand knowledge. I relied on the opinion of Mr. Ayoob after years of reading his articles and watching his tv appearances; I respect his opinion and incorporated it into my thinking about the Cominolli safety. I did qualify my statements with the disclaimer that I have no personal experience with the safety device.

Reference to the 1911 safety was to make a theoretical point which, apparently, everybody missed by a mile. My bad. Here is the logic I was trying to use: if keeping ones finger off of the trigger until its time to shoot is a proven, generally accepted practice for a Glock in Condition one, why isn't the same rule applicable to a 1911? [I know the trigger mechanisms are worlds apart; I own 1911s and shoot them from time to time.] Please ignore the mechanical differences, if you can, and think just about 'the rule' applied to a 1911; in Condition 0, if you DON'T TOUCH THE TRIGGER, it won't fire. Same with a cocked revolver. Period. But we know its really hard to handle a 1911 safely without a manual safety because ABSOLUTE TRIGGER CONTROL ISN'T POSSIBLE. Inexperienced Glock owners need to realize that; they need serious training and experience to carry a Glock in Condition 1 safely, in my opinion. The Safe Action trigger isn't perfectly safe in the hands of an inexperienced Glock owner.

I've probably muddled things even further, but there it is. Maybe stupid or asinine as previously suggested, but that's all I was trying to do.
You can't ignore the mechanical differences.

See this tiny shelf between the hammer and sear below in the picture? The thumb safety helps keep the sear in it's place to make sure those two shelves stay in contact. That red part in there is the thumb safety tab.
General Glocking

Here's another way to view it.
General Glocking

Watch the animation of the Glock in the video below. The Glock is not fully pre-cocked. The Glock continues the rearward pull on the striker and then releases it.


General Glocking

Last edited by Nakanokalronin; 10-24-2013 at 10:46..
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Old 10-24-2013, 11:30   #244
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What am I missing here?

Most newer 80 series 1911's have a firing pin block that won't allow the firing pin to reach the primer unless the grip safety is depressed (some models) or the trigger is pulled rearward (other models).

In either case the grip safety must be depressed for the firing pin to reach the primer.

Even on the early 1911's without FPB the hammer half cock notch should catch the hammer if it is somehow dislodged off the full cock sear notch without the trigger being pulled.

On my early 1911's I have installed titanium (lighter) firing pins to prevent an accidental fire if the gun is dropped & my later 1911's all have the FPB (firing pin block) so they won't discharge unless the grip safety is depressed.

Seems to me the late (FPB) 1911's are safer than the Glock as they have a drop safety, trigger pull safety if the grip safety isn't depressed & a half cock notch to catch the hammer if it should somehow get dislodged from the full cock notch.

On the Glock, if you catch the trigger on something it will fire, on the later 1911 it can't discharge on a trigger pull unless the grip safety is also depressed.
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Old 10-24-2013, 12:03   #245
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Originally Posted by Nakanokalronin View Post
You can't ignore the mechanical differences.

See this tiny shelf between the hammer and sear below in the picture? The thumb safety helps keep the sear in it's place to make sure those two shelves stay in contact. That red part in there is the thumb safety tab.
General Glocking

Here's another way to view it.
General Glocking

Watch the animation of the Glock in the video below. The Glock is not fully pre-cocked. The Glock continues the rearward pull on the striker and then releases it.

Glock Function Animation - YouTube

General Glocking
Thanks. I get it. The animations are helpful.

Last edited by PhotoFeller; 10-24-2013 at 12:07..
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Old 10-24-2013, 19:34   #246
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Stop using common sense. It has been proven time and time again that it has no place here.
Forgive me! I forgot the Glock Talk rules of disorder.
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Old 10-24-2013, 19:45   #247
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He asked for our opinion we gave him our opinion. It's that simple!!!
I think that he asked for information and he got lots of opinions but no info.
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Old 10-24-2013, 20:17   #248
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So, what is the bottom line?
Is that safety a good one?

[quote=Nakanokalronin;20700913]I think the siderlock safety is just a little dumber. At least it doesn't alter the frame.

I tried the siderlock for a while when I had to have a "safety on" to comply with a certain policy.
The siderlock is not a bad idea, the execution sucks. You have to mutilate your own trigger to install theirs. Once installed it works unless you shoot a lot in which case the safety pivot pin starts walking.


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Stupid is relative. Flimsy? Have you tested them? Have you experience with these "flimsy" and "stupid" parts??
It is not stupid if you need it for whatever the reason.
I'd rather not, I have a strong dislike for aftermarket parts. Over the years I have bought all kinds of parts and accessories only to be disappointed many times at the quality. I tend to trust the factory more than some guy out there who is not capable of duplicating a part to the point that it works as well as the factory, never mind better. Proof, any forum member who has been around for a while knows that aftermarket barrels sometimes have to go back to be adjusted or fixed, you never hear that for factory barrels.
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Old 10-24-2013, 23:09   #249
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So, what is the bottom line?
Is that safety a good one?
None of them are good ones...
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Old 10-24-2013, 23:10   #250
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Actually, bac, what I understand is that the only comments my posts elicited were criticisms, so you must be right. I have learned a lesson, long overdue, which, hopefully, well keep me from swimming upstream in the future.
Well, I'm sorry it turned into that. There are some topics that are a bit sensitive around here.
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