GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-12-2013, 19:33   #126
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,827
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy123 View Post
For the most part, there is two answers to that question. 1) The low to middle value widgets will be made in Mexico, S. America, Asia or other places without the ACA. 2) The high value widgets will be made with expensive automated machinery with a few highly compensated employees.

By highly compensated, I mean what we used to know as middle class.
Exactly.

I can have most of the production done anywhere in world.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 21:43   #127
ArtificialGrape
CLM Number 265
Charter Lifetime Member
 
ArtificialGrape's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Colorado Springs
Posts: 5,542
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
A $10K deductible doesnt mean no coverage before $10K. IF normal care you still just pay the co-pays on the PPO plan. It means that the co-insurance for catastrophic doesnt events is at $10K.
Perhaps with a PPO, but not true for high deductible health plans (HDHP; aka consumer directed health plans).

If the family deductible for a HDHP is $3000, then you are paying full out of pocket for prescriptions, doctor visits, lab work etc. until you spend $3k out of pocket, then copays/coinsurance kick in. Some HDHPs do cover wellness/preventative visits at 100% regardless of whether you have met your deductible.

E.g. prior to meeting your deductible you go to your physician for a sinus infection. You're going to pay the full cost of that office visit, and any prescription that may be needed.
ArtificialGrape is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-12-2013, 23:15   #128
KommieforniaGlocker
Senior Member
 
KommieforniaGlocker's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Posts: 3,464
I want to add something

I have had people sit in front me (business owners) that own luxury sports cars, boats, horses, restaurants, and refuse to buy health insurance on the principal that they feel it costs too much.....





It is a choice I pay close to 1,400 a month for a family of four. My Coverage is awesome yes a pay a left but I can pretty much go anywhere I want for just about anything. Hell I don't even need a referral for specialists. My Copays are super low too... Even for major procedures my out of pocket is low. I am happy with my coverage.


I think that hospitals and doctors should be able to refuse people thy can't show they can pay if they are uninsured. If you want the law to force to treat people and make it illegal to turn people than something like Obamacare was only a matter of time.



The fact that people were uninsured never kept them out of the ER's.
KommieforniaGlocker is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 05:57   #129
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,827
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by KommieforniaGlocker View Post
I have had people sit in front me (business owners) that own luxury sports cars, boats, horses, restaurants, and refuse to buy health insurance on the principal that they feel it costs too much.....
How DARE they have the nerve to decide how to spend THEIR money!
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 06:23   #130
Bren
NRA Life Member
 
Bren's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 33,434
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve0853 View Post
Don't worry Dana. In a few short years, we'll have single payer. That's what Obamacare was designed to do....be so bad that single payer would appear to be our salvation.

Single payer WILL be free and everyone will love it. Of course, anybody stupid enough to still be working for a living will be taxed at about 80% to pay for it.

Future High School valedictorians will probably elect to be engineers or mathematicians, anything besides doctors, since working for peanuts after 12 years of rigorous schooling, training, and crushing student loans will not be too appealing.

With doctor shortages will come rationing.....like it or lump it. The few dummies still working for a living won't even be able to use their wonderful "free" health care.
I believe you have summarized it pretty well.
__________________
Open carry activists are to gun rights what the Westboro Baptist Church is to free speech.
Bren is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 06:27   #131
MadeInAmerica
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 414
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
I don't know if I'd go THAT far. Social Security and Medicare are pretty healthy chunks, and percentage wise, I'd guess (since I have done the actual research) that they came as a pretty damn big shock to people.

I'm not saying it's NOT a tax increase - hell, even SCotUS said that - but saying it's the biggest in history might be overstating.

Obamacare is the biggest crap sandwich ever.
MadeInAmerica is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 07:20   #132
Cavalry Doc
Silver Membership
MAJ (USA Ret.)
 
Cavalry Doc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Republic of Texas
Posts: 41,155


Quote:
Originally Posted by MadeInAmerica View Post
Obamacare is the biggest crap sandwich ever.
Unfortunately, it is just another domino falling. We live in interesting times.
Cavalry Doc is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 11:19   #133
retired guard
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stagecoach Nv
Posts: 64
I am a health care worker. Last winter I worked overtime every pay period. This winter I am told because my employer does not wish to provide benefits I am restricted to working two days a week. In the summer months and other times when workload is low I will receive no hours. In the past the times of no hours were made up for by periods of high work load and compensation this will no longer be the case. The result I will be leaving health care for other employment. The hospital has already stated that during peak work loads rather than allow employees to become eligible for benefits patients will be triaged and left untreated. No need for "Death Panels" pneumonia and neglect will usher Granny off this mortal coil.
retired guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 12:08   #134
SevenSixtyTwo
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Tampa Bay Area Fl
Posts: 2,753
Quote:
Originally Posted by retired guard View Post
I am a health care worker. Last winter I worked overtime every pay period. This winter I am told because my employer does not wish to provide benefits I am restricted to working two days a week. In the summer months and other times when workload is low I will receive no hours. In the past the times of no hours were made up for by periods of high work load and compensation this will no longer be the case. The result I will be leaving health care for other employment. The hospital has already stated that during peak work loads rather than allow employees to become eligible for benefits patients will be triaged and left untreated. No need for "Death Panels" pneumonia and neglect will usher Granny off this mortal coil.
They were doing that three years ago when I was waiting in the ER at Morton Plant Hospital for hours in agony. The place was packed. We were being triaged and left untreated. I have more love for cockroaches than I do for O but everything I'm seeing blamed on Obamacare is already happening under the current system. Not sure what to believe.
SevenSixtyTwo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 12:45   #135
retired guard
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stagecoach Nv
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
They were doing that three years ago when I was waiting in the ER at Morton Plant Hospital for hours in agony. The place was packed. We were being triaged and left untreated. I have more love for cockroaches than I do for O but everything I'm seeing blamed on Obamacare is already happening under the current system. Not sure what to believe.
From what I see ACA will accelerate changes already occurring. We have gone from Provider driven care(Most assuredly there were`abuses driving this) To bean counter driven care now we get to experience their abuses instead.
retired guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 17:01   #136
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by retired guard View Post
I am a health care worker. Last winter I worked overtime every pay period. This winter I am told because my employer does not wish to provide benefits I am restricted to working two days a week. In the summer months and other times when workload is low I will receive no hours. In the past the times of no hours were made up for by periods of high work load and compensation this will no longer be the case. The result I will be leaving health care for other employment. The hospital has already stated that during peak work loads rather than allow employees to become eligible for benefits patients will be triaged and left untreated. No need for "Death Panels" pneumonia and neglect will usher Granny off this mortal coil.
Yet again, folks are looking to put the blame in the wrong place. You said it right here, your EMPLOYER decided these things.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 17:16   #137
nursetim
Senior Member
 
nursetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: liberalville N. M.
Posts: 6,613
I wonder if the aca law still allows doctors to not accept insurance?


I know a doctor that doesn't and does quite well. I loved that practice, very low stress.

He advocates for more practices like his and equates it to car maintenance. That health insurance should be for catastrophic losses, like car insurance.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.

Last edited by nursetim; 10-13-2013 at 17:18..
nursetim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 17:27   #138
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
I wonder if the aca law still allows doctors to not accept insurance?


I know a doctor that doesn't and does quite well. I loved that practice, very low stress.

He advocates for more practices like his and equates it to car maintenance. That health insurance should be for catastrophic losses, like car insurance.
I don't recall anything applying to doctors in the ACA (as medical providers, anyway; as employers, they're like everyone else). I think it's actually the weakest part - it wasn't healthcare reform, it was health insurance reform.

But the only way to get control of medical expenses, really, is to control malpractice coverage costs, which means controlling malpractice lawsuits.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 17:44   #139
nursetim
Senior Member
 
nursetim's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: liberalville N. M.
Posts: 6,613
That's a little simplistic don't you think WarCry? While I agree it is important, it's not the only factor.
__________________
Malo periculosam libertatem quam quietum servitium. - I prefer liberty with danger to peace with slavery.
nursetim is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 17:53   #140
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by nursetim View Post
That's a little simplistic don't you think WarCry? While I agree it is important, it's not the only factor.
I don't think it's the only problem with the system, but it is, without a doubt, a big one. Everyone's first reaction to everything in this country is to sue, and doctors are popular targets because everyone "knows" they're rich.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 19:07   #141
rockymtnhorror
Senior Member
 
rockymtnhorror's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Colorado, Metro Denver
Posts: 410
In the 90s, P. J. O'Rourke famously said, “If you think health care is expensive now, wait until you see what it costs when it's free.”

I think we're getting a clue now. My personal policy is non-compliant, and I'll have at least a 30% increase to get a policy that is.
rockymtnhorror is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 19:22   #142
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,827
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Yet again, folks are looking to put the blame in the wrong place. You said it right here, your EMPLOYER decided these things.
No. The employer reacted to government social engineering incentives.

Employers were fine to do business as usual until this started.

Think of it like this.

You and I are standing in line at McDonalds. I am behind you. I decide that I am tired of waiting and I kick you in the back of the knee. I assumed that you would not want to stand in line in front of after I did this and move out of line. You dont particularly like what I did, and turn around and punch me in the nose.

Who is responsible for me being punched in the nose? Me or you? You infact, decided to react that way so it must be that you chose to punch me in the nose.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 20:14   #143
retired guard
Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Stagecoach Nv
Posts: 64
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Yet again, folks are looking to put the blame in the wrong place. You said it right here, your EMPLOYER decided these things.
When I worked for government I would often see administration make decisions that attempted to divert responsibility away from themselves while diverting resources to themselves.(The all tail no teeth philosophy) Line staff placed in untenable positions sometimes made decisions I felt were unethical. Administration dealt with this behavior and would sometimes express that they did not ask for this behavior to which my response was "Your actions didn't make it right but it made it predictable."
retired guard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-13-2013, 22:02   #144
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
No. The employer reacted to government social engineering incentives.

Employers were fine to do business as usual until this started.
Just a very rudimentary Google search shows that the national average for family coverage insurance premiums went up 17.6% from 2004 - 2006 ($10,006 to %11,768). That's 17% in just two years, and that was 4 years before ACA was passed.

Who was throwing that punch?





ETA: Sorry, I forgot to throw the link in there. I do prefer to show where I'm getting stats from, rather than just leaving folks thinking I pulled them from my 4th point of contact:
http://www.ncsl.org/issues-research/...-premiums.aspx (last chart on the page)
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb

Last edited by WarCry; 10-13-2013 at 22:11..
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 03:41   #145
rahrah12
Senior Member
 
rahrah12's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Seattle
Posts: 3,892
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
No. The employer reacted to government social engineering incentives.

Employers were fine to do business as usual until this started.
So now that there is a fine for not offering insurance they decided to not offer it...

Seems like employees should leave the company...
rahrah12 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 06:16   #146
SC Tiger
Shaved Ape
 
SC Tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Okay, so they lay off their workers in order to reduce their operating cost. Great idea. However...

I'm curious but who's going to do the work of these laid off workers? They need 20 amount of workers in order to make 40-widgets. Now that they're laying off 10-workers because of Obamacare...how are they going to make that 40-widgets? Or will they now only make 20-widgets and take a loss in their income?
To make 40 widgits in a week (for instance) you need 20 workers. What you REALLY need is 800 man-hours. Until now the obvious choice is to hire 20 workers at 40 hrs/week.

Now it sounds like what companies are trying to do is hire 40 workers at 20 hours/week. That will "get America back to work" by some statistics but it is a real mess overall.

Or move the whole operation overseas. This is a trend that has been reversing over the past few years (jobs coming back in) but it looks like it could shift back the other way.
__________________
Hug your barking irons as the Devil hugs a witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoking View Post
If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.

Last edited by SC Tiger; 10-14-2013 at 12:40..
SC Tiger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 06:19   #147
SC Tiger
Shaved Ape
 
SC Tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by SevenSixtyTwo View Post
They were doing that three years ago when I was waiting in the ER at Morton Plant Hospital for hours in agony. The place was packed. We were being triaged and left untreated. I have more love for cockroaches than I do for O but everything I'm seeing blamed on Obamacare is already happening under the current system. Not sure what to believe.
Where is that hospital? I think some hospitals in high-population-density areas already have issues like that but we could wind up with that situation everywhere.

Not good.
__________________
Hug your barking irons as the Devil hugs a witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoking View Post
If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.
SC Tiger is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 07:11   #148
Diesel McBadass
Tactically Epic
 
Diesel McBadass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 4,850
People pay 600 for an individual plan? Wow. Why even have kinsurance then.

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Ohub Campfire mobile app
__________________
Rest In Peace Silent_Runner.
Diesel McBadass is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 07:17   #149
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,216
Quote:
Originally Posted by Diesel McBadass View Post
People pay 600 for an individual plan? Wow. Why even have kinsurance then.

Sent from my SCH-R830 using Ohub Campfire mobile app
The average cost PER DAY for inpatient hospital stays is around $1700. That's just the hospital costs. Not the doctors, specialists, anesthesiologists, etc. That's just the facility's charge for using their real estate.

That's why $600 a month is generally seen as a low price - because it's lower than you'll pay straight out of pocket for the bills. If you were saving monthly rather than paying the insurance premium, it would take about 6 months to save for a 2-day hospital stay, JUST for the hospital bills.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-14-2013, 07:26   #150
Diesel McBadass
Tactically Epic
 
Diesel McBadass's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Maine
Posts: 4,850
Ive got tricare reserve select which is 48 a month so had no idea what others pay. Tricare sucks
And is a pain to deal with but guess im getting a bargain 600 would be a third of my monthly income after tax and 100 bucks more than my rent
Sent from my SCH-R830 using Ohub Campfire mobile app
__________________
Rest In Peace Silent_Runner.

Last edited by Diesel McBadass; 10-14-2013 at 07:28..
Diesel McBadass is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:56.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 658
183 Members
475 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42