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Old 10-11-2013, 22:13   #101
KommieforniaGlocker
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I am an Obamacare Certified Broker

I don't discuss it much because I will probably not sell any more health insurance for the simple reason that any one who qualifies and/ or wants the subsidy must get it through the website. Those that don't, can purchase it from me. Problem is that my agency is located in one of the poorest counties in California in terms to state and national income averages. They will continue on Media-Cal or buy from the website that doesn't work.

Also on a different but somewhat related term, today I contacted my cousin (CPA in Southern CA) as it was his birthday and wish him and good one and catch up on family, kids etc. and he asked me about the ACA in regards to business. He told me that he has been spending the last few days with self-employed people and small business owners as to what they need to do to make their income appear on "paper" low enough to qualify for these subsidies.


I am so glad I stuck to to Property and Casualty
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Old 10-11-2013, 22:47   #102
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Originally Posted by Mr981 View Post
An Obamacare horror story--to which I'll add another:

My wife's best friend is a tech at a vet clinic;she does'nt get paid
a lot and had her hours cut due to obama car and her minmal
Health care cover provided by her vet has been cancelled.

Now she finds out the gov.plan for her will cost $300/month or
or pay s fine that will be $600/year in 2015.

So, she's lost her coverage, part of her wages and will end
uppaying a fine because she csn't afford obamacare.
BTW--she voted for him.
BTW--She and all the other damnocrats who voted this community organizer into the the Whitehouse (twice) along with all the Republican voters who sat on their duffs and let it happen are getting what they deserve.

Sadly, the rest of America has to share the same manure sandwich with them!
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Old 10-11-2013, 23:35   #103
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No, they weren't (businesses required to provide healthcare plans for employees)
Correct, businesses weren't legally required to offer healthcare to employees but as a recruiting and retaining feature of employment benefits the employer was facing stiff competition to acquire and keep good workers.

This is all gone after ObamaCare; out the window. Business can now lay off workers at will or reduce their hours to part-time status without any federal interference (given that the Regime is committed to advancing ObamaCare).

United Healthcare just announced they're laying off thousands of doctors because of ObamaCare. This is just the beginning of Third World medical care via importation of low-wage, low-skill "medical" personnel.
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Old 10-11-2013, 23:41   #104
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Correct, businesses weren't legally required to offer healthcare to employees but as a recruiting and retaining feature of employment benefits the employer was facing stiff competition to acquire and keep good workers.

This is all gone after ObamaCare; out the window. Business can now lay off workers at will or reduce their hours to part-time status without any federal interference (given that the Regime is committed to advancing ObamaCare).

United Healthcare just announced they're laying off thousands of doctors because of ObamaCare. This is just the beginning of Third World medical care via importation of low-wage, low-skill "medical" personnel.
Just curious, but how - prior to the ACA - did the federal government prevent employers from laying off or reducing hours of workers?
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Old 10-11-2013, 23:51   #105
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Just curious, but how - prior to the ACA - did the federal government prevent employers from laying off or reducing hours of workers?
Prior to ObamaCare the federal government couldn't prevent private employers from laying off or reducing workers' hours.

After ObamaCare private employers have a financial incentive to do exactly that, which is just what many of them are doing.

Get it?
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Old 10-11-2013, 23:59   #106
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After ObamaCare private employers have a financial incentive to do exactly that. Get it?
Okay, so they lay off their workers in order to reduce their operating cost. Great idea. However...

I'm curious but who's going to do the work of these laid off workers? They need 20 amount of workers in order to make 40-widgets. Now that they're laying off 10-workers because of Obamacare...how are they going to make that 40-widgets? Or will they now only make 20-widgets and take a loss in their income?
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Old 10-12-2013, 00:06   #107
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Okay, so they lay off their workers in order to reduce their operating cost. Great idea. However...

I'm curious but who's going to do the work of these laid off workers? They need 20 amount of workers in order to make 40-widgets. Now that they're laying off 10-workers because of Obamacare...how are they going to make that 40-widgets? Or will they now only make 20-widgets and take a loss in their income?
Simple; the company hires part-time workers to compliment the (now part-time) previously full-time employed workers, all of whom have no company provided healthcare benefits. Because of the bribery of the Obama Regime the company has the financial incentive to shift benefits costs from the company to the federal government.

It's the economic/social/political train wreck heading your way if it hasn't already arrived at your door.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:26   #108
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Okay, so they lay off their workers in order to reduce their operating cost. Great idea. However...

I'm curious but who's going to do the work of these laid off workers? They need 20 amount of workers in order to make 40-widgets. Now that they're laying off 10-workers because of Obamacare...how are they going to make that 40-widgets? Or will they now only make 20-widgets and take a loss in their income?

Export the jobs offshore, of course. Meanwhile, more laid off workers go on Gov't aid. Endless cycle descending into total chaos.
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Old 10-12-2013, 01:34   #109
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All I know is if Obummer screws up my package with my employer I will be insanely pissed off! I work damn hard for my benefit package including my health and life ins. My wife also has a great healthcare package she works her ass off for as a benny.

Many complain about Blue Cross Blue Shield. But we have had nothing but 1st class service from them concerning the wife's and my plan. Both of us have used them in one way or the other for over 30 years through our employers and purchased direct from them when self employed.

There is no way in hell mine or the wifes employer can function with part time employee's. Our work environments are far to fluid. And the books are open for full disclosure. The only thing we can't view or ask about is wages at our current employer's.

The wife is looking for a new job as I type this. She already has more interviews than she can get to over the next two weeks and keep her current job. There are jobs out there, money to be made and benny's to bargain over.

I fear Obummer is going to destroy our simple life of let us do it our way. :(
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Old 10-12-2013, 06:15   #110
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United Healthcare just announced they're laying off thousands of doctors because of ObamaCare. This is just the beginning of Third World medical care via importation of low-wage, low-skill "medical" personnel.
If you think that United Healthcare is laying off these doctors, then you seriously misunderstand our insurance system.
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Old 10-12-2013, 08:25   #111
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Okay, so they lay off their workers in order to reduce their operating cost. Great idea. However...

I'm curious but who's going to do the work of these laid off workers? They need 20 amount of workers in order to make 40-widgets. Now that they're laying off 10-workers because of Obamacare...how are they going to make that 40-widgets? Or will they now only make 20-widgets and take a loss in their income?
Your math is off. 20 workers to make 40 widgets, lay off ten and change production quota by what? 33%? isn't this aca supposed to add 30,000,000 into the healthcare system?

If you don't think the parody piece about ordering a pizza won't be a reality in the not too distant future, then you are either naive or obtuse. Not you specifically FN.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:22   #112
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They were told healthcare would be free.

Pelosi said free health insurance would allow you to become an artist.
It's surprising just how many people can be fooled all of the time. Low information voters.


Low income voters, and the non-working welfare supported middle class will still be happy.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:36   #113
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You are distorting the truth also.

"Government regulation started cutting into the profit margin, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits."

That is not the truth.

New Government regulation, that were not present before Obama care took effect started cutting into the profit margin by placing the company at a competitive disadvantage if we continue to provide you with the same level of benefits and compensation as we previously have, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits and/or working hours which will result in a decrease in your take-home pay."
What a load of s**t! As evidenced by your previous insurance ($10,000 deductible - holy crap), you have maintained profit margin by cutting benefits. Now you can go all the way (increasing profit margin) and cut everything and blame it on the government.

When you inform the employees of the cuts, you will blame it all on the Government. Not once will you tell them it is necessary to do, so that profit margins will be retained. There are other ways to maintain and/or increase profit and remain competitive. Cutting benefits, hours, and wages results in a less productive workforce thus negating your savings.

Stupid moves like this produce short term gains at long term losses.
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Old 10-12-2013, 09:38   #114
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Okay, so they lay off their workers in order to reduce their operating cost. Great idea. However...

I'm curious but who's going to do the work of these laid off workers? They need 20 amount of workers in order to make 40-widgets. Now that they're laying off 10-workers because of Obamacare...how are they going to make that 40-widgets? Or will they now only make 20-widgets and take a loss in their income?
For the most part, there is two answers to that question. 1) The low to middle value widgets will be made in Mexico, S. America, Asia or other places without the ACA. 2) The high value widgets will be made with expensive automated machinery with a few highly compensated employees.

By highly compensated, I mean what we used to know as middle class.
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Old 10-12-2013, 14:13   #115
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Health insurance - medical care - college education - a cheese burger and fries - a gallon of gas - a house - labor (wages)

Simple economic principals apply to all of them - yes even medical care - IT IS NOT ANY DIFFERENT.

What would happen to the price of ______ if the government started handing people buckets of "free" cash that could only be used to buy this item?


One thing a (mostly) free and open market does is provide price discovery -

You have a guy that wants to sell cheese burgers - and you have a guy that is hungry for a cheese burger - if left pretty much alone they will figure out all the details -

How big & thick the burger is and what quality of beef - type of bun - kind of cheese - does it come with fries and a drink - and every other thing you can imagine - including how much it will cost.

There is a natural process that takes place - and over time the details get worked out - price too high no one will buy - price too low company will go out of business.

It is the way things work -

When the government steps in and tries to provide a subsidy it OVER TIME causes the price to INCREASE.

So even if the law is passed with good intentions - let's find a way that more kids can go to college - let's give them low interest loans - sounds good - what could go wrong?

At first it is mostly good - kids that had no cash can now afford to go to college - get better jobs - earn more - pay back the loans - and still have a better life -

But over time IT ALWAYS ends up raising the cost of the product - and at some point it ends up HURTING MORE THAN IT HELPS.

Same with medical care - the government subsidy started when they allowed companies to pay for health care / insurance and get a deduction for the cost - yet the employee did not have to consider it as income.

So the cost of medical care could go up faster than what people would have been able to afford - and go up it did.

Same thing with government subsided mortgages -

Problem is many people think the government can come in and control things and make them better - but the exact opposite ALWAYS happens because government is a bunch of idiots that manages things based on politics not economics -
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Old 10-12-2013, 14:26   #116
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Z71Bill; you're a liar and please stop spreading such falsehoods.

All that needs to happen is for the democrats to declare free health care for all, and so it shall be.

The only thing standing in the way are the obstructionist republicans. Without them, the dems could simply decree free stuff for all, and so much suffering would end.

I'm about to start enjoying my free health care, at a $1500.00 annual increase over what I was paying before our benevolent dictators made their decree. I'm so excited, please don't ruin this for me.
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Old 10-12-2013, 15:18   #117
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Obamacare was designed to be a disaster from the very beginning. It is just a stepping stone to single payer system.

I enjoy telling Obama supporters, "I told you so."

There is no such thing as a free lunch. Suffer.
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Old 10-12-2013, 15:47   #118
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Health insurance - medical care - college education - a cheese burger and fries - a gallon of gas - a house - labor (wages)...

So the cost of medical care could go up faster than what people would have been able to afford - and go up it did.
I agree with your entire post. I will add that in general, despite our societal entitlement mentality, most people accept that they cannot afford certain things...except when it comes to healthcare. A sense of entitlement drives price up.

Everyone thinks they deserve a spine MRI for back pain. Everyone wants a bypass whether they can afford it or not and the government has made their demands law. What would happen if BMW had to give cars to everyone that wanted them?

It's easy to tell someone that can't have a Ferrari. It's hard to tell them no healthcare.
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:24   #119
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I agree with your entire post. I will add that in general, despite our societal entitlement mentality, most people accept that they cannot afford certain things...except when it comes to healthcare. A sense of entitlement drives price up.

Everyone thinks they deserve a spine MRI for back pain. Everyone wants a bypass whether they can afford it or not and the government has made their demands law. What would happen if BMW had to give cars to everyone that wanted them?

It's easy to tell someone that can't have a Ferrari. It's hard to tell them no healthcare.
Bull****. It's easy to tell someone they didn't earn it and they can't have it.

It's hard to tell someone they elected a government that said they would steal it on your behalf and have them come back and say they failed.
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:27   #120
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What's really hard is defending yourself from theft even if it means bullets talking instead of politicians when they have failed to justify the obvious.
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:30   #121
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That's getting easier. Daily.
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:50   #122
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I agree with your entire post. I will add that in general, despite our societal entitlement mentality, most people accept that they cannot afford certain things...except when it comes to healthcare. A sense of entitlement drives price up.

Everyone thinks they deserve a spine MRI for back pain. Everyone wants a bypass whether they can afford it or not and the government has made their demands law. What would happen if BMW had to give cars to everyone that wanted them?

It's easy to tell someone that can't have a Ferrari. It's hard to tell them no healthcare.

You should look around at the rest of the world. There are places where you will be turned away at the door, during your heart attack, if you cannot pay up front. There are places, that if you want unused needles and clean surgical sponges used during a surgery, you provide them up front before the surgery.

Remember, I did not, and cannot cause any problem that you have with your health. I'm just another person that probably lives in the same country. You will eventually die, just like me, and everyone that both of us know. Many people will suffer the symptoms of diseases that they can live with.

I have no responsibility to provide for your healthcare. YOU have a responsibility to provide for your healthcare. If you own a smartphone, have cable TV, have a car less than 3 years old, have any after market parts on your car, have a computer, the internet, jewelry........... and you don't have healthcare, you've spent your money unwisely.

If healthcare is something you wanted, you should have planned ahead, and bought it.
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Old 10-12-2013, 16:59   #123
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You should look around at the rest of the world. There are places where you will be turned away at the door, during your heart attack, if you cannot pay up front. There are places, that if you want unused needles and clean surgical sponges used during a surgery, you provide them up front before the surgery.

Remember, I did not, and cannot cause any problem that you have with your health. I'm just another person that probably lives in the same country. You will eventually die, just like me, and everyone that both of us know. Many people will suffer the symptoms of diseases that they can live with.

I have no responsibility to provide for your healthcare. YOU have a responsibility to provide for your healthcare. If you own a smartphone, have cable TV, have a car less than 3 years old, have any after market parts on your car, have a computer, the internet, jewelry........... and you don't have healthcare, you've spent your money unwisely.

If healthcare is something you wanted, you should have planned ahead, and bought it.


....and we are tracking once again.
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Old 10-12-2013, 19:19   #124
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The problem is that too many people are certainly willing to sacrifice the 'surplus population' - as long as its not them and their's - in order to feel like they aren't paying for someone else (even though the social contract is built on the principle of the affordability of scale - you are ALREADY paying for someone who can't or won't) A solution cannot simply be 'turn away everyone who cannot pay, too bad - so sad'.
Why not?

I will tell you what. Send $1000 check to a non-profit hospital, scan the check, post it on GT.

Lets see how much you yourself really believe this is not a solution. Kick in YOUR money and put YOUR money where YOUR mouth is.

Are you going to walk the walk or just talk the talk?
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Old 10-12-2013, 19:30   #125
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What a load of s**t! As evidenced by your previous insurance ($10,000 deductible - holy crap), you have maintained profit margin by cutting benefits. Now you can go all the way (increasing profit margin) and cut everything and blame it on the government.

When you inform the employees of the cuts, you will blame it all on the Government. Not once will you tell them it is necessary to do, so that profit margins will be retained. There are other ways to maintain and/or increase profit and remain competitive. Cutting benefits, hours, and wages results in a less productive workforce thus negating your savings.

Stupid moves like this produce short term gains at long term losses.
A $10K deductible doesnt mean no coverage before $10K. IF normal care you still just pay the co-pays on the PPO plan. It means that the co-insurance for catastrophic doesnt events is at $10K.

I could move the production to china, now couldnt I? In fact one of my friends fired almost 40% of the company last month. Another 40% will be fired by summer of next year. The comment to me by the CEO was "why should I listen to people whine in Colorado about making $5000 a month when I can pay Chinese worker who will be happy to make $500/month making the parts"
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