GlockTalk.com
Home Forums Classifieds Blogs Today's Posts Search Social Groups



  
SIGN-UP
Notices

Glock Talk
Welcome To The Glock Talk Forums.
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 10-10-2013, 09:54   #26
10mm Sonny
Senior Member
 
10mm Sonny's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 1,755
Quote:
Originally Posted by arclight610 View Post
Somehow Obama will spin this on the companies, saying they aren't following the spirit of the law or some BS like that.
Limbaugh Theorem
10mm Sonny is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 09:59   #27
walt cowan
Senior Member
 
walt cowan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: absurdistan
Posts: 9,999
When people have lost every thing and have nothing more to lose... They lose it.
__________________
the nsa was the first to read this post. eric was the second.
walt cowan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 10:05   #28
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,828
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
I think you should contact the insurance company directly, because I'm pretty sure you've got some of that incorrect.
Oh, I read the letter quite clearly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Any reason they set the number at 1000? Because small business is defined at 50 by the federal law.
Um..think about it. It is an arbitrary number designed to get people more low risk people into the exchange...

As an insurance company, do you want only high risk?



Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Cancelled by whom, and for what reason? I've not heard of any place flat-out cancelling any and all private, individual health insurance plans.
There are no PPO, only HMO, that our broker has found for individual plans. We are having the broker find individual plans for our employees that would work for them.





Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
And, as I clearly stated, I said I was guessing. But if, as a company, the plan was only $600/month per employee TOTAL, you were due for a rate increase, at the very least, anyway.
It was a $10K yearly family deductible plan but had good co-pay coverage. Just if something catetrophic happened, someone needed to pay the first $10K. The amount of the deductible greatly affects the rate.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Ah, so you're on the other side of the equation. You're looking to find ways to save the company money, even if that means cutting hours and benefits to the employees so you don't have to deal with the health insurance.
My job is to ensure the company makes money for the shareholders. Full stop.




Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
So, you're saying "I got mine, and I'll make sure I continue to get mine, and blame the government for all those under me that I have to strip away from."?
Will you send me $1000 out of your bank account? After all, "you got yours".

Go back to the answer above. Why would I pay employees more than necessary? That lowers profits. If every company around is cutting those making $15/hr to 29 hours per week and cutting benefits,why would I put the company at a competitive disadvantage by not doing the same?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 10:25   #29
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
It was a $10K yearly family deductible plan but had good co-pay coverage. Just if something catetrophic happened, someone needed to pay the first $10K. The amount of the deductible greatly affects the rate.
Gotcha, that makes sense. I've dealt with very few plans with deductibles that high, so that didn't quite click as to the reason for the low premiums. I'm with ya now.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
Go back to the answer above. Why would I pay employees more than necessary? That lowers profits. If every company around is cutting those making $15/hr to 29 hours per week and cutting benefits,why would I put the company at a competitive disadvantage by not doing the same?
And while you might not believe me when I say it, I agree with you. Businesses have the goal to make profits (well, other than non-profits, but they still need to stay in the black). And as long as the employees are dealing with your methods, then it's all good. As someone else posted, employees will vote with their feet. I have NO problem with any of that, at all.

It's when you take a business, profit-based decision and say "The government made me do it!" that I take issue. Government regulations will always be a part of the equation. But stand up and be honest. It's not "Government regulation made me cut your benefits!" It's "Government regulation started cutting into the profit margin, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits."

Taking out that middle portion makes for a distorted view of the truth.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 10:46   #30
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,828
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post

It's when you take a business, profit-based decision and say "The government made me do it!" that I take issue. Government regulations will always be a part of the equation. But stand up and be honest. It's not "Government regulation made me cut your benefits!" It's "Government regulation started cutting into the profit margin, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits."

Taking out that middle portion makes for a distorted view of the truth.
You are distorting the truth also.

"Government regulation started cutting into the profit margin, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits."

That is not the truth.

New Government regulation, that were not present before Obama care took effect started cutting into the profit margin by placing the company at a competitive disadvantage if we continue to provide you with the same level of benefits and compensation as we previously have, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits and/or working hours which will result in a decrease in your take-home pay."
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 10:51   #31
Powder
Senior Member
 
Powder's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Tampa, FL
Posts: 934
Quote:
Originally Posted by DanaT View Post
You are distorting the truth also.

"Government regulation started cutting into the profit margin, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits."

That is not the truth.

New Government regulation, that were not present before Obama care took effect started cutting into the profit margin by placing the company at a competitive disadvantage if we continue to provide you with the same level of benefits and compensation as we previously have, so to make up for that, I have to cut your benefits and/or working hours which will result in a decrease in your take-home pay."

The government is screwing us so we are gonna pass the buck and screw you!
__________________
"Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death."
Powder is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 10:57   #32
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,828
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
The government is screwing us so we are gonna pass the buck and screw you!
Nope. We are passing no buck. This is a govt issue.

Like it or not, as an employee many of you will have to live with the new reality. If it is not hitting you yet, it will in future.

Being ignorant that management is doing something, doesnt mean management is not looking into what is happening and how it affects the bottom line.
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 10:59   #33
DanaT
Pharaoh
 
DanaT's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: CO & Baden –Württemberg
Posts: 15,828
Blog Entries: 1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
The government is screwing us so we are gonna pass the buck and screw you!
Also, 3% medical device excise tax was added. Do you REALLY think I took a 3% hit on margins and absorbed this tax?

Or do you maybe think I raised my prices 7% to cover the tax and the burden associated with compliance of the excise tax? Now, if you think that I raised prices 7% who do you think pays for this in the end?
__________________
Quote:
Twice a week? 14 times a month?
Quote:
2x4=8, not 14.
Many of the truths that we cling to depend on our point of view.
DanaT is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 11:00   #34
syntaxerrorsix
CLM Number 301
Anti-Federalist
 
syntaxerrorsix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lakeland, FL.
Posts: 9,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by Powder View Post
The government is screwing us so we are gonna pass the buck and screw you!
The whole point of a company is to remain profitable. It isn't to screw anyone.
__________________
Sappers Forward
841st Eng (Cbt/Hvy) 81ARCOM, 84th Eng (Cbt/Hvy) 2ACR, 40th Eng (Mech) 1AD, 588th Eng (Mech) 4ID

syntaxerrorsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 11:12   #35
M2 Carbine
Senior Member
 
M2 Carbine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 28,649
Quote:
Like it or not, as an employee many of you will have to live with the new reality. If it is not hitting you yet, it will in future.
obamacare is the biggest tax increase and the biggest waste of money in the country's history.

Bottom line is, since it will cost your employer big bucks to operate within the government laws (what the hell they are?)
the money WILL come from the employees and consumers.

And this is just the beginning.
M2 Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 11:19   #36
WarCry
Senior Member
 
WarCry's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: IL, on the banks of the Muddy River
Posts: 7,217
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 Carbine View Post
obamacare is the biggest tax increase and the biggest waste of money in the country's history.
I don't know if I'd go THAT far. Social Security and Medicare are pretty healthy chunks, and percentage wise, I'd guess (since I have done the actual research) that they came as a pretty damn big shock to people.

I'm not saying it's NOT a tax increase - hell, even SCotUS said that - but saying it's the biggest in history might be overstating.
__________________
"If you have something to say, now would be a perfect time to keep it to yourself." --Col. Chester Phillips
"If you believe everything you read, better not read." --Japanese proverb
WarCry is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 11:29   #37
series1811
CLM Number
Enforcerator.
 
series1811's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Retired, but not expired.
Posts: 14,311
Obama supporters being forced to contort more and more, trying to defend this Obamination.

It's going to get harder and harder to convince people that Obamacare isn't screwing up their health insurance after Obamacare screws up their health insurance.
__________________
I sure miss the country I grew up in.

Last edited by series1811; 10-10-2013 at 11:29..
series1811 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 11:39   #38
M2 Carbine
Senior Member
 
M2 Carbine's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Texas
Posts: 28,649
Quote:
I'm not saying it's NOT a tax increase - hell, even SCotUS said that - but saying it's the biggest in history might be overstating.
You (we) haven't seen even the tip of the iceberg yet.

obamacare is going to make SS and Medicare look like chicken feed.

If you like SS and Medicare you are going to love obamacare.

If we can't stop it now, your children and grandchildren will curse us for obamacare far worse then we curse our elders for SS and Medicare.


.

Last edited by M2 Carbine; 10-10-2013 at 11:45..
M2 Carbine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 12:08   #39
Steve0853
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 5,087
Quote:
Originally Posted by M2 Carbine View Post
You (we) haven't seen even the tip of the iceberg yet.

If we can't stop it now, your children and grandchildren will curse us for obamacare far worse then we curse our elders for SS and Medicare..
Sorry M2, but here's probably how a future conversation between my granchild and her future granchild will go.....


"My Grandaddy and Grandma were rich....they lived in a house that they owned all by themselves and no one else lived with them. Their yard was even bigger than the one here at the apartment complex and they had fields and woods that were bigger than the park where you play."

"Yes, child, I know that's impossible to believe, but you know your friend Sarah? Her grandaddy's daddy owned his own home, too. He was very rich."

"My daddy said taxes got so high that no one could afford to own a house or land. I don't know why no one has their own land anymore, but I guess it don't seem FAIR that one person could own a whole big house or a big bunch of land while others don't have anything."

"Now, let's go back inside. We don't want Mr. Security Man to catch us outside after curfew."
Steve0853 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 12:36   #40
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,846
I lean a little to the conservative side on fiscal issues - but this is still an honest question -

The government is taking over a larger role in health insurance and medical care.

Can anyone provide me with a list of 3 or 4 major programs that the government has that work really well?

Work really well = Solve the problem at a reasonable cost.

If they can't manage ANYTHING - how could anyone expect that the way they manage health care will be any different?
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 12:40   #41
SC Tiger
Shaved Ape
 
SC Tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by Z71bill View Post
I lean a little to the conservative side on fiscal issues - but this is still an honest question -

The government is taking over a larger role in health insurance and medical care.

Can anyone provide me with a list of 3 or 4 major programs that the government has that work really well?

Work really well = Solve the problem at a reasonable cost.

If they can't manage ANYTHING - how could anyone expect that the way they manage health care will be any different?
Basically the only thing the government does really well is blow stuff up.
__________________
Hug your barking irons as the Devil hugs a witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoking View Post
If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.
SC Tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 12:46   #42
SC Tiger
Shaved Ape
 
SC Tiger's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 6,997
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post

Cancelled by whom, and for what reason? I've not heard of any place flat-out cancelling any and all private, individual health insurance plans.
I have a friend who had the health insurance cut for his wife and kids by BCBS. Not sure why but it was the right timeframe to be because of the ACA. They were covered under his insurance as a state employee (wife was stay-at-home mom).

On the part-time thing - what happens when a company has a bunch of part-timers at 28-29 hours, and then all the sudden they have a spike in demand and need overtime?

What the government has not figured out is that big business is 100x smarter than they are, and will figure out ways around whatever laws like this that they pass.
__________________
Hug your barking irons as the Devil hugs a witch

Quote:
Originally Posted by Keoking View Post
If you're gonna be stupid, don't pull up short. Saddle up and ride it all the way in.
SC Tiger is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 12:47   #43
Z71bill
Senior Member
 
Z71bill's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 10,846
Quote:
Originally Posted by SC Tiger View Post
Basically the only thing the government does really well is blow stuff up.
But we must spend 10X more that anyone else in order to even accomplish that.
Z71bill is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 13:27   #44
Sharkey
Senior Member
 
Sharkey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DFW, TX
Posts: 3,575
Quote:
Originally Posted by series1811 View Post
I'm amazed that so many people who voted for Obama and supported Obamacare didn't see this coming.

How dumb can you be?

People being forced into the exchanges? You gotta be really dumb to not have seen that but hey, they voted the socialist tyrant in a 2nd time so you know they are pretty dumb.
__________________
Our perception of God determines our communication with Him.
Sharkey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 13:41   #45
Cubdriver
Senior Member
 
Cubdriver's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Southeastern Litchfield County, CT
Posts: 1,695
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr981 View Post
An Obamacare horror story--to which I'll add another:

My wife's best friend is a tech at a vet clinic;she does'nt get paid
a lot and had her hours cut due to obama car and her minmal
Health care cover provided by her vet has been cancelled.

Now she finds out the gov.plan for her will cost $300/month or
or pay s fine that will be $600/year in 2015.

So, she's lost her coverage, part of her wages and will end
uppaying a fine because she csn't afford obamacare.
BTW--she voted for him.
I felt sorry for her up until I read the last line. Then all sympathy evaporated.

-Pat
__________________
Speed has never killed anyone. Suddenly becoming stationary… that's what gets you.. (J. Clarkson)
Cubdriver is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 15:57   #46
md2lgyk
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: WV
Posts: 2,898
Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
So your view is "I already have government health insurance, so I don't give a damn about the rest of you!!!"?

Sounds like members of Congress, to me.
Well, I'm not sure why I should give a damn about you or your situation. Everybody has choices in their life. You probably had the opportunity to pursue a military career, so don't rag on me if you didn't do it. As for Medicare, I paid into it my entire working life (and still do). I can't help it if your choices are a worse deal - I didn't vote for that fool we have in the White House.
__________________
"The great object is, that every man be armed. Everyone who is able may have a gun." - Patrick Henry
md2lgyk is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 16:00   #47
Mr981
Senior Member
 
Mr981's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: N. Central OH
Posts: 2,103
Send a message via Yahoo to Mr981
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cubdriver View Post
I felt sorry for her up until I read the last line. Then all sympathy evaporated.

-Pat
Let's put it this way, this is one koolaid drinker whose eyes have been opened. Better late than never.
FWIW, this little episode illustrated to me why it made sense to let Obamacare proceed rather than make a futile effort to stop it; once
the general population of working stiffs see how they have been screwed
over by the pelosi/reid brain trust we'll have a better chance of taking
control of the senate.
Mr981 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 16:04   #48
Green Mountain Boy
Senior Member
 
Green Mountain Boy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: The Green Mountain State
Posts: 1,413
I am experiencing the exact same thing. Thankfully my better half can add me to her plan.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
__________________
"Whatever Tomorrow Brings I'll Be There With Open Arms and Open Eyes" Incubus

NECC #64

Last edited by Green Mountain Boy; 10-10-2013 at 16:06..
Green Mountain Boy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 16:11   #49
racerford
Senior Member
 
racerford's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: DFW area
Posts: 4,870


Quote:
Originally Posted by Green Mountain Boy View Post
I am experiencing the exact same thing. Thankfully my better half can add me to her plan.


Posted using Outdoor Hub Campfire
Until her plan changes too.
racerford is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10-10-2013, 16:22   #50
syntaxerrorsix
CLM Number 301
Anti-Federalist
 
syntaxerrorsix's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Lakeland, FL.
Posts: 9,515
Quote:
Originally Posted by md2lgyk View Post
Well, I'm not sure why I should give a damn about you or your situation. Everybody has choices in their life. You probably had the opportunity to pursue a military career, so don't rag on me if you didn't do it. As for Medicare, I paid into it my entire working life (and still do). I can't help it if your choices are a worse deal - I didn't vote for that fool we have in the White House.


Your argument is you "think" you made wise choices with the government and everyone forced by the government didn't?

Don't give a damn, but don't think that everyone that was only "able" to serve long enough to get retirement made the right choice. I get 10% disability for 10 years of service and an extensive ACL surgery and that didn't cover the 100% increase in my private health care last month.

Try not to be so smug.
__________________
Sappers Forward
841st Eng (Cbt/Hvy) 81ARCOM, 84th Eng (Cbt/Hvy) 2ACR, 40th Eng (Mech) 1AD, 588th Eng (Mech) 4ID


Last edited by syntaxerrorsix; 10-10-2013 at 16:24..
syntaxerrorsix is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump




All times are GMT -6. The time now is 22:23.



Homepage
FAQ
Forums
Calendar
Advertise
Gallery
GT Wiki
GT Blogs
Social Groups
Classifieds


Users Currently Online: 1,188
368 Members
820 Guests

Most users ever online: 2,244
Nov 11, 2013 at 11:42