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Old 10-03-2013, 18:39   #26
barbedwiresmile
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Obamacare is working exactly as designed: Soon, the pain will be so great that we will ask for single-payer.
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Old 10-03-2013, 19:32   #27
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Maybe someone here can confirm...

Did I hear correctly yesterday that only 3 million people attempted to enroll?

If that's true, that certainly doesn't bode well for the ACA. I'll bet the administration was counting on much higher numbers than that.

Anyone know?
I heard there were 4.7 million hits on the website on day 1. From CNN - who pointed out that 4.6 million of them were probably reporters like them! They were joking about the number, naturally, but the truth is a lot of those hits were reporters, and I'd bet I wasn't the only person in the medical field to (try to) hit it myself to be better prepared to field questions that we'll inevitably be getting.
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Old 10-03-2013, 19:37   #28
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I heard there were 4.7 million hits on the website on day 1. From CNN - who pointed out that 4.6 million of them were probably reporters like them! They were joking about the number, naturally, but the truth is a lot of those hits were reporters, and I'd bet I wasn't the only person in the medical field to (try to) hit it myself to be better prepared to field questions that we'll inevitably be getting.
That's kinda what I thought, too. I just don't see people flocking out in droves to sign up for this.
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Old 10-04-2013, 08:56   #29
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Obamacare is working exactly as designed: Soon, the pain will be so great that we will ask for single-payer.
I get the feeling we'll be hearing more and more of this in the days to come. The leftists that despise Obama now for helping the evil capitalists in the insurance industry may one day hold him up as a hero...and incredible chessmaster...!
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Old 10-07-2013, 08:22   #30
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Im wondering what you to to prove insurance to avoid tax give policy card to tax agent?

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Old 10-07-2013, 08:56   #31
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I get the feeling we'll be hearing more and more of this in the days to come. The leftists that despise Obama now for helping the evil capitalists in the insurance industry may one day hold him up as a hero...and incredible chessmaster...!
I don't know that this is really chess, or a surprise. Several leading democrats were on the record as saying that Obamacare was simply paving the way for single-payer. In fact, I remember a widely distributed clip of Barney Frank saying exactly this. Would post it but I didn't bother saving it. It probably comes right up on Google. I believe this was always the plan.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:04   #32
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It will be a 2 level system. People who rely on the govt will get what the govt says they are worth. People who can pay will get the care they can afford.

I'm already part of the 2 level system. The insurance company doesn't like my doctors. So I pay for the better care that I get. It isn't cheap, and everybody is going to find that out.
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Old 10-07-2013, 09:40   #33
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Obamacare was never intended to work. It's simply the first step in government controlled health care. When this fiasco blows up, the American People will DEMAND that congress fix it. Then, they'll introduce what they wanted all along. Government controlled health care. And we the people will be glad they "fixed" it. :(
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Old 10-07-2013, 11:27   #34
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Obamacare was never intended to work. It's simply the first step in government controlled health care. When this fiasco blows up, the American People will DEMAND that congress fix it. Then, they'll introduce what they wanted all along. Government controlled health care. And we the people will be glad they "fixed" it. :(
You got that right!
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Old 10-07-2013, 12:21   #35
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Obamacare was never intended to work. It's simply the first step in government controlled health care. When this fiasco blows up, the American People will DEMAND that congress fix it. Then, they'll introduce what they wanted all along. Government controlled health care. And we the people will be glad they "fixed" it. :(
While blaming the greedy insurance companies, the free market and Capitalism for any failures. It's their modus operandi.
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Old 10-08-2013, 07:29   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mnotlyon View Post
Obamacare was never intended to work. It's simply the first step in government controlled health care. When this fiasco blows up, the American People will DEMAND that congress fix it. Then, they'll introduce what they wanted all along. Government controlled health care. And we the people will be glad they "fixed" it. :(
That's what I suspect, too, and why even the Democrats dont' care if it is successful or not. As a failure, they feel it will open the door to government completely controlling health care, which is obviously their end game.
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Old 10-08-2013, 09:39   #37
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...It is a Ponzi scheme in the sense that, to make things affordable for the old, expensive people, they rely on young, cheap people to enter the system with a bunch of money...
And that's different from how health insurance works today in what way, exactly?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:03   #38
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And that's different from how health insurance works today in what way, exactly?
In that it's mandatory and you are fined if you don't participate?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:07   #39
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In that it's mandatory and you are fined if you don't participate?
Which was not included in his "ponzi scheme" point, at all.

Right?
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:11   #40
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Which was not included in his "ponzi scheme" point, at all.

Right?
Well, as bad as Ponzi schemes are when you join them of your own volition, I think it would be worse to be made to join one.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:22   #41
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Well, as bad as Ponzi schemes are when you join them of your own volition, I think it would be worse to be made to join one.
Not at all the question being discussed, but I agree.

However, I do feel that uninsured folks who treat ERs like their primary care docs need to be addressed. The way ACA addresses it is far from what I would consider ideal, but it's better than nothing.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:24   #42
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Not at all the question being discussed, but I agree.

However, I do feel that uninsured folks who treat ERs like their primary care docs need to be addressed. The way ACA addresses it is far from what I would consider ideal, but it's better than nothing.
I think the idea was to just throw something up against the wall and get it to stick while Obama controlled both Houses, figuring that even a screwed up journey to socialized medicine had to start somewhere.
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Old 10-08-2013, 10:40   #43
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One thing I don't understand is how the ACA passed in the first place if the whole GOP is against it. I know that I'm not the only one that doesn't get that. Did some of the Republicans flip flop on supporting it?
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Old 10-08-2013, 11:34   #44
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One thing I don't understand is how the ACA passed in the first place if the whole GOP is against it. I know that I'm not the only one that doesn't get that. Did some of the Republicans flip flop on supporting it?
Democrats controlled both the House and the Senate for the first two years Obama was President. The Democrats lost the House in 2010, arguably because of Obamacare (at least that is my opinion).
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:38   #45
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I think the idea was to just throw something up against the wall and get it to stick while Obama controlled both Houses, figuring that even a screwed up journey to socialized medicine had to start somewhere.

Well, I think incentivizing people to get insurance who have been uninsured is a good step. More insurees, especially relatively young and healthy ones, reduces cost for everyone that currently has insurance.

Tort reform is a HUGE component that should have been included, that sadly was not.
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Old 10-08-2013, 12:52   #46
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One thing I've learned about federal programs. Whether they work or not, whether they were a good idea or not, whether they are financially feasible or not, whether they accomplish anything or not, once they are in place, they are in place forever.

I suspect it will be the same with Obamacare.
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Old 10-08-2013, 13:25   #47
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From a friend, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION...posted on the Obamacare website today "I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition
(Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 "Silver Plan" and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deducti...ble!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I "opt-out" and chose to continue along with no insurance. I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the "REPERCUSSIONS PORTION" for "non-payment" of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with "Non-Payment" and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy "Automatically withdraw" your "penalties" weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is "Free" or even "Affordable.
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Old 10-08-2013, 13:31   #48
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Yeah, apparently a lot of people are getting that e-mail, who log into the system, but then decide they can't afford the insurance. I would really like to be a fly on the wall when my former step-daughter, an Obama welfare ward, signs on and finds out what she is expected to pay.

From Michelle Malkin's blog:
Quote:
This “Obamacare awakening” in a nutshell, coming soon to millions more (h/t Instapundit):

Cindy Vinson and Tom Waschura are big believers in the Affordable Care Act. They vote independent and are proud to say they helped elect and re-elect President Barack Obama.

A little later:

“I really don’t like the Republican tactics, but at least now I can understand why they are so pissed about this. When you take $10,000 out of my family’s pocket each year, that’s otherwise disposable income or retirement savings that will not be going into our local economy.”

Both Vinson and Waschura have adjusted gross incomes greater than four times the federal poverty level — the cutoff for a tax credit. And while both said they anticipated their rates would go up, they didn’t realize they would rise so much.

“Of course, I want people to have health care,” Vinson said. “I just didn’t realize I would be the one who was going to pay for it personally.”
Regardless, I think the Republicans made a huge mistake not just sitting back and watching this train wreck unfold, only getting up as the last car left the track, to say, "We tried to tell you."

Even if they are successful in stopping Obamacare before the damage is done, Obama and the media will just go on and on about how the Republicans killed free health care for everybody. Much better to let it crash.
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Old 10-08-2013, 13:31   #49
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From a friend, PAY CLOSE ATTENTION...posted on the Obamacare website today "I actually made it through this morning at 8:00 A.M. I have a preexisting condition
(Type 1 Diabetes) and my income base was 45K-55K annually I chose tier 2 "Silver Plan" and my monthly premiums came out to $597.00 with $13,988 yearly deducti...ble!!! There is NO POSSIBLE way that I can afford this so I "opt-out" and chose to continue along with no insurance. I received an email tonight at 5:00 P.M. informing me that my fine would be $4,037 and could be attached to my yearly income tax return. Then you make it to the "REPERCUSSIONS PORTION" for "non-payment" of yearly fine. First, your drivers license will be suspended until paid, and if you go 24 consecutive months with "Non-Payment" and you happen to be a home owner, you will have a federal tax lien placed on your home. You can agree to give your bank information so that they can easy "Automatically withdraw" your "penalties" weekly, bi-weekly or monthly! This by no means is "Free" or even "Affordable.

Absolute garbage.

Go to this calculator here: http://www.healthinsurance.org/learn...ty-calculator/

Looks like the fine for someone who makes $55K/yr who decides to remain uninsured would be about $450. Even at $150K/yr AGI, the penalty is only ~$1400.

This took me all of 30 seconds to Google and calculate.

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Old 10-08-2013, 13:38   #50
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FWIW, you'd have to have an AGI of about $410K/yr to get close to that $4037 fine....
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