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Old 09-17-2013, 09:26   #1
WarCry
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Coverage of the Navy Yards shooting

The other thread was closed down (and anyone that reads it knows exactly why), but there was one of the last comments that I think needs to be challenged. Folks here like to talk about the media outlets not caring about facts, then you see comments like this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by arkdweller22
Has anyone else noticed that the latest CNN article is trying to humanize this guy, calling him by his first name only?
After the intro to the article they state the following: "the shooting rampage ended with the death of Alexis, 34." Really? Like he's the victim now?

They go one to state things like: "Alexis felt he wasn't paid properly" and "Alexis had no ideological differences with the government or Navy". Those are just a couple of samples.
Typically when articles on spree killers are written, they only use a spree killer's last or full name, like Dorner or James Holmes, etc.

It's insidious and disgusting really. I don't understand it.

Which would be great, if it wasn't completely wrong. The shooter's name was Aaron Alexis. So the entire post I quoted here was wrong.

Perhaps before judging others on use (or lack thereof) of facts, everyone should make sure they know what they're talking about before posting.
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:40   #2
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:54   #3
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I just posted a message in the closed thread, saying that someone should open a new thread, to post developments to this story. I also said that I DO NOT want any of the race-baiting or epithets in this thread that popped up in the other one. I also do not want the same arguments dragged into this thread.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:05   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
The other thread was closed down (and anyone that reads it knows exactly why), but there was one of the last comments that I think needs to be challenged. Folks here like to talk about the media outlets not caring about facts, then you see comments like this:




Which would be great, if it wasn't completely wrong. The shooter's name was Aaron Alexis. So the entire post I quoted here was wrong.

Perhaps before judging others on use (or lack thereof) of facts, everyone should make sure they know what they're talking about before posting.
Yep, I screwed that one up. I thought his name was Alexis Aaron. I went back to correct it but the thread was already locked.

My apologies to anyone that was misled by this.
If only I spoke Malayalam this would not have happened...


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Old 09-17-2013, 10:22   #5
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I just read an article indicating that the shooter had a CCW from Texas. Prior to being issued the CCW, he had shot out all of the tires on a construction truck which he was upset about blocking his path. He later claimed to have been in a blackout during the shooting of the tires. On another occasion, he shot through the ceiling of his apartment into the apartment of a neighbor he was having a dispute over noise with. He claimed this was a "gun cleaning" accident as his hands with slippery from doing dishes.

Having the Texas CCW enabled him to buy a gun in VA (not sure if any of this is true).

The author said this is why we need mental health records in the background checks and no reciprocity.

It sounds to me like he should have got charged with a felony for shooting out the tires, and that would have prevented him from getting a CCW or purchasing a gun through legal means.

I am very pro gun, but I wonder why people are not charged with crimes some times.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:32   #6
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Originally Posted by Lesh View Post
I just read an article indicating that the shooter had a CCW from Texas. Prior to being issued the CCW, he had shot out all of the tires on a construction truck which he was upset about blocking his path. He later claimed to have been in a blackout during the shooting of the tires. On another occasion, he shot through the ceiling of his apartment into the apartment of a neighbor he was having a dispute over noise with. He claimed this was a "gun cleaning" accident as his hands with slippery from doing dishes.

Having the Texas CCW enabled him to buy a gun in VA (not sure if any of this is true).

The author said this is why we need mental health records in the background checks and no reciprocity.

It sounds to me like he should have got charged with a felony for shooting out the tires, and that would have prevented him from getting a CCW or purchasing a gun through legal means.

I am very pro gun, but I wonder why people are not charged with crimes some times.
Regarding the Seattle incident, I read another article(maybe I can find it) that said the police submitted the case to the DA/city attorney/whatever they call it but it was never filed. The DA/city attorney/whatever they call it claimed to have never received the case for review.

Either or both could be lying or it could have been a simple clerical error. I'm sure they'll figure it out since nobody is going to want to be "blamed" for what happened.

And I'm glad that this topic hasn't been completely locked down as I get more useful links from here than general news sources.

PS:
Found it. It's an AP story but found the info in a Brietbart link:

http://www.breitbart.com/Breitbart-T...attle-Shooting
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:33   #7
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Thank you Eric for allowing a informational thread to continue.
I find often I get more accurate info online (here) of events like this. Also hints (that often turn out to be true) of how something might have happened.

Regards most bases. Up till @ 8 yrs ago I went on wide variety of bases. (mainly Air Force but couple Army and one Navy I can reacall)
Pre 9/11 I used my PADI scuba card as id. Never a issue. After the few times I used it no issue.
One time I drove non-stop MN to FL McDille with one ton loaded. 15 yr old 4wd dsl.. Got paper (truck permit) drove up to gate and waved thru. My wife is behind me in badged car/full uniform.... She gets pulled over and car searched. (yes she is a babe) I was unshaven, likely smelly, laughing...

Thing is its impossible to search every car/truck comming on base. I drove a Penske 24' and they wanted to search it.

I said "Ok but if you find a blue single file folder with CARS lable please keep it out" I open back, he looked (at piles of boxes) and told me to "drive on"
To search that for handgun would take 4 men a hr (and thats being messy) It just is not possible
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:36   #8
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Our society's laws are not meant to keep people at bay for their possible futuristic actions.

With freedom comes certain risks.

Does it matter if the dude shouldn't have or couldn't have legally bought a gun or guns? He could have gotten it via illegal means if he really meant to kill people anyway.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:40   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Our society's laws are not meant to keep people at bay for their possible futuristic actions.

With freedom comes certain risks.

Does it matter if the dude shouldn't have or couldn't have legally bought a gun or guns? He could have gotten it via illegal means if he really meant to kill people anyway.
He could have got them illegally, absolutely. I think however, that once you have been convicted of criminal behavior, you should forfeit the legal right to some things.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:48   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Our society's laws are not meant to keep people at bay for their possible futuristic actions.
Whether I agree with it or not, you are just wrong. Felons can't own firearms because, in society's estimation, they are too dangerous and can't be trusted. Sex and arson convicts are, in most cases, required to register for life and keep the government appraised of their living location at all times because society says they can't be trusted(even though we let them out of prison).

In reality, all laws are designed to "keep people at bay for their possible futuristic actions." Whether they are effective or not is another matter.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:53   #11
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Did anyone notice that the media reported the shooter used an AR-15---- until it wasn't an AR-15?

Navy Yard shooting: AR-15, back in the news -- briefly

So, the shooter had no AR or any other "assault rifle", only a shotgun and two handguns. Yet, we have Feinstein and all the usual suspects trotting out the gun control mantra as they dance over the dead bodies. Scumbags!

Before long our illustrious Presidente will go on air claiming the nutcase schizo murderer is actually a victim of intolerance and racial profiling, and that Obamacare would have prevented his implosion if only the House Republicans would stop their obstruction.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:58   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kilrain View Post
Whether I agree with it or not, you are just wrong. Felons can't own firearms because, in society's estimation, they are too dangerous and can't be trusted. Sex and arson convicts are, in most cases, required to register for life and keep the government appraised of their living location at all times because society says they can't be trusted(even though we let them out of prison).

In reality, all laws are designed to "keep people at bay for their possible futuristic actions." Whether they are effective or not is another matter.
Actually, the felon thing is part of the punishment for past actions, not relating to possible future actions. It's just one of the repercussions of you decide to break the law.

It does, in some cases, have the added benefit of being a deterrent for possible future actions, but really if a felon wants a gun to commit future bad acts, they'll get them. There will be an extra charge, but that's also after the fact.
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Old 09-17-2013, 10:59   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by arkdweller22 View Post
...If only I spoke Malayalam this would not have happened...
I thought it was 'Open carry could have prevented this'?

Anyway, this whole thing is a tragic loss of life - we are left to guess as to the motives of someone who made the choices he made that day.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:04   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lesh View Post
I just read an article indicating that the shooter had a CCW from Texas. Prior to being issued the CCW, he had shot out all of the tires on a construction truck which he was upset about blocking his path. He later claimed to have been in a blackout during the shooting of the tires. On another occasion, he shot through the ceiling of his apartment into the apartment of a neighbor he was having a dispute over noise with. He claimed this was a "gun cleaning" accident as his hands with slippery from doing dishes.

Having the Texas CCW enabled him to buy a gun in VA (not sure if any of this is true).

The author said this is why we need mental health records in the background checks and no reciprocity.

It sounds to me like he should have got charged with a felony for shooting out the tires, and that would have prevented him from getting a CCW or purchasing a gun through legal means.

I am very pro gun, but I wonder why people are not charged with crimes some times.
I don't know about Virginia reciprocity but here is the Virginia requirement for purchase of firearms. In my state, even possession of a valid CCW issued by my state does not eliminate the background check requirement, but I realize each state is different.

http://www.vsp.state.va.us/Firearms_VFTP.shtm

If he was never prosecuted for his crimes I don't see how a background check would preclude him from purchase of a shotgun. Letting people skate on shooting out tires and such is definitely a basic problem.

As far as mental health records, I'm not sure where you draw the line that prevents a person from buying a gun. This case does open up a whole lot of questions, including background checks for clearance of military contractors.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:05   #15
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When will people learn that the Govt will not protect you from much. Little security was provided at that facility and the wacko got in.....no armed Officers anywhere in sight. The Judge said it best this morning!

http://foxnewsinsider.com/2013/09/17...ave-been-armed
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:08   #16
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Did anyone notice that the media reported the shooter used an AR-15---- until it wasn't an AR-15?

Navy Yard shooting: AR-15, back in the news -- briefly

So, the shooter had no AR or any other "assault rifle", only a shotgun and two handguns. Yet, we have Feinstein and all the usual suspects trotting out the gun control mantra as they dance over the dead bodies. Scumbags!

Before long our illustrious Presidente will go on air claiming the nutcase schizo murderer is actually a victim of intolerance and racial profiling, and that Obamacare would have prevented his implosion if only the House Republicans would stop their obstruction.
It would really be nice if all the news organizations would get Feinstein in front of their cameras and confront her on the opportunistic use of the early, erroneous information to continue her bashing a particular firearm. Of course that will never happen.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:11   #17
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Actually, the felon thing is part of the punishment for past actions, not relating to possible future actions. It's just one of the repercussions of you decide to break the law.

It does, in some cases, have the added benefit of being a deterrent for possible future actions, but really if a felon wants a gun to commit future bad acts, they'll get them. There will be an extra charge, but that's also after the fact.
Okay.......even if it's "punishment for past actions" it still controls future actions, such as LEGALLY purchasing/owning/possessing a firearm so?

This is what I was responding to:

Quote:
Originally Posted by fnfalman View Post
Our society's laws are not meant to keep people at bay for their possible futuristic actions.
The fact is ALL laws are designed to control human behavior/interaction within a society by either preventing certain actions or mandating them. Since everything is "in the future" until we do or don't do it, I'd reckon the very idea of having laws is to control future actions.
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:21   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
If he was never prosecuted for his crimes I don't see how a background check would preclude him from purchase of a shotgun. Letting people skate on shooting out tires and such is definitely a basic problem.

As far as mental health records, I'm not sure where you draw the line that prevents a person from buying a gun. This case does open up a whole lot of questions, including background checks for clearance of military contractors.
I have very mixed feeling about the mental health records being involved in background checks. I think that gives the government a huge chance to abuse the system denying people arms. I think 99% it would be a bad idea. If you have ever talked to a counselor about whatever, what is to keep them from saying that makes you ineligible.

I agree, the issue here is that he was not prosecuted for a serious crime, of at least "felony stupid"
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:03   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by czsmithGT View Post
...
As far as mental health records, I'm not sure where you draw the line that prevents a person from buying a gun. This case does open up a whole lot of questions, including background checks for clearance of military contractors.
I'd not be surprised to see further discussions about how being treated for a range of mental health problems ought to figure into important issues such as receiving/maintaining security clearances and the ability to own/possess firearms.

http://news.yahoo.com/gunman-navy-ya...142217356.html
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:10   #20
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FBI news conference just said he only entered the building with a shotgun. That will prove interesting.

WP
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:13   #21
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He could have got them illegally, absolutely. I think however, that once you have been convicted of criminal behavior, you should forfeit the legal right to some things.
So that way those who have messed up in their past and have done their time, are no longer allowed to defend themselves and their loved ones? Yet those who still remain criminals after doing their sentenced time will still break the law and acquire guns illegally anyways?.... Makes sense......

If you want to ask the rhetorical question of "oh but what about blah blah who murdered blah blah and got out...." .... He shouldn't have got out in the first place, so that's a discussion to an entirely different topic.
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:16   #22
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FBI news conference just said he only entered the building with a shotgun. That will prove interesting.

WP
I reckon' Joe Biden and his PR folks are regretting his idiotic "Buy a shotgun" gaffe.

And now they come for the shotguns with black plastic stocks............
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:32   #23
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I am still amazed that in the last two military base shootings, the shooter had to be neutralized by civilians. I still remember when Clinton did this in 1993, I was still in the Reserves. Will we ever learn?

WP
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:39   #24
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Has anyone noticed that most of these mass murderers pick targets in places where guns are not allowed?
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Old 09-17-2013, 12:39   #25
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Just a shotgun. Handguns taken during shooting. No AR 15.

http://www.wusa9.com/news/local/stor...storyid=275063
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