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Old 09-08-2013, 21:19   #1
PhoenixTacSolutions
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Emergency Reload - To look or not to look at the handgun while reloading...

Thanks in advance for watching!

This method works for me...find out what works for you and evolve.

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Old 09-09-2013, 05:59   #2
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I like the texting-driving-accident analogy. I'm going to "steal" that when I do my dept instruction in a few weeks.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:38   #3
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Thanks for watching...

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Originally Posted by Steve in PA View Post
I like the texting-driving-accident analogy. I'm going to "steal" that when I do my dept instruction in a few weeks.
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Old 09-09-2013, 11:42   #4
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on the other hand, if you don't look wile reloading and you fumble, you'll be looking at the guy who is killing you.
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Old 09-09-2013, 12:10   #5
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It comes down to what works for you. Thanks for watching.

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on the other hand, if you don't look wile reloading and you fumble, you'll be looking at the guy who is killing you.
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Old 09-09-2013, 13:09   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ca survivor View Post
on the other hand, if you don't look wile reloading and you fumble, you'll be looking at the guy who is killing you.
And if you look, you can still be killed by the guy trying to kill you. What happens in dim/dark light when you can't see your handgun??

Like the OP said, use what works for you.
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Old 09-09-2013, 19:50   #7
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If you've shot the gun to slidelock and you still haven't solved the problem, you likely have some issues that neither a "look/no look" reload is going to fix.

Just sayin ......
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Old 09-10-2013, 06:14   #8
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practice, practice, practice...and then practice some more.
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Old 09-10-2013, 11:52   #9
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Anytime my pistol doesn't fire when I press the trigger I immediately perform tap, rack, recover. It's quicker than pausing to look at my pistol to observe/orient/decide/act to determine what caused the stoppage and to make a decision as to what corrective action I'm going to perform.

Tap, rack, recover can be quickly performed and it is one immediate action that solves MANY problems I might have.

If tap, rack, recover fails to get the pistol running then, when the situation permits, I'll automatically progress to my next immediate action which is to perform a Combat [Emergency] Reload. If, during the Combat Reload, I can't insert the magazine into the pistol, then I place the fresh magazine between my ring and pinky finger, lock open the slide, rip the installed magazine from the pistol, rack the slide three times, then finish the Combat Reload.

During tap, rack I may detect that the slide did not retract very far. It could be due to slide lock from an empty magazine, an in-line stovepipe or a doublefeed. It doesn't matter - I attempt to fire again after racking the slide. (Pausing to diagnose increases the time it will take for me to fix the problem. In addition lighting conditions may make it difficult to quickly see and diagnose.) Tap, rack take less than a second to perform and doesn't divert my attention from the attacker to the pistol. If tap, rack fails to get the pistol running then my mind is free to immediately decide what I might have to do next to keep from being shot, stabbed, beaten, etc., BEFORE I attempt a Combat Reload.

LOOKING at the pistol sucks you into dealing with the pistol problem instead of reacting to the attacker (the cellphone texting example provided in the video also applies here).

LOOKING at the pistol to observe and diagnose a problem takes longer to perform than a series of progressive non-diagnostic immediate actions:
  1. If the gun doesn't fire then perform tap, rack, recover.
  2. If tap, rack, recover fails to get the gun running then, when situation permits, perform a Combat Reload.
  3. If you cannot insert them magazine during the Combat Reload then perform the actions to clear a doublefeed and complete the Combat Reload.
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Old 09-10-2013, 21:25   #10
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There are reports of assailants taking double digit number of handgun rounds and still continuing to fight. Handguns are underpowered tools regardless of caliber. Training to effectively execute an emergency reload is very important...especially for those not blessed to live in high capacity magazine states.

Thanks for watching and commenting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by #141magfan View Post
If you've shot the gun to slidelock and you still haven't solved the problem, you likely have some issues that neither a "look/no look" reload is going to fix.

Just sayin ......
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Old 09-10-2013, 21:26   #11
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Exactly! Thanks for your comment.

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Originally Posted by A'boy View Post
practice, practice, practice...and then practice some more.
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Old 09-10-2013, 21:33   #12
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People are exaggerating the extent of "looking". We're not in an environment where things are moving at 70mph, nor are we taking a second and a half to put a magazine in, nor are we making gross head movements.

The look is a flick of the eyes to reduce fumbles. It's a shift of a few degrees, since the gun is just below our nose. The value it returns---when we're in a fight for our lives and have already run thru a dozen or more rounds without fixing the problem---is important.

Lets run this with sims and light t-shirts and see what actually works (I have, and the guys who say they're doing it by feel actually aren't, by 20:1.)
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Old 09-10-2013, 21:51   #13
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Thanks for your comment!

Please elaborate on the bold portion of your post...

Are you referring to a type 3 malfunction? Did you mean that if you can not rip the magazine out of the handgun?

Sorry if I am misunderstanding you!

Thanks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Derbel McDillet View Post
Anytime my pistol doesn't fire when I press the trigger I immediately perform tap, rack, recover. It's quicker than pausing to look at my pistol to observe/orient/decide/act to determine what caused the stoppage and to make a decision as to what corrective action I'm going to perform.

Tap, rack, recover can be quickly performed and it is one immediate action that solves MANY problems I might have.

If tap, rack, recover fails to get the pistol running then, when the situation permits, I'll automatically progress to my next immediate action which is to perform a Combat [Emergency] Reload. If, during the Combat Reload, I can't insert the magazine into the pistol, then I place the fresh magazine between my ring and pinky finger, lock open the slide, rip the installed magazine from the pistol, rack the slide three times, then finish the Combat Reload.

During tap, rack I may detect that the slide did not retract very far. It could be due to slide lock from an empty magazine, an in-line stovepipe or a doublefeed. It doesn't matter - I attempt to fire again after racking the slide. (Pausing to diagnose increases the time it will take for me to fix the problem. In addition lighting conditions may make it difficult to quickly see and diagnose.) Tap, rack take less than a second to perform and doesn't divert my attention from the attacker to the pistol. If tap, rack fails to get the pistol running then my mind is free to immediately decide what I might have to do next to keep from being shot, stabbed, beaten, etc., BEFORE I attempt a Combat Reload.

LOOKING at the pistol sucks you into dealing with the pistol problem instead of reacting to the attacker (the cellphone texting example provided in the video also applies here).

LOOKING at the pistol to observe and diagnose a problem takes longer to perform than a series of progressive non-diagnostic immediate actions:
  1. If the gun doesn't fire then perform tap, rack, recover.
  2. If tap, rack, recover fails to get the gun running then, when situation permits, perform a Combat Reload.
  3. If you cannot insert them magazine during the Combat Reload then perform the actions to clear a doublefeed and complete the Combat Reload.
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Old 09-10-2013, 21:57   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
... the gun is just below our nose.
This sums it up nicely.

We never stop looking towards the threat, but we can also see what we need to see during the reload.
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Old 09-10-2013, 22:06   #15
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I always keep the gun at eye level to see both the threat and the gun during a reload. Last time I was envolved in a shooting I was counting my shots and anticipating the reload. I'd rather do a mag change with one still in the chamber if possible.
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Old 09-11-2013, 10:38   #16
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Quote:
Please elaborate on the bold portion of your post...

Are you referring to a type 3 malfunction? Did you mean that if you can not rip the magazine out of the handgun?

Quote:
If, during the Combat Reload, I can't insert the magazine into the pistol, then I place the fresh magazine between my ring and pinky finger, lock open the slide, rip the installed magazine from the pistol, rack the slide three times, then finish the Combat Reload.
When performing a Combat Reload I first acquire the fresh magazine in my support hand. Once I have the fresh magazine indexed in my support hand, ready to insert, and I'm bringing it up to the pistol I press the magazine release pushbutton to jettison the "empty" magazine from the pistol. If I can't insert the fresh magazine into the magazine well because the "empty" magazine did not jettison, then I simply perform the immediate action to clear a doublefeed and then finish the Combat Reload.

I don't get caught up with classifying stoppages as a "Type I, II or III malfunction" because this adds unnecessary complexity. I don't care what "type" it is. I just perform a progressive series of immediate actions to get the pistol running as quickly as possible. I can do it in complete darkness or while on the move.

If Tap, Rack, Recover fails to get the pistol running then my next step is to perform a Combat Reload. The reason is because I'm more likely to have an empty magazine than to have experienced a doublefeed stoppage. Attempting to perform a Combat Reload first will get the pistol up and running quicker than performing all the steps to clear a doublefeed, if the reason for the stoppage is simply an empty magazine. If the problem is a doublefeed then very little time is wasted as the fresh magazine is simply transferred from the support hand to between the ring and pinky fingers of the firing hand, freeing the support hand to rip the "empty" magazine from the pistol and to work the slide.

Last edited by Derbel McDillet; 09-11-2013 at 10:43..
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Old 09-15-2013, 10:40   #17
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I really like the moustache.

You method is how I was taught and trained by IDF commandos and how I currently train others.

Jam 1- Dud or no round in chamber, trigger goes "click" -tap rack.
Jam 2- double feed or stove pipe, trigger is "mushy" remove mag, rack slide 2-3 times, reinsert mag, rack slide to chamber a fresh round.
Jam 3- Out of ammo, slide lock, emergency reload.

Do not count rounds fired; do not perform tactical reloads. Fire until threat is down or gun stops working. Perform whichever Jam manipulation as needed.
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Old 09-15-2013, 13:09   #18
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I don't ever remember looking at my M16, carbine, or M14 when I reloaded. That said I do try to get a flash look when I reload. I like the technique taught by Tom Givens when I took his instructor development class. Tom won't even allow you look at your magazines when you reload them. Having had a friend die because he was looking down at his revolver to reload will give you an intense emotional experience and you will look for a way to stay alive should that situation occur again. I see both techniques as being the right way depending on the situation.
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Old 09-16-2013, 17:11   #19
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Thanks for your comment!!!

My mustache thanks you as well


Quote:
Originally Posted by Jake Starr View Post
I really like the moustache.

You method is how I was taught and trained by IDF commandos and how I currently train others.

Jam 1- Dud or no round in chamber, trigger goes "click" -tap rack.
Jam 2- double feed or stove pipe, trigger is "mushy" remove mag, rack slide 2-3 times, reinsert mag, rack slide to chamber a fresh round.
Jam 3- Out of ammo, slide lock, emergency reload.

Do not count rounds fired; do not perform tactical reloads. Fire until threat is down or gun stops working. Perform whichever Jam manipulation as needed.
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Old 09-16-2013, 17:14   #20
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Interesting...

Thanks for your comment!

Quote:
Originally Posted by threefeathers View Post
I don't ever remember looking at my M16, carbine, or M14 when I reloaded. That said I do try to get a flash look when I reload. I like the technique taught by Tom Givens when I took his instructor development class. Tom won't even allow you look at your magazines when you reload them. Having had a friend die because he was looking down at his revolver to reload will give you an intense emotional experience and you will look for a way to stay alive should that situation occur again. I see both techniques as being the right way depending on the situation.
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Old 09-17-2013, 08:47   #21
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Thanks for your comment...it comes down to what works for you.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam Spade View Post
People are exaggerating the extent of "looking". We're not in an environment where things are moving at 70mph, nor are we taking a second and a half to put a magazine in, nor are we making gross head movements.

The look is a flick of the eyes to reduce fumbles. It's a shift of a few degrees, since the gun is just below our nose. The value it returns---when we're in a fight for our lives and have already run thru a dozen or more rounds without fixing the problem---is important.

Lets run this with sims and light t-shirts and see what actually works (I have, and the guys who say they're doing it by feel actually aren't, by 20:1.)
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Old 09-17-2013, 09:51   #22
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I agree that you should use whatever method works for you and practice continuously.

I bring the gun up to my line of sight and then change the magazine. That way, I can see the threat and gun.

On a side note, I believe when training, you should train for all contingencies. During a pistol class I recently took, we were practicing shooting while moving backwards. When I went to grab a new magazine, it got tangled in my cover garment and I dropped it.

What would you do then?

I always carry two spare magazines, but had never had this happen before even though I practice reloading. So, I had never trained for it. However, I continued to move backwards, grabbed my second magazine, reloaded and continued the string of fire. Looking back, I suppose I could have also reloaded, crouched down while continuing to fire to retrieve the dropped magazine.

Afterwards, the instructor told me that was the first time he's seen someone do that. Everyone else that has ever fumbled a mag change always stopped to pick it up, which meant bending over and taking their eyes off the threat for an even longer period (which another shooter did later that day.)
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Last edited by eaglefrq; 09-17-2013 at 09:53..
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Old 09-17-2013, 11:19   #23
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A lot is learned during training. For one, you can objectively assess your gear as well as work on existing problem areas or problem areas that arise during the stress (however small) of training.

After this experience, I am sure you are re-assessing your mag draw (did you index properly etc), your outer garment or both. All to say, it's great that it happened while training and not during the real thing.

You did the correct thing. Movement is KEY and one should never stop to pick up a magazine especially during such a critical time. Disregard the magazine and MOVE to cover if possible while reloading.

Another good lesson learned here is the need for 2 spare magazines as Murphy's Law can kick in.

Practice 'til you can't get it wrong.

Good work!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
I agree that you should use whatever method works for you and practice continuously.

I bring the gun up to my line of sight and then change the magazine. That way, I can see the threat and gun.

On a side note, I believe when training, you should train for all contingencies. During a pistol class I recently took, we were practicing shooting while moving backwards. When I went to grab a new magazine, it got tangled in my cover garment and I dropped it.

What would you do then?

I always carry two spare magazines, but had never had this happen before even though I practice reloading. So, I had never trained for it. However, I continued to move backwards, grabbed my second magazine, reloaded and continued the string of fire. Looking back, I suppose I could have also reloaded, crouched down while continuing to fire to retrieve the dropped magazine.

Afterwards, the instructor told me that was the first time he's seen someone do that. Everyone else that has ever fumbled a mag change always stopped to pick it up, which meant bending over and taking their eyes off the threat for an even longer period (which another shooter did later that day.)
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Old 09-17-2013, 21:09   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PhoenixTacSolutions View Post
A lot is learned during training. For one, you can objectively assess your gear as well as work on existing problem areas or problem areas that arise during the stress (however small) of training.

After this experience, I am sure you are re-assessing your mag draw (did you index properly etc), your outer garment or both. All to say, it's great that it happened while training and not during the real thing.

You did the correct thing. Movement is KEY and one should never stop to pick up a magazine especially during such a critical time. Disregard the magazine and MOVE to cover if possible while reloading.

Another good lesson learned here is the need for 2 spare magazines as Murphy's Law can kick in.

Practice 'til you can't get it wrong.

Good work!
Yes, I have done an assessment and there were several factors involved.

1. I was wearing a new style of magazine holder that put the magazines closer to my body. Normally I wear a belt clip style holder that keeps the magazines slightly away from my belt.

2. I had recently gotten some full size magazines and I was carrying them that day instead of the normal compact magazines.

3. The shirt I was wearing was older and baggier than I normally wear, so the extra material contributed to the miscue.

I made the fatal assumption that the minor changes in gear, clothing and equipment wouldn't make a difference.
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Last edited by eaglefrq; 09-17-2013 at 21:11..
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Old 09-19-2013, 08:37   #25
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Perfect!

Quote:
Originally Posted by eaglefrq View Post
Yes, I have done an assessment and there were several factors involved.

1. I was wearing a new style of magazine holder that put the magazines closer to my body. Normally I wear a belt clip style holder that keeps the magazines slightly away from my belt.

2. I had recently gotten some full size magazines and I was carrying them that day instead of the normal compact magazines.

3. The shirt I was wearing was older and baggier than I normally wear, so the extra material contributed to the miscue.

I made the fatal assumption that the minor changes in gear, clothing and equipment wouldn't make a difference.
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