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Old 09-06-2013, 11:22   #1
phil evans
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go to war without congress?

is B H Obama arrogant to the point of going to war with Syria without Congress approval?

it's scary - when you realize all the laws he as delayed in enacting
or his haughty use of executive orders to further his campaign against the middle class of America
and exempting classes of his favored ones.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:27   #2
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Man GT...make up your minds. One thread complains about about him acting without the prior approval of Congress and the next complains about him going to Congress for the decision.

You can't complain about both of the scenarios available to him, it sounds childish.

Last edited by ray9898; 09-06-2013 at 11:40..
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:30   #3
.264 magnum
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I'll leave technical analysis to the lawyers, but I read the War Powers Act one time. IMO there no question that Obama DOES NOT need congressional approval to hammer Syria.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:34   #4
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IMO there no question that Obama DOES NOT need congressional approval to hammer Syria.
Correct.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:36   #5
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I'll leave technical analysis to the lawyers, but I read the War Powers Act one time. IMO there no question that Obama DOES NOT need congressional approval to hammer Syria.

Correct. If he wishes to stay and make war, he would need approval.


For a limited duration military strike, he can simply do it.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:45   #6
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Man GT...make up your minds. One thread is about him acting without Congress and the next is about him going to Congress.
If in fact Congress does authorize the strike, I don't think too many people will have a problem with it the way you might think. Yes, they (including myself) will still think it's a bad decision but at least the President will have followed the process. It would then be Congress and the President who would be to blame for the mess it would create, not just Obama alone.

But that's not going to happen. Congress will vote no and it will be all on Obama.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:46   #7
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Man GT...make up your minds. One thread complains about about him acting without the prior approval of Congress and the next complains about him going to Congress for the decision.

You can't complain about both of the scenarios available to him, it sounds childish.


Just wanted to point out that GT is made up of many people with differing views and is rarely in accord on anything. Expressing those views is anything but childish, even if they are wrong. It is in fact a cornerstone of freedom, again even if the views are wrong. Wanting everyone to think the same thing is very dangerous.



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Old 09-06-2013, 11:47   #8
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Obama just needs NOT to declare war. Just fire the missiles and make no declaration.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:51   #9
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Obama has screwed this over since day one. He's already given Syria plenty of time to hide/relocate key targets. If he strikes Syria, it may trigger WW3 or at the very least terror attacks against the U.S. If he doesn't, Obama will be seen as a weak president and could embolden some of our enemies to attempt at starting skirmishes around the world.

Of course Obama's biggest mistake was to side with the rebels knowing well that they were 100% backed by Al Qaeda. Is our current administration so stupid that they actually think that America is willing to side with the very groups that we have been at war with for the past decade!
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:51   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HiddenEyes View Post
Just wanted to point out that GT is made up of many people with differing views and is rarely in accord on anything. Expressing those views is anything but childish, even if they are wrong. It is in fact a cornerstone of freedom, again even if the views are wrong. Wanting everyone to think the same thing is very dangerous.
Ehhh....usually it is a dog pile and you know it. This time instead of recognizing he made the responsible choice and let it play out some had to take the illogical stance simply so they could voice a complaint.

Politics is a game for many, they flip sides and views depending on what their end goal is to toe the party line.

Last edited by ray9898; 09-06-2013 at 11:51..
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:51   #11
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Don't flame me. I have not read the war powers act.
It is my limited understanding the POTUS can initiate military action on his own, without congress, only if the US is under direct imminent threat (like 9/11 or what should have happened in Benghazi).
Am I wrong?
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:52   #12
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Obama does NOT WANT congressional approval. That's his out. Congress wouldn't let me. Blame the republicans is his motto. No matter that the Dems are opposed as well.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:54   #13
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Obama does NOT WANT congressional approval. That's his out. Congress wouldn't let me. Blame the republicans is his motto. No matter that the Dems are opposed as well.
The Republicans are always his scapegoat.
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Old 09-06-2013, 11:56   #14
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Ehhh....usually it is a dog pile and you know it. This time instead of recognizing he made the responsible choice and let it play out some had to take the illogical stance simply so they could voice a complaint.

Politics is a game for many, they flip sides and views depending on what their end goal is to toe the party line.


The problem, is that he hasn't chosen the responsible choice.


The responsible choice, is to sit it out.

Syrian rebels using chemical weapons against their own gov't is not a reason to side with the rebels.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:01   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NIB View Post
Obama has screwed this over since day one. He's already given Syria plenty of time to hide/relocate key targets. If he strikes Syria, it may trigger WW3 or at the very least terror attacks against the U.S. If he doesn't, Obama will be seen as a weak president and could embolden some of our enemies to attempt at starting skirmishes around the world.

Of course Obama's biggest mistake was to side with the rebels knowing well that they were 100% backed by Al Qaeda. Is our current administration so stupid that they actually think that America is willing to side with the very groups that we have been at war with for the past decade!
OK take it easy.
1. The chances of us starting WWIII derivative to airstrikes on Syria broach infinity. It's simply not going to happen.

2. The rebels ARE NOT 100% al-qaeda backed. That's nonsense and refuted by every open intelligence source out there.

3. I hate Obama as well. That said he is the president and it is his job to handle conundrums like this not hide from them with platitudes and bogus claims.

4. The nightmare scenario is Syria craps out into anarchy, famine and failure and then Iran steps into fill the void. The last thing the world needs is Iran forming a semi-circle around Israel.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:06   #16
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Ehhh....usually it is a dog pile and you know it. This time instead of recognizing he made the responsible choice and let it play out some had to take the illogical stance simply so they could voice a complaint.

Politics is a game for many, they flip sides and views depending on what their end goal is to toe the party line.

Yes on the dog pile thing, but that is half the fun anyway.

Yes on the politics being a game to most, someday it may get real for them.

You are arguing for a point of view though, by belittling an opposing view, instead of defending your own position that Obama did something responsible.


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Old 09-06-2013, 12:09   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bring_it! View Post
Don't flame me. I have not read the war powers act.
It is my limited understanding the POTUS can initiate military action on his own, without congress, only if the US is under direct imminent threat (like 9/11 or what should have happened in Benghazi).
Am I wrong?
I'd suggest reading the WPA I, WPA II and then War Powers Resolution. It's not simple and frankly the common thesis between the three is gray. My guess is that Obama can claim that Syria having and using chemical weapons does pose a real and imminent enough threat to the US such that he can legally strike.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:12   #18
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
The problem, is that he hasn't chosen the responsible choice.


The responsible choice, is to sit it out.

It has been a topic addressed by both parties as the events led up to this point. Some of the top Republicans such as McCain for example were very vocal in the past calling for intervention though he is playing hard ball last minute. Boehner has been on record saying he fully supports intervention and recently voted to approve an act proposed by the President. It was a topic that was going to be addressed one way or the other.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:16   #19
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It has been a topic addressed by both parties as the events led up to this point. Some of the top Republicans such as McCain for example were very vocal in the past calling for intervention though he is playing hard ball last minute. Boehner has been on record saying he fully supports intervention and recently voted to approve an act proposed by the President. It was a topic that was going to be addressed one way or the other.

I don't think McCain, the turncoat, is really a "top republican" he's a liberal, and EVERYONE knows it.



But, regardless, choosing to intervene, because Syrian rebels are gassing civilians, and gov't troops, without being asked to help by the Syrian gov't is not the "responsible choice"



So the premise of your argument was flawed, from the very start.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:19   #20
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Quote:
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You are arguing for a point of view though, by belittling an opposing view, instead of defending your own position that Obama did something responsible.
I am not really 'defending' either view. This is not simply an Obama issue, this is a bi-partisan issue that has been brewing for some time with each party being split on the course of action.

My point is Obama could have acted on his own which would simply pushed some to insanity for ignoring Congress. Instead he asked for that input from Congress which is obviously the wiser choice, common sense tells you that.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:21   #21
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Originally Posted by AK_Stick View Post
But, regardless, choosing to intervene, because Syrian rebels are gassing civilians, and gov't troops, without being asked to help by the Syrian gov't is not the "responsible choice"



So the premise of your argument was flawed, from the very start.

That is certainly up for dispute, plenty of intelligence that the opposite occurred.

Last edited by ray9898; 09-06-2013 at 12:22..
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:35   #22
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I am not really 'defending' either view. This is not simply an Obama issue, this is a bi-partisan issue that has been brewing for some time with each party being split on the course of action.

My point is Obama could have acted on his own which would simply pushed some to insanity for ignoring Congress. Instead he asked for that input from Congress which is obviously the wiser choice, common sense tells you that.


I do think that Congress should be part of any decision regarding our country going to war. I think in the past we've done to much half-***ed warfighting because we were not willing to commit to the war and winning the war.

Having said that, you are giving Obama too much credit. I'd like to think you're right, I really would, but from before he took office Obama has never stood up and done the right thing. His entire history is him advancing his own failed agenda regardless of the situation. I don't see a few times where his actions parallel the right thing being the same as doing the right thing.

It would be like a felon putting his hands behind his back after an armed robbery when I tell him to turn around and put his hands behind his back. Sure it's the right thing to do, but his motivation is the gun in my hands, not a desire to do the right thing. Same situation with Obama, his motivation is ulterior, not stemming from any good motives on his part.



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Old 09-06-2013, 12:43   #23
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Everyone Note: for the first time I think I agree with Sarah Palin , let allah sort it out. We don't need to fight everyone's battles for them. In the UN goes in then we should do our share, no more.

We need to heal our military and our budget.
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:51   #24
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The POTUS does not need congressional approval to bomb a country -

But he goes and asks for it anyway - then he should follow the congressional decision.

If congress says NO - in theory he should not be able to do it anyway - congress could cut off funding for the attack.

I doubt congress would do that.

I have never though that anyone was doing a dog pile on Obama - but have - for a long time considered Obama to be a pile of dog $#!+
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Old 09-06-2013, 12:52   #25
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The only problem with taking action without Congressional approval is that HE will be responsible for anything that goes wrong . That's a position that he goes to great lengths to avoid . Although , I'm sure he will have a designated flunkie to take the heat for any mistakes . Probably already has his " blame Bush " speech loaded into the sacred teleprompter .
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