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Old 11-24-2013, 11:56   #61
intecooler
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I'm sending Andrew four more to work up to 1300 FPS. Might change things!
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:12   #62
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I'm sending Andrew four more to work up to 1300 FPS. Might change things!
Nice. Next, we have to contact Hornady.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:34   #63
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Generally speaking, a 155 gr and 175 gr bullet pushed by the same powder charge will have the same energy but lighter (shorter) bullets allow more room in the case and have a shorter bearing surface and are therefore able to take a higher powder charge so a lighter bullet is often loaded to higher energy levels, producing more felt recoil.

I've said it over and over: full power 10mm isn't really necessary for defense against humans. The FBI didn't reduce the power because their agents are pansies; it is because the higher power loads produce excessive recoil, which means less shots on target in a given period of time. Now you can thump your chest about how macho you are, but it's simply a matter of physics. No matter how manly you are, *you* can shoot lighter recoiling ammunition faster than *you* can shoot heavily recoiling ammunition.

I love the 10mm and I like full power 10mm ammo but I think the real strength of 10mm is its versatility. The full power stuff is better suited to hunting and woods defense where a flat trajectory and/or deep penetration is required.

My EDC gun is a G23 loaded with 180 gr Gold Dot. When I carry the 10mm it is usually loaded with 165 gr Gold Dot at about 1,300 fps, which is faster than .40 S&W but not exactly nuclear. The 175 gr Critical Duty would be a very good choice for defense against humans.

I'd also like to point out that Hydrashok is a very old and obsolete design that often has trouble with heavy clothing and fails to expand.
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Old 11-24-2013, 12:57   #64
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I wish we could do a pull down of the 155 grain Hornady XTP in 10mm. Then we could make some comparisons. It looks like Hornady continues to load the 155 grain XTP in .40, but has suspended it in 10mm.

I like the 165 or 170 grain bullet at 1300 fps for personal defense (or duty) situations. I just would like to see somebody load it at that level. It probably would be just about perfect.
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Old 11-24-2013, 13:06   #65
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I wish we could do a pull down of the 155 grain Hornady XTP in 10mm. Then we could make some comparisons. It looks like Hornady continues to load the 155 grain XTP in .40, but has suspended it in 10mm.

I like the 165 or 170 grain bullet at 1300 fps for personal defense (or duty) situations. I just would like to see somebody load it at that level. It probably would be just about perfect.
Yeah, there are companies loading "FBI lite" type loads and there are companies that load nookular 10mm manbearpig loads but not too many that make just plain regular middle of the road real 10mm ammo. Underwood's Delta Elite loads probably come closest but it looks like they aren't offering them for sale anymore. Maybe I missed it but I can't find them on the UW website.
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Old 11-24-2013, 13:19   #66
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Yeah, there are companies loading "FBI lite" type loads and there are companies that load nookular 10mm manbearpig loads but not too many that make just plain regular middle of the road real 10mm ammo. Underwood's Delta Elite loads probably come closest but it looks like they aren't offering them for sale anymore. Maybe I missed it but I can't find them on the UW website.
I have been checking for the last six months and haven't found them. I guess the 1300 fps 180 grain stuff is a big seller for him. Though I think if Kevin made a substantial supply of the Delta Elite load he would see how well it would sell. Me thinks there are plenty of other 10mm shooters who think like we do.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:45   #67
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I asked Kevin to load the delta-elite 180gr bonded gold dot before he does a run of the nuclear 180gr gold dot load as the delta-elite crowd will need that load, and it is a better load for self defense in any 10mm gun than the faster load.
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Old 11-25-2013, 12:56   #68
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Winchester says their 175gr. STHP gets 1290 fps, which is right were I'd want a 10mm for self defense. the problem is we don't know what rifle barrel they used to get that number.
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Old 11-25-2013, 22:18   #69
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Winchester says their 175gr. STHP gets 1290 fps, which is right were I'd want a 10mm for self defense. the problem is we don't know what rifle barrel they used to get that number.
that's funny, according to ballistics by the inch it would be about an 8.5" barrel to hit the boxflap 1290fps rating. I'm ok with where the silvertip is at, they move pretty good I just wish they were 200gr at 1150.
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Old 11-26-2013, 00:36   #70
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cowboywannabe View Post
Winchester says their 175gr. STHP gets 1290 fps, which is right were I'd want a 10mm for self defense. the problem is we don't know what rifle barrel they used to get that number.
Certainly not from a 4.6" barrel. They chrony about 1150 through my G20. That is Double Tap-like exaggeration of box flap velocities.

Even still, that is my everyday carry round.
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Old 11-26-2013, 09:53   #71
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Despite their wildly inaccurate claims, I agree, the STs are pretty decent.
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Old 11-26-2013, 16:59   #72
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I have been checking for the last six months and haven't found them. I guess the 1300 fps 180 grain stuff is a big seller for him. Though I think if Kevin made a substantial supply of the Delta Elite load he would see how well it would sell. Me thinks there are plenty of other 10mm shooters who think like we do.
I bought a good amount of the DE load and have 350 rds on hand. That is what I load my glock 20 with. Still a full power load with lower recoil.

Last edited by sgtbones; 11-26-2013 at 17:02..
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Old 11-27-2013, 12:42   #73
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I thought about this further, I think the Critical Duty 10mm would make a good carry round for my Glock 29 especially in winter. The polymer tip should eliminate the ability heavy clothing to clog the hollow point preventing expansion.

The Hornady 155 XTP with a PF of 198 is pushing my limit for a quick* (about 1/3 second) 2nd shot out of the 29.
* My 2nd shot average time is based on both the 1st and 2nd shot hitting a 6'' circle placed at 6 - 7 yards; hitting out of the 6'' circle or simply inside a silhouette doesn't meet my criteria.

Most comparable alternative:
My Glock 30 (45 acp) is very controllable with either of these loads:
Federal Hydra-Shok 230 gr. @ 807 fps = PF 186
Hornady 185 gr. XTP @ 970 fps = PF 179

The Critical Duty 10mm produced a comparatively controllable PF of 188

Not saying the Critical Duty is a "better" load for SD than either of those 45 acp loads, but the recoil is comparable and capacity is increased; my flush fitting Glock 30 magazines hold 8 rounds versus 10 rounds in the model 29 magazines.
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Old 12-08-2013, 23:26   #74
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I have my Glock 20SF loaded with 16 rounds of the 175 grain Hornady Critical Duty, but that is because I can't find any 10mm Winchester Silvertip ammo to buy.
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