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Old 09-11-2013, 18:30   #26
4949shooter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by intecooler View Post
Thanks IC.
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Old 09-12-2013, 14:17   #27
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thanks for testing, it will be cool to see what Andrew gets in the gel. I totally agree that full house loading of 10mm is counterproductive to self defense. This is why my carry gun is a Glock 26 with 147gr HST, it penetrates 14 - 14.5" and expands to about .55-.6 through denim.
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:23   #28
Andrew Wiggin
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Good choice. My EDC is a G23 loaded with 180 gr Gold Dot. Did you see my 10mm 180 gr HST test?
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Old 09-12-2013, 18:55   #29
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Quote:
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Good choice. My EDC is a G23 loaded with 180 gr Gold Dot. Did you see my 10mm 180 gr HST test?
Yes I saw that, expansion and weight retention were outstanding :D but the two penetration numbers were so far apart. Expanding that much it is basically a 45acp 230gr HST +p which only goes about 13" and it takes a huge amount of velocity and weight to overcome expansion to that size and get much more penetration. i.e. looking at 240gr gold dots from a 44mag, etc. With the case capacity of the 10mm, a 200gr hollowpoint is prob the best eh?
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Old 09-12-2013, 22:35   #30
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I was surprised by the variation in penetration too. I'm no expert but if I were to speculate, I'd guess that one stayed "plugged" by the denim just a little bit longer. It's hard to say and it underscores the importance of proper, scientific testing with a statistically relevant sample size. One or two shots is interesting to us laymen but hardly conclusive.


"Best?" I dunno. What's "better," a Corvette or F-150. Like so many other things, it depends. I carry a 165 gr Gold Dot at 1,300 fps if my main concern is human beans but like I said earlier, the 10mm isn't my EDC, either. I carry a 200 gr XTP hand load at about 1,200 fps for camping where critters may be more of a concern.
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Old 09-19-2013, 19:57   #31
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gelt test any time soon?
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Old 09-19-2013, 23:25   #32
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I have a lot to work through but I think Intercooler might have a couple for testing.
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Old 09-20-2013, 06:38   #33
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I will be watching this one closely, I just bought the .40 Critical Duty for duty carry, I am going to try it out soon to see if I like what it brings to the table. As soon as my Blue Label Glock 20 comes in (I have been on the GT Distributing list since April) I will be carrying it on duty, and I am looking for the perfect duty carry load in 10mm.
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Old 09-20-2013, 12:50   #34
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I would recommend a Gold Dot or XTP in 165 or 180 gr and at moderate velocity, but I'm no geographist so don't take my word for it.
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Old 09-20-2013, 22:18   #35
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Spoke with the head ballistic engineer at Hornady (that is how he referred to himself, I don't have a way to confirm it) and he said it would be about 2 months until the specific FBI test information for the 10mm Critical Duty line is published. I'm posting this so people won't need to go bugging them (like I did, haha).

I also confirmed that critical duty and NOT critical defense uses sealed primers. I forgot to ask about TAP FPD (it is an XTP bullet load). Hornady was super easy compared to other companies to speak with.
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Old 09-21-2013, 22:59   #36
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Thank you.
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Old 09-22-2013, 06:14   #37
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I have a couple for you. Do you want me to send them down with the rest?
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Old 09-22-2013, 22:17   #38
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OK, but I'm still way behind.
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Old 10-02-2013, 02:19   #39
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Do you take bribes to test these sooner? Lol.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:10   #40
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Lol, I try to do the ones that folks are most interested in so I'm sure this one will go to the front of the line.
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Old 10-02-2013, 05:37   #41
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I'd really like to put real 10mm in my gun! still have hst 180 40s&w and my conversion barrel in as my bedside gun next to my edc g26. Its such a great bullet imo that I don't mind since the g20 platform is so flexible and I can easily switch to full power if I want.
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Old 10-02-2013, 09:18   #42
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The HST is a great bullet. Did you see my 10mm HST test? I think the versatility of the 10mm is its greatest strength. There are a lot of great defense loads for 10mm. Why not try Underwood 165 gr Gold Dot?

For the record, a rifle or shotgun make a far better home defense weapon than any pistol. Even 10mm
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Old 10-02-2013, 15:48   #43
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yeah I saw your 10mm HST handload test, that was pretty awesome. I don't like underwood for inside the home because they don't use flash suppressed powders. I'd use a shotgun but I only have a saiga 12 ( well and my great great grandfathers 1909 Remington A5) and I can't reload it since in California im required to have a magazine lock on it as a mag-fed shotgun. Looking to get an 870P here very soon. probably within the next two weeks. Although the saiga 12 with 10 rounds and no reload is probably just as much as an 870 with a side saddle could hold anyways LOL.
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Old 10-02-2013, 17:23   #44
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How would anyone ever find out that the lock was just laying on the nightstand next to the Saiga?
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Old 10-02-2013, 19:48   #45
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The risk would be getting charged with illegal assault weapon possession after defending my life from a home invasion. It is insane I know but DA's here would paint me as an illegal assault weapons horder that deserved to get robbed likely because I must be a gang member or worse because normal people don't own guns like this while holding up the "machine gun" shotgun in front of news cameras. Long sentence lol. I need to leave this mind numbingly absurd state for free america. Have a rwally good job though but not being treated like a damn criminal would feel amazing. Cant even sell a gun to my brother without a $35 background check and 10 day wait.
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Old 10-03-2013, 15:15   #46
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If the gun is legal, he can't charge you with it being illegal. If a shooting is justified, the weapon used is irrelevant. If it's not justified, you have bigger problems. I'd like to punch Mas Ayoob in the nose for perpetuating this belief that you're gonna go to jail because of the weapon you chose. He pointed to a couple of very extreme circumstances with complicating factors as "evidence" like the Harold Fish case or the one where the guy shot some bikers with an AC556 but no one has ever been able to show me a case where a regular guy was convicted in a clear cut case of defense solely because of the gun used, especially in their own home.

More importantly, you must survive the encounter to be convicted. Use the most effective LEGAL tool you have at your disposal and act in a legal manner. Create as much evidence as possible by calling 911 and putting them on speaker phone if you have the time and you might even think about putting up a couple cheap wireless IP cameras like the Foscam.
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Old 10-03-2013, 23:15   #47
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my response implied I would be removing the magazine lock thereby creating an "assault weapon" like you said. It would no longer be in legal configuration. I don't really have a problem using the gun for self defense with the magazine lock on, I just choose not too because it can't be reloaded.

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If the gun is legal, he can't charge you with it being illegal. If a shooting is justified, the weapon used is irrelevant. If it's not justified, you have bigger problems. I'd like to punch Mas Ayoob in the nose for perpetuating this belief that you're gonna go to jail because of the weapon you chose. He pointed to a couple of very extreme circumstances with complicating factors as "evidence" like the Harold Fish case or the one where the guy shot some bikers with an AC556 but no one has ever been able to show me a case where a regular guy was convicted in a clear cut case of defense solely because of the gun used, especially in their own home.

More importantly, you must survive the encounter to be convicted. Use the most effective LEGAL tool you have at your disposal and act in a legal manner. Create as much evidence as possible by calling 911 and putting them on speaker phone if you have the time and you might even think about putting up a couple cheap wireless IP cameras like the Foscam.
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Old 10-04-2013, 22:08   #48
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I'm sorry. I totally misunderstood. I was thinking of a cable lock threaded through the magazine well. Derp. I get you now. I feel like a dumbass.
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Old 10-11-2013, 16:08   #49
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Sorry, I'm late to the party--finally got a chance to get down to Cabela's today to grab some CD. Had to laugh to myself when I was buying that, along with some reloading stuff, because I went there fully-armed with my trusty LCP! I'll be switching over to G29 for the next firearm in my rotation.

Thank you for testing them out and reporting, intercooler
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Old 10-11-2013, 20:01   #50
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JMO

I don't care what LEO's and DA's think about ammo! I live in Oklahoma! And what comes off my reloading bench is near prefect.

I'm a XTP shooter. The bullets are cheap enough for me to practice with in my loads. And honestly I have never had one fail on me. Yeah they can shed some weight. But they always open up to spec or better. I have done a tad of gel testing and ran some of my loads over a crono. I load XTP's max or above published Hornady 7th and 3rd editions. I have not found away to make a bad round. Be it .380, .38, .357, 9mm, 10mm or .45. And I will soon be loading .357 Sig for my G31.

XTP's have always been accurate for me. Regardless of load. They have a great bearing surface. SD may be less than others and ogive can be a issue in some folks mind. But I like how they grab the lands and grooves and gas seal. I like shooting my rounds and seeing clean brass with no leakage. No black or bluing of the brass. Basically hard hitting ammo.

As for HD and SD use. In the public domain I'm all for running before I draw and fire. I will yell scream and run before I draw and fire. In HD use? I don't care. I have my shooting lanes, thus my points of engagement and angles/elevation of fire.

I'm so glad I don't have to count on over priced retail ammo. And worry about leo's and da's here.

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