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Old 09-05-2013, 19:56   #101
Bren
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Successful at what?

And what is SHTF?
Not to mention, having read the posts of the mall-ninja SHTF preppers on this forum, I wonder how any of them would know who is likely to fail.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:02   #102
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Not to mention, having read the posts of the mall-ninja SHTF preppers on this forum, I wonder how any of them would know who is likely to fail.
Yes.

My wife has a few family members who live in the woods for weeks. They really do live off the land. My money is on them. The largest weapon they carry is a pocket knife.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:13   #103
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Yes.

My wife has a few family members who live in the woods for weeks. They really do live off the land. My money is on them. The largest weapon they carry is a pocket knife.
Sure, let's say they can live in the woods for a month. But can they run more than a hundred yards without stopping? Are they healthy enough to survive without modern healthcare? I would put my money on a "city boy" who stays in shape over the typical American adult who can barely run far enough to reach the toilet and takes 5 meds to manage their diabetes and hypertension. There is much more to surviving than being able to live in the woods for a few weeks, or stockpiling guns and ammo.

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Old 09-05-2013, 20:17   #104
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I am reminded of some rocket scientists (yes real rocket scientists) I knew who would often come to work wearing two different color socks or shoes, or with their t-shirt inside out. And these guys were military officers.

They were good at what they did for a living though.

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i also know an actual rocket scientists . him and his wife are also our pets vet / moved here from florida and opened up animal hospital . and he is a cool guy and fun to talk too but he loses everything , cant file anything , and is just a mess lol they have 4 young boys and those boys are geniuses .
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:17   #105
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Sure, let's say they can live in the woods for a month. But can they run more than a hundred yards without stopping? Ok, Jason Bourne. They can do more than that. I have a pretty funny story about one and running and climbing a tree.Are they healthy enough to survive without modern healthcare? For now, yes.I would put my money on a "city boy" who stays in shape over the typical American adult who can barely run far enough to reach the toilet and takes 5 meds to manage their diabetes and hypertension. Some are city boys and one lives up in the hills.There is much more to surviving than being able to live in the woods for a few weeks.
So what is there more than living off the land for a few weeks?
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:29   #106
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I am not educated. Heck I'm a high school drop out. I have went back to college a few times in my life. And became very frustrated with the system. I paid good money to work twords a petrolatum engineering degree. And every damn time I go in I got ripped off. Some over educated idiot thought it was best to lecture on JFK or some facet of social engineering, or some other bull **** that had nothing to do with finding or producing oil. Over all it was about robbing you of money. I was working the patch. Owned oil lease's. I produced oil.

My doctor is fantastic. His only fault is he's a hardcore dumb-o-crat and loves the thought of Obummer care and is already structuring his practice twords the unknown. Given that issue he is a very smart and creative man. His son is also great. But he is not a walking over educated idiot like many today. He works on his own airplanes. Yes he has his credentials on avionics, air frame and power. Nobody touches his airplanes! He is like a dynamo concerning his brain and body. Bless his heart. His long term patients are as concern about his health is he is about ours. He's a great educator and a great learner.

For the last 13 years or so I have found out our college system is failing the country when it comes to mechanical, electrical and practical engineers. The old war horse's are retiring. The men and women that knew there craft are retiring and dying. The new up and comers don't know crap. They can't design anything and pay big money to cut and paste idea's into spec's and designs. The last three years I have refused to work with most of the firms and numb skulls that contact me in the industry I'm in now. I had a engineer send me drawings, specs and numbers on a job just yesterday. I haven't a clue where he got my name. And he did spec our equipment and our competitors. I took 30 mins of my day to look at his design. The volume of the building was wrong, the needed tonnage for the chillers was wrong. The output of the boiler was wrong, controls wrong the cooling towers wrong. This over educated idiot couldn't even size pipe or expansion tanks. No expansion joints, no seismic calculations. All trash! And this was his submitted design. He had P. E. after his name and stamped plans. I forwarded the request to the owner of the company and walked away. I've got real money to make. Not hold this idiots hand. And the sad thing is we waste so much time as a company holding these idiots hands. Of the 20 or so engineering firms we work with and the 30 or so lone shark engineers we also work with,,, only 5 or 6 individuals have a freaking clue.

What we are missing in this country is common sense. And work ethic. There is no craft anymore. Abstract thought and creativity is almost gone. Independence and responsibility is all but gone.

I have a ton of respect for those that produce and push the envelope of there fields. But the main stream over educated idiots are really a drain on our system.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:30   #107
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So what is there more than living off the land for a few weeks?
Being able to defend yourself and your family. And that means being healthy, not depending on medications to live. I'm happy this does not apply to your family members, but it is a fact of life for a lot of people. Your skills and stockpiles are useless if you are not physically fit enough to defend them.

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Old 09-05-2013, 20:32   #108
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An intelligent guy that is overweight and out of shape, can learn how to trap, skin and cook a squirrel. He can also learn how to lose weight and get in shape, in a relatively short period of time.

A stupid guy that knows how to trap, skin and cook a squirrel will not learn fast enough to survive in a rapidly changing environment. You know the phrase "stupid hurts", there is a reason for that.

I will put my money on the smart guy(top 5% of the population) every time in a survival situation over the stupid guy (bottom 5%).

If being strong was a lot more important than being smart, man would not be the dominant species on earth, the elephant or the whale would be.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:37   #109
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95% of American education is memorization and regurgitation. Hardly any critical thinking involved.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:37   #110
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Because: Being educated is not the same as being smart.


"An education isn't how much you have committed to memory, or even how much you know. It's being able to differentiate between what you know and what you don't." -Anatole France
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:42   #111
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An intelligent guy that is overweight and out of shape, can learn how to trap, skin and cook a squirrel. He can also learn how to lose weight and get in shape, in a relatively short period of time.

A stupid guy that knows how to trap, skin and cook a squirrel will not learn fast enough to survive in a rapidly changing environment. You know the phrase "stupid hurts", there is a reason for that.

I will put my money on the smart guy(top 5% of the population) every time in a survival situation over the stupid guy (bottom 5%).

If being strong was a lot more important than being smart, man would not be the dominant species on earth, the elephant or the whale would be.
I'm talking about being healthy, not being strong. If you are 100 lbs overweight (not uncommon), you are not exactly going to jump out of your chair and run 5 miles a day to lose weight. Certainly not with the hip or knee arthritis that you've worked up over the years. Point is, no matter how smart you are, losing weight is not easy. It's not going to happen "relatively quick." And if you depend on medication to survive, you are likely not going to make it in a post-SHTF world, even if you can trap and cook a squirrel.

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Old 09-05-2013, 20:49   #112
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His conclusions are empirically correct in so far as that they are based on his observations and experience. For him, they are verifiable in that he is cognitively superior to the majority of physicians, is academically accomplished with degrees from MIT, Harvard and Oxford (the later being the result of an international fellowship) and has found a fit with people who are his intellectual equals. Equally important, in his current position, his output has a more global impact than if he were a doctor and thus benefits more people.
No. It doesnt work that way. There is no detail you can present about his intelligence that will make his observations about doctors correct. He is factually wrong as you tell the story. I called you out on that fact alone. There is nothing you can do to become "right" with the claim you made.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:51   #113
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Viewpoint is important; you may have found it challenging to be in med school. He did not.
Negative. Viewpoint can not change statistical truths.

Again, there is no detail about his abilities that can change math.
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:54   #114
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Rabbi this wouldn't have anything to do with you being just a tad bias would it?
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Old 09-05-2013, 20:55   #115
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Rabbi this wouldn't have anything to do with you being just a tad bias would it?
My bias can not change the math. It doesnt matter who the messenger is. This has nothing to do with me. People who try to make it about the messenger are the people who are upset because there is no place to insert their feelings into a math problem.
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:03   #116
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At no point did I suggest that he dropped out of medical school. He was in a MD/Ph.D program at Harvard Medical School and elected to continue in a doctorate program alone at HMS that better suited him.

In so doing he Masloved out while not suffering monetarily for his decision.
Harvard Medical School (HMS) does not grant PhDs. The various other schools of Harvard do, in general, The Graduate School of Arts and Sciences at Harvard or MIT(which for those who dont know is not actually Harvard.)

Second, in pretty much every case, the first two years of Medical School are done first before PhD work.

The story does not make sense.
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I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

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Old 09-05-2013, 21:11   #117
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95% of American education is memorization and regurgitation. Hardly any critical thinking involved.
That is simply not how graduate level education works and in general not how upper level bachelors courses work.

The entire awarding of an advanced degree almost always depends on being able to produce original work or research. The exception being a terminal professional degree but even then critical thinking is the entire philosophy of what you do with the tools(all that stuff you must memorize) they provide.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon

Last edited by Rabbi; 09-05-2013 at 21:39..
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:19   #118
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I'm talking about being healthy, not being strong. If you are 100 lbs overweight (not uncommon), you are not exactly going to jump out of your chair and run 5 miles a day to lose weight. Certainly not with the hip or knee arthritis that you've worked up over the years. Point is, no matter how smart you are, losing weight is not easy. It's not going to happen "relatively quick." And if you depend on medication to survive, you are likely not going to make it in a post-SHTF world, even if you can trap and cook a squirrel.
Actually depending on the medicine you are on being intelligent and educated can help you survive, as you may be able to make use of a reasonable substitute.

My point stands, being intelligent or intelligent and educated will win out over being stupid or stupid and uneducated in race to survive.

As to weight, assuming you don't have a debilitating condition will allow you to survive longer, if you have run out of supplies. It will give more time to learn the resources that are available and how to benefit from them.

If you are healthy, and have a 6% body fat, the number of days you can survive and function without food is far less than if you are healthy enough and have a 30% body fat.

You can lose half a pound of fat a day on a very low calorie diet, say 500 calories. A man with 30% body could live for maybe 90 days on that. A fit man with 6% body fat would probably not last 21 days.

You have gone off the topic of intelligence.

Will you have a better chance of survival if you are intelligent and fit versus intelligent and on daily medications to live, of course.

However, if you are stupid and fit, you are not long for this world if things go really sideways. Stupid kills you faster in bad situations.
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Old 09-05-2013, 21:27   #119
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I am not educated. Heck I'm a high school drop out. I have went back to college a few times in my life. And became very frustrated with the system. I paid good money to work twords a petrolatum engineering degree. And every damn time I go in I got ripped off. Some over educated idiot thought it was best to lecture on JFK or some facet of social engineering, or some other bull **** that had nothing to do with finding or producing oil. Over all it was about robbing you of money. I was working the patch. Owned oil lease's. I produced oil.

My doctor is fantastic. His only fault is he's a hardcore dumb-o-crat and loves the thought of Obummer care and is already structuring his practice twords the unknown. Given that issue he is a very smart and creative man. His son is also great. But he is not a walking over educated idiot like many today. He works on his own airplanes. Yes he has his credentials on avionics, air frame and power. Nobody touches his airplanes! He is like a dynamo concerning his brain and body. Bless his heart. His long term patients are as concern about his health is he is about ours. He's a great educator and a great learner.

For the last 13 years or so I have found out our college system is failing the country when it comes to mechanical, electrical and practical engineers. The old war horse's are retiring. The men and women that knew there craft are retiring and dying. The new up and comers don't know crap. They can't design anything and pay big money to cut and paste idea's into spec's and designs. The last three years I have refused to work with most of the firms and numb skulls that contact me in the industry I'm in now. I had a engineer send me drawings, specs and numbers on a job just yesterday. I haven't a clue where he got my name. And he did spec our equipment and our competitors. I took 30 mins of my day to look at his design. The volume of the building was wrong, the needed tonnage for the chillers was wrong. The output of the boiler was wrong, controls wrong the cooling towers wrong. This over educated idiot couldn't even size pipe or expansion tanks. No expansion joints, no seismic calculations. All trash! And this was his submitted design. He had P. E. after his name and stamped plans. I forwarded the request to the owner of the company and walked away. I've got real money to make. Not hold this idiots hand. And the sad thing is we waste so much time as a company holding these idiots hands. Of the 20 or so engineering firms we work with and the 30 or so lone shark engineers we also work with,,, only 5 or 6 individuals have a freaking clue.

What we are missing in this country is common sense. And work ethic. There is no craft anymore. Abstract thought and creativity is almost gone. Independence and responsibility is all but gone.

I have a ton of respect for those that produce and push the envelope of there fields. But the main stream over educated idiots are really a drain on our system.
Have at it, boys. HH
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Old 09-05-2013, 22:10   #120
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Garbage. How long was he involved before dropping out? Most people who dropped out of my class, did so in the first couple of weeks. You can't possibly believe that he didn't find it challenging enough. It may not have been what he expected or he quickly realized that it is not for him, but I promise you that med school being too easy was not the reason.

I have a masters in biochemistry. It was 2 years of classes + research. If I wanted a PhD, it would have been about another 2 years of mainly research. Believe me, medical school is more challenging, stressful, and time consuming.
You have an impressive academic credential and I'm sure that you worked hard to achieve it. The issue that we all have in viewing a problem is that we tend do it from our own prospective, personal limitations included. Sometimes one has to concede that another might actually be smarter than we are. There are some who breezed through medical school.

Referring to my original post and at the risk of branding my friend an intellectual elitist, it was not the medical curricula, which he found rather mechanical, at Harvard that bored him; it was his colleagues. It was he that quipped that he found most doctors not to be that intelligent - more like savants with exceptional rote memorization skills.

While I'm sure that I would be completely engrossed in the company of doctors; dinner with my friend is intellectually fatiguing for me in that he engages me on so many levels. It's like reading a book by John Stuart Mill - we are taught to make transitions between paragraphs, Mill makes his between pages and we are expected to retain the thought in the interim.

It's awkward referring to him as my friend rather than by his first name, but by combining his academic history, with the prominence of his international fellowship to Oxford and his prominent position at a Fortune 50 company, I have come dangerously close the providing enough information for the inquisitive to identify him.

In the final analysis, the course that he has chosen worked well for him, he is 32, has no college debt due to scholarships and corporate sponsorship...and I just helped him spec out a new Mercedes S63 AMG Sedan.
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Old 09-05-2013, 22:15   #121
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I heart Rabbi's comments. I have learned a great deal from him, and I've learned to learn from him.

I hold a doctorate of pharmacology. I spent years researching and compounding medicines. My memorization skills are terrible (relatively). I had a girlfriend in school that would study three times less than me and make three times better grades. Her memorization skills were amazing (this made arguments in our relationship very difficult for me). That said, she was foolish and stupid. She had few logical skills, and no life skills. She drank herself to the point of vomiting every weekend and never learned better. She was very good at some logical things, and very bad at others... while I considered myself simply "decent" at many things. This seemed to be the norm in school. I was surrounded by a group of people whom I considered fools--that got better grades than me. To be fair, I did not know them intimately. Some were geniuses on many levels who surpassed my expectations of what the human mind is capable of. Most were not. I still try to figure out what type of intelligence this is. Maybe it was my field, maybe my perception. Regardless, I can't figure how a person capable of getting into a school admits less than 2% of qualified applicants, mostly based on grades, can harbor such illogical fools.
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Old 09-05-2013, 22:24   #122
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Harvard Medical School (HMS) does not grant PhDs. The various other schools of Harvard do, in general, The Graduate School of Arts and Sciences at Harvard or MIT(which for those who dont know is not actually Harvard.)

Second, in pretty much every case, the first two years of Medical School are done first before PhD work.

The story does not make sense.
That's absurd - not only are there diverse MD/Ph.D programs at HMS, but there are a number of Ph.D programs in various disciplines, the oldest of which is in Neuroscience. Looking through my daughter's HBS yearbook I also see that a number of those in MD/Ph.D programs were also picking up a MBA along the way.
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Old 09-05-2013, 22:31   #123
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Ha! Ha! I've been texting with my friend as I participated in this forum. He just suggested that physicians are very highly paid factory workers, working on repeatable processes.

That's pretty funny, and why yes, he's a cynic.
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Old 09-05-2013, 22:31   #124
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That's absurd - not only are there diverse MD/Ph.D programs at HMS, but there are a number of Ph.D programs in various disciplines, the oldest of which is in Neuroscience. Looking through my daughter's HBS yearbook I also see that a number of those in MD/Ph.D programs were also picking up a MBA along the way.
HMS does NOT grant the PhD. My statement is correct.

HMS doesnt grant MBA's either.

Here is where you apply to the Neuroscience program

http://www.hms.harvard.edu/dms/neuro...dmissions.html

Clicking the link takes you here.

https://app.applyyourself.com/AYAppl...n.asp?id=hgsas

The degree is granted by the Harvard School of Arts and Sciences.
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In the world to come, each of us will be called to account for all the good things G-d put on earth which we refused to enjoy. ~ The Babylonian Talmud

Whenever you get mad as hell about it all, grab your rifle and head outside. If you are the only one there...it's not time yet

I cross my heart and hope not to die. Swallow evil, ride the sky. Lose myself in a crowded room. You fool, you fool, it will be here soon
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Old 09-05-2013, 22:36   #125
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HMS does NOT grant the PhD. My statement is correct.

HMS doesnt grant MBA's either.

Here is where you apply to the Neuroscience program

http://www.hms.harvard.edu/dms/neuro...dmissions.html

Clicking the link takes you here.

https://app.applyyourself.com/AYAppl...n.asp?id=hgsas

The degree is granted by the Harvard School of Arts and Sciences.

http://hms.harvard.edu/departments/m...egree-programs
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