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Old 09-07-2013, 13:58   #151
donovan655
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Originally Posted by WarCry View Post
Actually, you completely miss the point (though I think that's intentional).
Another assumption...to go along with this one..

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Based on that, what do you think the first officer on site should assume? "Well, the guy with gun is PROBABLY a good guy, CCW holder, so I'll just stroll up and ask how his night's going......"
I think you are simply trying to over-argue something that we both agree on.

You made the initial assumption that I was being ridiculous.

I shot one back at you...reductio ad absurdum...

We can keep playing your stupid shell game, or we can both understand that we both agree.

Lord have mercy...


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What I posted doesn't tell you at all whether the guy with the gun is a good guy or a bad guy. And that's likely what the police are going to have to work with when the arrive on a scene.

If you see two guys, one on the ground, one standing over him with a gun, and you don't know who's who, you would never, ever take for granted that the guy with the gun is a good guy. That's a good way to get someone killed. You treat everyone like a bad guy until you get it sorted out. That might mean cuffs, that might mean being planted face-first on the ground.
I totally agree with this.

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And I firmly believe anyone that thinks police should act differently are just being willfully stupid.
Never said I did.
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Old 09-07-2013, 14:00   #152
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Originally Posted by countrygun View Post
I will go on the assumption that you answer to my question about experience is "None" then?

Hard to explain to someone who expects solutions to situations they don't have experience with.

Unless you can get the bad guys to wear black hats and the good guys to wear white ones and turn all the cops into "Robocop" you are dealing with very fluid and very inconsistent situations. It is impossible to sit at a computer and create firm and consistent rules for that.

As a society we have fooled ourselves into thinking we can write rules that will take the human element out of life.

There are no "solutions" to some things in life.


ok.
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Old 09-08-2013, 09:13   #153
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So the training for a CHL (in the eyes of Mr. McCarthy) is designed and meant to give the candidate the same level of LAW ENFORCEMENT training that Police officers undergo? Because an officer's training covers a whole lot more than safe firearm handling and such... It's not "6 weeks of training and go be a cop", it's 6 weeks of constant drilling safety rules into the candidates head until they become second nature; in that respect, IL's CHL program seems to offer the most comprehensive training out of any state and therefore I feel that Mr. McCarthy should be VERY glad about that specific fact if he's so worried about his citizens' ability to posses and carry firearms.

Now take PA for example; no training required in order to obtain a CHL, yet we don't see what Mr. McCarthy predicts will happen in IL in large cities like Pittsburgh.

I guess Mr. McCarthy just has a lot of unfounded fears, perhaps the way he was raised.
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Old 09-08-2013, 11:59   #154
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Another one bit the dust here in the west coast of Florida. Drunk, stupid and shooting his guns in his back yard. Past midnight playing music loud. Cops called. Guy steps out on porch with 44mag revolver. Cops tell him to put it down. He did and reached in the door for a lever action rifle and aimed it at the cops. Now if it were you, would you aerate the guy or stand there and plead with him to not shoot you with his rifle? I kinda doubt the latter. Cops shouldn't be expected to get shot first either.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:15   #155
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Originally Posted by donovan655 View Post


ok.
Plenty of people are giving you opinions based on real life experience. Bottom line, it is rare for a situation involving a fluid life threatening event to come out with clear and concise details so that everyone "knows" what is going on before they get there. It is a fact.
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Old 09-08-2013, 12:18   #156
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It happens, but it doesn't happen very often. Even in States where they've had "shall issue" for years it has happened only rarely.

But the fact that it happens at all should make every CCW think and act carefully anytime they have a gun in their hand in public.

OTOH, I expect there have been numerous instances where an off-duty cop or CCW has successfully followed the commands of the responding officers they weren't so bloodthirsty as to shoot him for the fun of it. [/SARCASM]

Regards,
Happyguy
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:06   #157
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I think he was just saying that CCW holders are going to have to use extreme caution if the gun is visible to a police officer. Right now the cops just assume that everyone with a gun is a criminal cause they are (pre CCW law).
I just hope for the sake of CCW holders that if they are defending themselves and a police officer sees the gun they ask for them to put it down rather than shooting first. Also the CCW holder realizes its a cop and doesnt point it at him if confronted immediately after a self defense situation.
I guess this wouldnt be any different than in other states that have had the CCW law for decades...as long as the cops dont get trigger happy we all win

Last edited by boose88; 09-08-2013 at 17:07..
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Old 09-08-2013, 17:10   #158
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Originally Posted by Glockworks View Post
Now wait a minute, janitors I might trust with a gun, this dummy needs a job befitting his ability to think. Do they have Colonels in the Chicago Police force? He could maybe attain the position of Colonel of the Urinal. Thus he could be supervised by a janitor and help keep Chicago safe and clean at the same time.
I wouldn't trust him running a Kentucky Fried Chicken
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Old 09-08-2013, 18:23   #159
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Originally Posted by boose88 View Post
I think he was just saying that CCW holders are going to have to use extreme caution if the gun is visible to a police officer. Right now the cops just assume that everyone with a gun is a criminal cause they are (pre CCW law).
I just hope for the sake of CCW holders that if they are defending themselves and a police officer sees the gun they ask for them to put it down rather than shooting first. Also the CCW holder realizes its a cop and doesnt point it at him if confronted immediately after a self defense situation.
I guess this wouldnt be any different than in other states that have had the CCW law for decades...as long as the cops dont get trigger happy we all win

You think that's all he was saying? Did you read this part?

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You say concealed carry I say Trayvon Martin. Police officers make mistakes all the time,” McCarthy said. “We spend six months in the police academy, six months of field training and ongoing training on a regular basis and the fact is once in a while we’re going to shoot someone with a cellphone; we’re going to shoot somebody with a flashlight and none of that is okay. But now you take John Q. Civilian, you give them six weeks or 10 weeks of training and you say ‘have at it?’ The fact is more guns are not the solution to the firearm gun violence problem in this country. Less guns and reasonable gun laws are. And just because it’s 49 states to one doesn’t mean the state of Illinois is wrong on that one.” - See more at: http://gunsnfreedom.com/chicago-poli....oAOrid6s.dpuf
This guy doesn't want anyone carrying except gov employees. His agenda has nothing to do with protecting CCW holders.
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Old 09-08-2013, 20:59   #160
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The fact is more guns if history out side of Chicago which by the way has some of the most draconian gun laws on the books will equal less crime. John Lott has done extensive research on this. Also when we as the general public stop putting all cops up on some special pedestal and hold bad cops to account. We hear about Ohio cop Daniel Harless rant and find he has a history of rants yet get's his job back. We have a Texas DPS trooper do a road side body cavity search on not one but two women fired, criminal charges filed but the senior trooper accused of stealing pharmaceuticals and called for and allowed the road side probe keeps his job. We need civilian oversight on all complaints not an in-house Eric Holder well investigate ourselves approach.
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:02   #161
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Originally Posted by dcc12 View Post
The fact is more guns if history out side of Chicago which by the way has some of the most draconian gun laws on the books will equal less crime. John Lott has done extensive research on this. Also when we as the general public stop putting all cops up on some special pedestal and hold bad cops to account. We hear about Ohio cop Daniel Harless rant and find he has a history of rants yet get's his job back. We have a Texas DPS trooper do a road side body cavity search on not one but two women fired, criminal charges filed but the senior trooper accused of stealing pharmaceuticals and called for and allowed the road side probe keeps his job. We need civilian oversight on all complaints not an in-house Eric Holder well investigate ourselves approach.
Dude, punctuate.
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Old 09-08-2013, 21:33   #162
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Nah guys, I'm pretty sure they're just instituting free fire zones across the area of operations for the Chicago Police Department.

Ragnar:
Great quote.

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Old 09-08-2013, 21:56   #163
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Originally Posted by ray9898 View Post
Plenty of people are giving you opinions based on real life experience. Bottom line, it is rare for a situation involving a fluid life threatening event to come out with clear and concise details so that everyone "knows" what is going on before they get there. It is a fact.
You're are right and the people posting here about how the police should know what's going on and not shoot, have never had a gun pointed at them or reacted to an emergency inolving strangers. I have. The last time I chambered a round and prepared to shoot a probable "good guy" was less than 24 hours ago - I knew him and knew why he was apparently carrying the gun (he is usually unarmed), but if he'd drawn it, he'd be dead.
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Old 09-09-2013, 09:09   #164
boose88
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Originally Posted by RagnarDanneskjold View Post
This guy doesn't want anyone carrying except gov employees. His agenda has nothing to do with protecting CCW holders.
I did read that. I am not saying that I disagree with you because I do not think more laws and less guns reduce crime like he says but the police as an entire group i have more faith in. Yeah idk why, just feel there are still good people out there who dont wanna just shoot someone.
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